Poll -- Best Retro, Old School (OSR) Rule Set
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Poll: What is the Best Old School (OSRIC) Rule Set?

Basic Fantasy RPG 9%       9%  [ 4 ]
Castles & Crusades 28%       28%  [ 12 ]
Swords & Wizardry 23%       23%  [ 10 ]
Labyrinth Lord 12%       12%  [ 5 ]
White Box RPG 5%       5%  [ 2 ]
I want my, I want my, I want my B/X/C 23%       23%  [ 10 ]
Total votes : 43

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Post Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:56 pm 
 

Out of the "simulacra" that I have seen, I think the one I like the most is BFRPG. It is different enough to be innovative and interesting. Some of the others have good ideas here and there, but I don't really see them as "games" per se, but that's just because I'm a twit.


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:11 pm 
 

ExTSR wrote:Um, hot flash -- Gail pulled all Gary's stuff a LONG time back. The Trolls don't have any rights there, nor any current or recent products from him.

Yep. That's why it's the best product to give TLG the chance of growing its market position and preventing it from dying off. IMO they should sell their souls to Gail Gygax to secure the rights to republish and develop the product line, and reintroduce and introductory 'basic' product channel to encourage new gamers. The rights to develop and use the Gygax name is the only real commodity in the market that could possibly currently be seen as a market changer if we're looking at traditional FRPGs.

As a company, they cannot survivve by feeding and milking the existing fanbase. No games company ever has been able to do that. Without serving the new and emerging gamer market (the kids) they are destined to wither and die. They have a strong customer base which buys them a lot more time than most companies have in order to correct their business stratagy, but if they do nothing, or address only what they perceive as their existing customers, they will die as a company.

Purely on a business point of view, an alternative stratagy would be to sell at it's peak to another publisher and get your money out of the company before it ditches as a system. But again, too many game developers sell only when they're forced to because their games have already ditched. I realise that creative people on the whole do not make good business people, but they need to be intelligent enough to realise that gap in their skills and seek business partners who do.

TLG have maybe two years to during which they can linger and procrastinate with no definite strong vision or leadership, but beyond that, if they do not have genius inhouse, or a serious heavy hitter and gifted support, they're on their way out. The company peaked, is lucky enough to be sitting on a plateau at the moment, but where it goes is up to them. I'm sure the owners realise this, but whether they actually understand it is a whole different question.

Unfortunately, many of the smaller 'clones' do not even get the chance to develop and grow in the manner C&C did. They are just not good enough in quality, or the controlling bodies do not have sufficient skills. But for these people the idea of just being a hobby project is not that bad a consolation prize, and the subsequent death of the system is no big deal. That's why so many small published obscurities are so fun and hard to find, and command such high prices on eBay.


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:03 pm 
 

Your analysis may be spot on. But you have to understand that the fortunes of the OSR is not dependent on any one company doing well (or bad).

The secret of the OSR is, quite simply,  the freedom of the Open Game License. That if you want too, you can use your creativity and imagination to make new things for older editions of D&D. That there no gatekeeper that can tell what you can and cannot do. There are some boundaries. What Wizards did not release under the OGL is one of them.

Everything that you read, or hear about the OSR is a consequence of that freedom. OSR describes, quite simply, the people taking advantage of that freedom. Troll Lords Games took advantage to produce Castle & Crusades.

I am not trying to beat you with the OSR stick but to point out this freedom is your freedom too. It the freedom that everybody reading this shares. And that is truly a glorious thing.

In short you don't have to wait for Troll Lord Games to succeed or fail. And by happy coincidence, you don't have to shell out big $$$$ to make good products either. With Print on Demand, the OSR Community, RPG Now, there are a lot of resources for a person willing to work at it to bootstrap their way to their goal.

  


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:25 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Yep. That's why it's the best product to give TLG the chance of growing its market position and preventing it from dying off. IMO they should sell their souls to Gail Gygax to secure the rights to republish and develop the product line, and reintroduce and introductory 'basic' product channel to encourage new gamers. The rights to develop and use the Gygax name is the only real commodity in the market that could possibly currently be seen as a market changer if we're looking at traditional FRPGs.


I think the only name that could be a market changer for RPGs is Harry Potter.

btw, are you in the business, mbassoc2003? You've said somethings that sounds like you are a some that sound like you aren't so I thought I should be gauche and just ask. :)

joe b.


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:43 pm 
 

serleran wrote:Out of the "simulacra" that I have seen, I think the one I like the most is BFRPG. It is different enough to be innovative and interesting. Some of the others have good ideas here and there, but I don't really see them as "games" per se, but that's just because I'm a twit.


I agree.
BFRPG seems the most polished.
The rules are essentially the same among all these sets,
but BFRPG is pleasing in its layout, formatting, font.

Combat and XP tables and the like are easily readable.
I even like the pencil sketches.  
I don't want elaborate "realistic" fantasy art.
I want the art to stimulate the imagination.
JMHO


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:50 pm 
 

jgbrowning wrote:
I think the only name that could be a market changer for RPGs is Harry Potter.
joe b.


If and only if they hire a game designer who
knows how to create a balanced game.
As it stands, the Harry Potter magic system has no
real limitations.  
"Recite pseudo-Latin and point a wand"
won't cut it in a game.
(and I like the books & movies)

But I agree that a Harry Potter RPG could
give D&D a run for its money


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:43 pm 
 

Keith the Thief wrote:
If and only if they hire a game designer who knows how to create a balanced game.  As it stands, the Harry Potter magic system has no
real limitations.   "Recite pseudo-Latin and point a wand"
won't cut it in a game. (and I like the books & movies)

But I agree that a Harry Potter RPG could give D&D a run for its money


I'd love to design a HP rpg. Instead of levels, there's be years. One would start off in grade 1 and have X amount of "save your bacon" points which, when spent, would summon adult help and save the day. These points would decrease as one advances in grade, eventually resulting in characters who are full wizards and who no longer have any "save your bacon" points.

It's be fun. Something fast-playing, but heavy on character customization.

joe b.


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:57 pm 
 

Rowling won't permit RPG licensing.

Many have tried. Many have died. ;>

  

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Post Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:58 pm 
 

jgbrowning wrote:
I'd love to design a HP rpg. Instead of levels, there's be years. One would start off in grade 1 and have X amount of "save your bacon" points which, when spent, would summon adult help and save the day. These points would decrease as one advances in grade, eventually resulting in characters who are full wizards and who no longer have any "save your bacon" points.

It's be fun. Something fast-playing, but heavy on character customization.

joe b.


Man, that would be fun, wouldn't it?

And folks could chose an era, as well.
If you wanted to play the time period
when James & Lili and Snape were students,
you could do it!
Create your own myths within Rowling's setting.


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:09 pm 
 

ExTSR wrote:Rowling won't permit RPG licensing.

Many have tried. Many have died. ;>


At least there's something for which to be grateful to her.


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:22 am 
 

robertsconley wrote:The secret of the OSR is, quite simply,  the freedom of the Open Game License. That if you want too, you can use your creativity and imagination to make new things for older editions of D&D. That there no gatekeeper that can tell what you can and cannot do. There are some boundaries. What Wizards did not release under the OGL is one of them.

It was always such, with or without the OGL. There were 'clone' rulesets based on the D&D core product, virtually from it's inception, so these core rules could exist with or without the OGL.
jgbrowning wrote:I think the only name that could be a market changer for RPGs is Harry Potter.

I think she will in time, but I don't see it in the next decade or so. The RPG image currently does not gel with the HP franchise or JKR's vision for it. That may change in time.
MetamorphosisSigma wrote:At least there's something for which to be grateful to her.

:lol:   :lol:   :lol:
jgbrowning wrote:btw, are you in the business, mbassoc2003?

I have a number of business interests. I don't do the traditional employee thing well.


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:14 am 
 

ashmire13 wrote:Hadn't checked that link before, thanks for the nod to it!

However, it brings up a warning when trying to download, mentioning potential adware/spyware content.

I'm guessing thats not the case, based on who you are on here.  :)

It's MediaFire I'm guessing. If you do encounter problems, PM me your email address (if it isn't already in your profile) and I'll send you a copy that way.



  


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:25 am 
 

ExTSR wrote: Rowling won't permit RPG licensing.

Many have tried. Many have died. ;>


Yeah, it's a pity IMO.

mbassoc2003 wrote:I think she will in time, but I don't see it in the next decade or so. The RPG image currently does not gel with the HP franchise or JKR's vision for it. That may change in time.


I suspect such as well. I think if she realized the tremendous educational ability of rpgs she may relent earlier. I think that people who aren't gamers don't really understand how beneficial they are to developing minds. I know they've been educational for me.


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:23 am 
 

jgbrowning wrote:
I suspect such as well. I think if she realized the tremendous educational ability of rpgs she may relent earlier. I think that people who aren't gamers don't really understand how beneficial they are to developing minds. I know they've been educational for me.

joe b.


Most people do not recognize the benefit of RPGs.
Even my closest friends (except 3 or 4 ex-players)
think my interest in them is quaint, at best.

I wish it were different.

Side-note -- I'm actually surprised someone here
in the States hasn't come up with a Bible-based RPG
for the Religious Right-Wing.  Gigantic market.


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:54 am 
 

Keith the Thief wrote:
Most people do not recognize the benefit of RPGs.
Even my closest friends (except 3 or 4 ex-players)
think my interest in them is quaint, at best.

I wish it were different.

Side-note -- I'm actually surprised someone here
in the States hasn't come up with a Bible-based RPG
for the Religious Right-Wing.  Gigantic market.


Well this is bible based: Testament, but not something for the religious right wingers.

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Post Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:01 pm 
 

What about Dragonraid?



  

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Post Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:03 pm 
 

I'm actually surprised someone here
in the States hasn't come up with a Bible-based RPG
for the Religious Right-Wing.


Trav beat me to it, but there are actually quite a few religious RPGs, of and for various faiths. Heck, some people even take non-religious-intention RPGs and turn them into gospel. They tend to be a little crazy. I knew this one guy, when Shadowrun came out, who thought it was a testament of future prophecy and could not wait to be goblinized.


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:12 pm 
 

serleran wrote:I knew this one guy, when Shadowrun came out, who thought it was a testament of future prophecy and could not wait to be goblinized.


I could see myself worshipping a power mad artificial intelligence but I don't think "goblinization" would be my kind of thing.  Ugly with horns and other odd growths is one thing....six pound testicles is another thing entirely.  Finding pants to fit would be difficult....walking in them would be murder.  8O  :wink:


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:40 pm 
 

Keith the Thief wrote:I'm actually surprised someone here
in the States hasn't come up with a Bible-based RPG
for the Religious Right-Wing.  Gigantic market.

They have one over here. It's called Catholicism. But it's more like a LARP.


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:29 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:They have one over here. It's called Catholicism. But it's more like a LARP.


LMAO!!  I needed that.  It's been a long damn day.


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