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Post Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:15 pm 
 

Keith the Thief wrote:
Given that it's 400 ppg, I'd suggest a hardcover version.

I printed a good chunk of the PDF and that many pages is unwieldy without sturdy backing.

The hardcover price ($25) seems quite good for a book that contains PHB, MM & DMG.  It is 1E AD&D.


Thanks for the tip, I've managed to have a dig around on the Lulu site (it wasn't in the early searches and the B&W Hardcover is only £22 with shipping!  :)


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Post Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:44 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:
No RPG is without faults or weak points.

Pathfinder has the same shortcomings as D&D 3.5:

1)  Complex rules...because the rules are usually quite excruciatingly clear, there are technical terms to learn or look up.  

(For instance:  You find a ring that increases your armor class by +3.  Is that a morale bonus, magical bonus, deflection bonus, armor bonus, luck bonus, cover bonus or concealment bonus?  It matters because different types of bonuses "stack" and the same type of bonus generally does not "stack."  Also, concealment is completely different from cover.)

(For instance:  Your character is engulfed in a horrendous cloud of gas and fails his saving throw.  Have you been nauseated, stunned, shaken, panicked, paralyzed or fatigued?  Each of these terms means something specific.)

[Depends on the pizza toppings.]

DM's used to make these sorts of rulings on the fly.  In D&D 3.5/Pathfinder these effects are described in the rules.

2)  Interconnected rules...so you have to be careful when you make house rulings.  The effects can be more than you expected.

I do use some house rules.  Sometimes, my players "forget" the house rules as we have agreed upon them.  They insist I am wrong.  My response is to immediately begin enforcing the rules as written until the players remember why we made the original house rule and say "uncle."  

3)  Because the rules are more complex, it is more annoying when the DM varies from them during play.

At PaizoCon, my character was adventuring in the module Entombed with the Pharaohs.  A mummy-thing walked around a corner in the pyramid tomb complex...it moaned, causing some of us to panic...it fired three arrows...all in one surprise action.  That is not possible in 3.5/Pathfinder.  The mummy can do one of those three actions in a surprise action (walk, moan or shoot)...and it could only fire one arrow if shooting the bow was its choice.  Several of our NPC's were downed and half the party was panicked before we could react.  This was irritating.

In AD&D, the DM would say, "This is my game.  I am God.  Shut up."  An argument would then ensue.

In 3.5/Pathfinder, the argument is already presumed to be settled and the DM is wiser to follow the letter of the rules.

(The classic response to this is, "In my game I just told the players that I was boss.  Like it or leave."  Really?  Where is your gaming group now?  Arguments over game rulings sank far more AD&D campaigns than angry mothers, fundamentalist preachers or Chick tracts combined.)

4)  Because the rules are complex, in-game rulings are more of a shared responsibility between DM and players.

In the instance I have used as an example above, the DM did in fact make a god-like ruling.  He ruled automatically that we were surprised.  Aside from the fact that we were already on the alert, and the appearance of a mummy in a pyramid tomb is not particularly surprising, there was supposed to be a chance to "spot" the mummy before it surprised us.  Not being surprised is one of the benefits of being...for instance...a ranger.

Every player at the table was more expert in the rules than that DM.  We looked at each other (we were all strangers), shrugged and went on.  My own gaming group would have pointed out the rules problem.  They would have let the spot versus surprise ruling go, but no way could the mummy take all three actions.  I would have agreed and had the mummy just walk around the corner.

No game is perfect.  I like to play Axis and Allies on my computer.  As soon as the computer starts to lose it begins to cheat hellaciously on the dice rolls.  I point out the laws of probability to my computer, but it never listens or gives in.  

Last night, playing the final scenario of Close Combat, A Bridge Too Far (which is essentially computerized Squad Leader), a German assault gun knocked out three of my tanks.  My tanks could not trace line of sight to the German armored vehicle, which was concealed by a small shell hole, but the German somehow had no problem seeing my tanks.  Go figure.


Agreed: Leadership's required to run a great game; otherwise trust evaporates because the ground rules change (a classic no-no for any fantasy storyteller).

In our games now, we pretty much share the rules-knowledge, and DM domination styles are avoided, since everyone "owns" the game.

Funny how a journey through the Nine Hells or the Abyss can be so democratic.

Thanks for your thoughtful response. All things being equal (Pathfinder/3.5 WotC D&D), I think I'll give PF a shot.
<smile>

  


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Post Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:45 pm 
 

I hope you like it, Puterdragon! :D

  

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Post Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:15 pm 
 

Is there a "Pathfinder for Dumbasses" site out there?

Googling "Pathfinder tutorial", "how to play Pathfinder", etc, is not yielding any good hits.

akp


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Post Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:21 pm 
 

No, but there is this which Pathfinder simply adds to or modifies. The vast majority should be applicable.


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:14 pm 
 

Does Paizo publish a mega-dungeon for Pathfinder?

Several such dungeons were discussed on another thread, but not one specifically for PF.

akp


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:18 pm 
 

They haven't done so yet. However, there is supposed to be one under the city of Kaer Maga. I'm not sure which books would have some info about it, though.

  

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:19 pm 
 

Pathfinder does a thing called an "adventure path." There are, apparently, eight (8) of them....

Link

I cannot attest to the quality as I am not interested in Pathfinder.


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:43 pm 
 

astenon wrote:I hope you like it, Puterdragon! :D


Well, I picked up the four copies I had placed on hold:
#1, #4, #6, #8. Mint cond. for a total of $40 (no tax, no s&h).
<happy>
I've only skimmed them at this point, but they look very interesting. Of course, I'll be looking to complete the Rise of the Rune Lords (#2, #3, #5) to start with. Skinsaw Murders sounds like the most interesting one of this series.
I haven't bought the PF Core Rulebook yet. But the seller has a first printing. I wonder how collectable it would be. Does anyone know?

  


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:52 pm 
 

serleran wrote:Pathfinder does a thing called an "adventure path." There are, apparently, eight (8) of them....

Link

I cannot attest to the quality as I am not interested in Pathfinder.


Thanks for this link. Very helpful for sorting out how the APs work together to form the six-module sets. I'm impressed with PF publishing format--basically, module and mag combined in each issue. Slick.
<intrigued>

  

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:15 pm 
 

puterdragon wrote:
Thanks for this link. Very helpful for sorting out how the APs work together to form the six-module sets. I'm impressed with PF publishing format--basically, module and mag combined in each issue. Slick.
<intrigued>


yes, thanks.
I'd been thinking AP was a magazine.
But I stopped by bookstore on way home and actually saw "Stolen Land" on the shelf.

Too bad it was $20.


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:48 pm 
 

The artists and authors of PF are credible creators as well. Great lineup. I think I've found a 3.5e successor here--and another assault on my discretionaries account! <smile>

  

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Post Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:15 am 
 

puterdragon wrote:The artists and authors of PF are credible creators as well. Great lineup. I think I've found a 3.5e successor here--and another assault on my discretionaries account! <smile>


Everything I've read on here, other websites, and heard from friends tells me that PF is the successor to 3.5.

I have definitely found a new game to collect.

Now I just need money. Lots of it.

akp


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:05 am 
 

I think on balance (and principle) I'm going to got the OSRIC path rather than Pathfinder. Just not keen on making the jump to 3.5 essentially...  :lol:


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:27 am 
 

ashmire13 wrote:I think on balance (and principle) I'm going to got the OSRIC path rather than Pathfinder. Just not keen on making the jump to 3.5 essentially...  :lol:


Ash, the "jump" might not be what you think. For me, 3.5's advantages far outweigh its limitations. The gamer side of me likes it, finding its flexibility a means for creating an interesting D&D world, with variety and challenge. <satisfied>
I believe PF is (slowly) gaining ground on Necromancer as a collectable, and will continue doing so if it stays committed to 3.5.

  


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:58 am 
 

Keith the Thief wrote:
Everything I've read on here, other websites, and heard from friends tells me that PF is the successor to 3.5.

I have definitely found a new game to collect.

Now I just need money. Lots of it.

akp


Or patience--and less money.

  

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Post Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:04 pm 
 

ashmire13 wrote:I think on balance (and principle) I'm going to got the OSRIC path rather than Pathfinder. Just not keen on making the jump to 3.5 essentially...  :lol:


As I "get the band back together" we'll play an old school system.

Pathfinder is probably not on the horizon play-wise, but something I've gotten fascinated by.
I collect a lot of RPGs that I never play: CoC, Space: 1889, Traveller, etc
Pathfinder is my newest "find"

As the other post said, I just need to patient.

akp


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:42 pm 
 

Downloaded the PDF versions of the Pathfinder Core Rule and a copy of Sunken Empires.

I was actually going to buy the hardback version of the core rules at B&N this afternoon, but they didn't have any Pathfinder stuff left in stock.

akp


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:14 pm 
 

Keith the Thief wrote:
I was actually going to buy the hardback version of the core rules at B&N this afternoon, but they didn't have any Pathfinder stuff left in stock.

akp


LOL - So popular B&N can't keep it in stock.


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Post Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:54 am 
 

FormCritic wrote:
LOL - So popular B&N can't keep it in stock.


Or, they bought a few, like 2-3, and they sat on the shelf for a long time... and now that they're gone, they don't want to re-order them.

But, PF does seem to have its constituent followers. So you could be right. That would be good for the "industry" anyway.


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