DCC RPG beta this Wed
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Post Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:58 pm 
 

smarmy1 wrote:  My son talked about the game the entire trip home and even felt some remorse at killing Martin's fighter twice.  I told him not to worry; it was just Martin. ;)


NEVER feel remorse at killing Martin as many times as necessary to put the bastard down!!!  :D

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Post Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:11 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:
NEVER feel remorse at killing Martin as many times as necessary to put the bastard down!!!  :D

Mike B.


After he turned on the party and swore fealty to the King of the Hunt, horns started growing out of Martin's character's head.  What else could we do with such an abomination other than kill him??? ;)

The King of the Hunt not pleased with our actions and decided to raise our fallen comrade as some kind of zombie-warrior.  Our move... Rinse, lather, repeat, and down goes Martin a second time.... :)

Good times were had by all.


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:20 am 
 

I'm glad to see that it is pretty much a 1e clone. Any modules should be easy conversions. Artwork is fantastic. Hopefully it will be greatly successful and launch an entirely new series of DCC modules in the same vein, mono module format, blue maps (small, small stat blocks).

The artwork alone will be worth purchasing the rulebook, but I hope they throw in a module or two with it.


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:28 am 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:I'm glad to see that it is pretty much a 1e clone.


I think it's much closer to B/X than 1e.


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:34 am 
 

TheHistorian wrote:
I think it's much closer to B/X than 1e.


I agree. Race-as-class is a deal breaker for me. Not to mention I have no interest in flipping through a hundred pages of spell tables to find out what happens when my PC casts a spell.

Frankly, I'm puzzled about all the excitement surrounding this thing. The artwork doesn't thrill me (seems like a lot of it is tribute stuff, which is cute but doesn't do anything for me), the beta rules alone are 150+ pages long (how long is the final product gonna be?!). I haven't read the document in-depth, but it seems to be trying to steer a middle road between d20 and "OSR", which I think is a mistake, and will end up pleasing neither side.


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:24 am 
 

MetamorphosisSigma wrote:Race-as-class is a deal breaker for me.

I've never really understood why something like this is a deal breaker for some people.  Dont like it?  Dont use it.

MetamorphosisSigma wrote:Not to mention I have no interest in flipping through a hundred pages of spell tables to find out what happens when my PC casts a spell.

I really enjoyed using the tables for crits and fumbles.  It added a nice bit of extra fun to the game.  The guys that had spell using characters didnt comment during the game but for me it does make some sense.  Magic is considered powerful energy and is chaotic in nature.  Sometimes it doesnt quite go the way you expect.

MetamorphosisSigma wrote:The artwork doesn't thrill me

Wow...you're hard to please.  I thought most of the artwork was fantastic.  I only noticed a few "tribute" pieces and appreciated their use.

MetamorphosisSigma wrote:the beta rules alone are 150+ pages long (how long is the final product gonna be?!).

Still much shorter than the Pathfinder (400+) beta was.

MetamorphosisSigma wrote:but it seems to be trying to steer a middle road between d20 and "OSR", which I think is a mistake, and will end up pleasing neither side.


Maybe you are right about it not pleasing anyone.  But it may end up working out better than you expect.  I noticed quite a few people that normally play Pathfinder or D&D 3.5 attend the convention last week.  I played with several in a couple of 1E games.  All of them seemed to enjoy the games and commented afterwards that they didnt know much about 1E and really liked the streamlined rules.  I think its these people that are the general target for this game.  The OSR stuff isnt readily available in stores which is where a lot of these people go to buy games.  They see Pathfinder or D&D and that is what they buy.  If DCC is marketed properly and has a presence in game stores it may do well.

If there is one thing that is a negative for me about the game, its that it will be sold as a hardback book instead of a proper box set.  Put it in a box set with an adventure, character sheets, and a set of dice and you have a winner in my book.


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:15 am 
 

D20 + Old School = exactly what I am looking for.  I will DL this and give it a read.

  


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:33 am 
 

Kingofpain89 wrote:
If there is one thing that is a negative for me about the game, its that it will be sold as a hardback book instead of a proper box set.  Put it in a box set with an adventure, character sheets, and a set of dice and you have a winner in my book.


100% agree with this.

  


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:42 am 
 

Kingofpain89 wrote:If there is one thing that is a negative for me about the game, its that it will be sold as a hardback book instead of a proper box set.  Put it in a box set with an adventure, character sheets, and a set of dice and you have a winner in my book.


I'm with you 100% on this one. There is still some internal discussion on this point, but yeah, I'd love to see it as a box set.

Re: Pleasing everyone. Definitely not going to happen. And that's okay. There are any number of awesome original games and clones. Hopefully folks enjoy the DCC RPG and the host of new adventures we have planned, but if not, we can still dice together at the cons.

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Post Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:23 pm 
 

MetamorphosisSigma wrote:I agree. Race-as-class is a deal breaker for me.


For me, it's the d7 and d14.  Everything else we can simulate on two dice ( e.g. d16 = d8 with d6 control die: 1-3 +0, 4-6 +8 ), but there is no clean way to roll a d7 (because it's a prime number), and no, rolling a d8 and rerolling 12.5% of the time doesn't work for me.  It seems unnecessary - either one more idea could have been come up with each time ( d8 ) or a bit more editing would have done it ( d6 ).  I ended my extensive WFRP playing/collecting before 3E, when they added specialty dice to the game.  With a d6, d8, and d20, I can generate every commonly required roll!

Scanning through the rules to this, and to be completely fair, many if not all of the OSR rule sets, I can't help but feel that they are largely reorganizations and house rules of ODD/BX/BECMI or ADD1/ADD2.  That's fine, but I don't know how many times I need to buy variations on rules... I have stacks of Dragon magazine articles for that!  :)  And it's not even my preferred ruleset these days... maybe I've gotten lazy, but BRP has everything I need; grab some percentiles and you're off to the races!

My actual deal breaker is the playing multiple characters concept.  I'm more interested in character development when I play, and trying to invest in multiple characters just won't work that way.  It's more akin to wargaming or videogaming or something like that.  Nothing wrong with that sensibility, just not my cup of tea.

I think the art and presentation are very good, and there are some creative ideas to be used.

The adventures to come, however... now those could be very interesting!


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:46 pm 
 

TheHistorian wrote:...
My actual deal breaker is the playing multiple characters concept.  I'm more interested in character development when I play, and trying to invest in multiple characters just won't work that way.  It's more akin to wargaming or videogaming or something like that.  Nothing wrong with that sensibility, just not my cup of tea.
...


Did you ever play multiple characters in the past? I can remember playing 2 at a time back in the day...just not that often.

I think the "funnel" (page 10 in the pdf) idea is a pretty good starting point. I don't think the idea is to always play multiple characters, but to give you a choice on which "surviving" character(s) you want to play from lvl1+. Lets say 2 survice past 0 level. Do you have to play both at the same time? No. You can take one or the other (or both) on the next adventure just like you took 3-4 on the first adventure. On the other hand, you can just roll 1 if you want instead of the 2-4 recommended at lvl 0, but don't expect a single character to survive very long.

As with all my posts...just my 2 cents

  

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Post Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:17 pm 
 

KingofPain wrote:Wow...you're hard to please.  I thought most of the artwork was fantastic.  I only noticed a few "tribute" pieces and appreciated their use.


I'm not all that hard to please, and I'd probably play the game if someone else refereed and I didn't have to read and digest the rulebook. I'm just hard to sell to. As someone else said, I just don't need yet another gaming product which reinterprets D&D for me.

The artwork doesn't work for me not because I don't like the style, which is fine. It just screams "derivative", which feels cheap to me. Even the few pieces by artists from bitd (LaForce, Otus) don't seem especially inspired. I'm a firm believer that you can never go home again, and unfortunately in this case home is 1980.

KingofPain wrote:  
Still much shorter than the Pathfinder (400+) beta was.


Wow, really? I've never looked at Pathfinder (mostly because I detest the cover art on the books I've seen.. okay, so I am kinda hard to please).


I'm totally with you on the boxed set thing. Saddle-stitched books are so much easier to use at the table. Thick hardcovers won't lay flat without breaking the spines, especially the new glued ones.


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:20 pm 
 

Harley Stroh wrote:
I'm with you 100% on this one. There is still some internal discussion on this point, but yeah, I'd love to see it as a box set.

Re: Pleasing everyone. Definitely not going to happen. And that's okay. There are any number of awesome original games and clones. Hopefully folks enjoy the DCC RPG and the host of new adventures we have planned, but if not, we can still dice together at the cons.

//H


Boxed set with an adventure (or two). I've never had trouble converting B/X modules to 1e and from reading through the DCC beta I think it will be much easier converting this system to 1e than it was to convert 3.x modules. What I am really hoping for is a line of new DCC modules using this system.

I know that if the rules are released as a hardback I will have to think about buying it, but as a boxed set with an adventure I would definitely buy it.


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:23 pm 
 

I think a saddle-stitched set of rules would work best for this game.  If the rules have to be too long for that, break it into two books and put it in a cardboard box.

I am not a big fan of the big price that goes with a hardback...but maybe a box would be the same price.... :?


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:54 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:I've never had trouble converting B/X modules to 1e and from reading through the DCC beta I think it will be much easier converting this system to 1e than it was to convert 3.x modules. What I am really hoping for is a line of new DCC modules using this system.


I agree with your assessment. And yes, we are already hard at work on the module line.

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Post Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:08 pm 
 

TheHistorian wrote:For me, it's the d7 and d14.

Spend a few dollars for a pair of d7s, one Zocchi pack (d3, d5, d14, d16, d24), and one d30, and you'll have a lifetime's supply of each.  Done and done.  :D

  

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Post Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:48 am 
 

TheHistorian wrote:For me, it's the d7 and d14.  Everything else we can simulate on two dice ( e.g. d16 = d8 with d6 control die: 1-3 +0, 4-6 +8 ), but there is no clean way to roll a d7 (because it's a prime number), and no, rolling a d8 and rerolling 12.5% of the time doesn't work for me.  

Years ago, as an exercise, I created a die chart.

Ever had a problem where you would create a table for an RPG, and just couldn't fill the last few slots, or only wanted a certain number of possible results?  

The following table will show you what dice to roll to get a result of 1 -- X, where X is the number in the die type on the left. When there are several possible ways, just use the one you wish to use, as all the possible combinations require the least amount of dice as possible for the result number.  (NOTE: these methods do not yield results in a linear curve such as  rolling a single die with the appropriate number of sides, unless only one die is rolled.)

d3 and d5 couldn't be simulated using the program I used to generate the chart. I have provided a solution below. It works, but I can understand why the program I used couldn't generate such a solution.

d3 = 1d6/2. round up
d5 = 1d20/4, round up or 1d10/2, round up (thanks to Sardan for the d10 version)
d7 = 2d4-1
d14 = (1d8+2d4)-2 or (2d6+1d4)-2
d16 = 3d6-2
d24 = (1d10+2d8)-2 or (2d10+1d6)-2
d30 = (1d20+2d6)-2, (1d12+2d10)-2, or (2d12+1d8)-2


Harley, you might want to think about modifying the advice given in the Funky Dice section to incorporate this stuff.




Last edited by Traveller on Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  

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Post Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:15 am 
 

What sort of gamer doesn't like bizarre dice, convoluted math or overly complex charts?

I mean, that's half the fun, right?  :?:


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:01 am 
 

Surely a d3 and d5 are both easy.  d3 is a d6 but if the result is 4-6 subtract three.  d5 is a d10 but if the result is 6-10 subtract 5.

An easy alternative is:

d3

1,2 = 1
3,4 = 2
5,6 = 3

d5

1,2 = 1
3,4 = 2
5,6 = 3
7,8 = 4
9,0 = 5

  


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:38 am 
 

Traveller wrote:Years ago, as an exercise, I created a die chart.

Ever had a problem where you would create a table for an RPG, and just couldn't fill the last few slots, or only wanted a certain number of possible results?  

The following table will show you what dice to roll to get a result of 1 -- X, where X is the number in the die type on the left. When there are several possible ways, just use the one you wish to use, as all the possible combinations require the least amount of dice as possible for the result number.  (NOTE: these methods do not yield results in a linear curve such as  rolling a single die with the appropriate number of sides, unless only one die is rolled.)

d3 and d5 couldn't be simulated using the program I used to generate the chart. I have provided a solution below. It works, but I can understand why the program I used couldn't generate such a solution.

d3 = 1d6/2. round up
d5 = 1d20/4, round up
d7 = 2d4-1
d14 = (1d8+2d4)-2 or (2d6+1d4)-2
d16 = 3d6-2
d24 = (1d10+2d8)-2 or (2d10+1d6)-2
d30 = (1d20+2d6)-2, (1d12+2d10)-2, or (2d12+1d8)-2


Harley, you might want to think about modifying the advice given in the Funky Dice section to incorporate this stuff.


Thank you, Traveller. I think you're right, dice work arounds would make a good appendix.

//H

  
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