Lost Necromancer PDFs
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Post Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 12:35 am 
 

Anyone pick these up? Reviews?

  

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Post Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 1:57 am 
 

I've picked them up a while ago on sale, but I haven't had a chance to read them. I did skim through them though, and remember being pleased at the purchase. Good quality mapwork and illustration, high quality PDF with the usual meticulous typesetting you get with NG products, and from what I read, good solid plotlines and room to expand or diversify. One of them has a tie in with another published work, but I don't remember which.

Just my 2c. There're probably reviews around or on RPGNpw, or maybe someone on the NG board or Dragonsfoot could give a more informed opinion. As a collector I'm glad I have these.


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Post Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 2:05 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:I've picked them up a while ago on sale, but I haven't had a chance to read them. I did skim through them though, and remember being pleased at the purchase. Good quality mapwork and illustration, high quality PDF with the usual meticulous typesetting you get with NG products, and from what I read, good solid plotlines and room to expand or diversify. One of them has a tie in with another published work, but I don't remember which.

Just my 2c. There're probably reviews around or on RPGNpw, or maybe someone on the NG board or Dragonsfoot could give a more informed opinion. As a collector I'm glad I have these.


I think one is a prequel? Sequel? to Grey Citadel

  

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Post Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 10:42 am 
 

Does anyone have a list of these?

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Post Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 10:47 am 
 

Badmike wrote:Does anyone have a list of these?

Mike B.


The Eamonvale Incursion (The Grey Citadel prequel and sequel).
Slumberin Tsar
Demonheart

  

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Post Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 12:50 pm 
 

That's the old Slumbering Tsar 1 on DriveThru/RPGNow
The whole series is to be released through Bill's company Frog God Games

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Post Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 11:24 pm 
 

The Frog God Slumbering Tsar project sounds very interesting, Shane.

I plan to get a subscription.


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Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 3:46 am 
 

Plaag wrote:That's the old Slumbering Tsar 1 on DriveThru/RPGNow
The whole series is to be released through Bill's company Frog God Games

ShaneG.


Chapter 1 is now available for sale.

  

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Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 4:18 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:That's the old Slumbering Tsar 1 on DriveThru/RPGNow
The whole series is to be released through Bill's company Frog God Games

ShaneG.


So The Slumbering Tsar Saga is broken up into 14 parts  of which you can purchase the .pdf's piecemeal for $9.99 per part, except for part 1 which is $2.  So that comes to $141.86.  Or you can get the premium subscription, which comes with a hardcover version as well for $125. Or if you just want them all in .pdf form and dont care about the hardcover you can get all of them for $89.99.  Or you can skip the .pdf's and buy the harcover when it comes out for $169.99.

Obviously the premium subscription is the way to go for everything at $125.  But damnit I dont need or like .pdf's.  And who is to say that this will be a successful deal and a hardcover will even be available after all is said and done?  I don't want to plunk down $125 and then get told later down the road that the hardcover isnt going to happen.  Ptolus was over 600 pages (came with a shitload of extras on cd-rom as well) and that still only cost $110.

It's for Pathfinder, which I dont play or buy.  And its got Orcus in it.  Sounds like it should be called "Rappan Athuk Overloaded" to me.  :roll:   I dunno....I want to buy it but I just cant make my finger push the button.


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Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 4:50 pm 
 

Yes, this one is practically word for word identical to the the first three chapters of the NG download, even being situated and referenced to Bard's Gate (wonder if they have permission for that?).

Looks suspiciously like BW is trying to frog a dead horse here. Same old product with a few changed stats blocks and a price tag set to really screw the idiots who buy it. But then there are lots of idiots out there who buy the same old sh!t over and over again. Let's face it, that's what Pathfinder and D&D 4E are all about.


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Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:00 pm 
 

I am going to go in on this one just because I can pay in installments.

I have the $10 per month to cover it all.  I would not feel OK plunking down $125 all at once.

As for recycling old ideas into new adventures...well...name a really new adventure idea you've heard in the last ten years.

As for the pdf's....you aren't really buying them.  You're actually more like a sponsor or benefactor or patron or whatever they call the same thing over at the Kobold Quarterly.  The goal for me would be to own the final hardback product.

There is a risk.  The project is a year long...and we've seen projects like this go haywire or go completely south before.  

I figure I'll chance it, if only because it's Bill Webb and the revenant of Necromancer Games.


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Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:04 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:Does anyone have a list of these?

Mike B.


What list are you looking for, Mike?


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Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 7:16 pm 
 

I thought for a moment that you could do the subscription at $10 monthly payments (for the $125 total).

The site says that they haved recieved 50+ subscribers dropping the $125 down. If I knew that in the end the hardcover was coming out it might be something to shoot for, but I have had bad luck with these kind of offers before (and my budget is very tight at the moment, especially having broken it this past weekend).

Is Necromancer Games out of business? (I will have to check their website, last time I looked I couldnt tell).

Wouldn't the individual pdfs run $132? (someone mentioned $89 but I see that it is supposed to be in 14 parts).

  

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Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 9:12 pm 
 

Kingofpain89 wrote: I don't want to plunk down $125 and then get told later down the road that the hardcover isnt going to happen.  
...

I dunno....I want to buy it but I just cant make my finger push the button.


Have to say I am experiencing a similar reluctance.  I am not worried about the content, but just the possibility of the project becoming a slap-dash throw together to meet the deadlines, or on the other hand, delays so intolerable that they end up refunding subscription money.

  

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Post Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 12:32 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:As for recycling old ideas into new adventures...well...name a really new adventure idea you've heard in the last ten years.

No, you're paying $10 a month ($125) for a $15 adventure that;s only a few years old, and this is what appears to be an exact reproduction of the existing text with a few altered stats blocks. Have yopu actually compated them yet? Maybe you should put down the initial $2 and compare the two products line by line. It might save getting screwed. Besides, the whole damn series will be available for free within a few weeks of completion if you just search for them on Google, and there are 101 publishers who will bind them to boot.

I'd love to pay for a good product. I have all of the NG line and love BW's work. But this is seriously taking the p!ss out of gamers and trying to screw them by selling them an existing work chapter by chapter at an incredible rip-off price.

If this gets completed you may well be the owner of a very limited edition hardback. I don't see many people going for this. I'd be surprised if it happens on program and get's completed, but them if it's just a case of reprinting the existing text verbatim, maybe someone will get it done. If there is a bit of new material in there, or maybe a new bit added on to the end, you have a long time to wait for the new materials, and the odds of it actually being completed deminish remarkably.

Good luck. I hope this does happen 'cos you may end up with a collectable rarity akin to MC's Ptolus hardcover.


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Last edited by mbassoc2003 on Tue May 11, 2010 12:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 12:39 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:No, you're paying $10 a month ($125) for a $15 adventure that;s only a few years old, and this is what appears to be an exact reproduction of the existing text with a few altered stats blocks. Have yopu actually compated them yet? Maybe you should put down the initial $2 and compare the two products line by line. It might save getting screwed. Besides, the whole damn series will be available for free within a few weeks of completion if you just search for them on Google, and there are 101 publishers who will bind them to boot.

I'd love to pay for a good product. I have all of the NG line and love BW's work. But this is seriously taking the p!ss out of gamers and trying to screw them by selling them an existing work chapter by chapter.


You're saying that all 14 chapters of this series are simply a rehash of the material in the lost necromancer version? Wow, I thought this was going to be new material. I will have to check the website.

  

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Post Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 12:56 pm 
 

Maybe this is an extended version. But there is no explanation that I can see, and the text of the current download is not promising. The maps are identical straight lifts from the NG product too.

Maybe FGG need to clarify and expain the relationship between the two works and justify their price and what's gonna be new and worth paying the extra for. ATM it's anyone's guess, but based on the first installment, I'm not gonna get sucked in to ponying up for any further installments. At the very least, you'll be down $50-60 before you start seeing fresh works, and then you have no choice.

It's not exactly a transparent method of selling product to a customer.


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Post Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 2:43 am 
 

With all due respect, you guys haven't done your research.  Lemesee if I can give you the Cliff Notes version to clear this up a little.  

(And so that I don't come across as too much of a tool for NG, I'm undecided as to whether to get this this myself.  I want it for the Necromancer Games lore that it's supposed to contain - Rappan Athuk back story, more information about the Cult of Orcus, etc. - but $125 for 500 pgs is just plain crazy. NG has put out some great stuff over the years, but they also seemingly see nothing wrong with bending gamers over at the waist and screwing them into next year with these 'prestiege products'.

Then there's the utter lack of interest for me in the Pathfinder rules set itself.  I can convert the shit of course - it's essentially D&D 3.5 after all - but then I'm left with paying $125 for 200-250 pages, and that's just insulting.)

As I understand it (and remember it), this 14 volume release was originally planned as a three volume, print product that was going to be released in the early- to mid-2000's and was going to tie together several of the NG flagship adventures (RA, CoF, ToA) and even Bards Gate. Before it was released, NG undertook the compilation and (re)creation of the JG Wilderlands of High Fantasy boxed set. Before either Slumbering Tsar or the Wilderlands boxed set were released, WotC revised D&D 3.0 and released the 3.5 E rules.

Necromancer had to re-tool Slumbering Tsar, as well as the Wilderlands of High Fantasy and Bards Gate, to be up to snuff with the new 3.5 rules.  I say they 'had to' because they had a few titles that didn't get updated, and which were released on the eve of the release of the 3.5 rules. Those legacy 3.0 adventures didn't sell worth a crap for Necromancer, and you can still find some of them on the cheap.  

Fast forward a couple more years and Slumbering Tsar, along with a couple of other manuscripts (Emonvale Incursion and Demon Heart), were also updated from 3.0 rules to 3.5 rules. But by the time that was done, the d20 bubble had started to lose it's air and Necromancer's sales started their downward spiral.  NG tried to pull back the stick and avoid the crash. They partnered with Kenzer & Co and released a half-dozen or so books with limited print runs (1000 or 1500 copies only). But the first couple of those books were done on crappy slick paper and didn't get much press.  The next few were better, but neither NG nor Kenzer were promoting the new books at all.  

The last two really good products that NG put out right before 4th edition was announced were Bards Gate and The City of Brass boxed set. The City of Brass is great, one of my favorite gaming products of all time, but it, too, was a limited-edition, prestiege product that sold for $69 or $75 NIB.  

By this time, Slumbering Tsar I had been laid out and had cartography and art done. It was literally at the printers, waiting to be scheduled. When 4th edition was announced, NG cancelled the printing and shelved Slumbering Tsar I.  ST II and ST III were in various stages of completion, but lacked art, cartography, and final writing and editing.  

After two years of sitting on the shelf, ST I was pulled back off the shelf and made available as a pdf, with some half-baked thoughts of doing a POD release using the existing 3.5 pdf. Hopes were raised, then dashed again as the POD thing never materialized.  

NG huddled up this spring, and initially decided to release ST as a 'saga' type adventure, an all inclusive, all the bells and whistles release. But that was going to require quite a bit of capital, and it wouldn't be released for a year or more since ST II and ST III weren't complete  (and didn't have art or cartog.). Eventually, NG opted to break the three-volume 'package' up into 40-50 page pdfs and sell them on a monthly subscription basis to get some initial funding coming in to fund the art and cartog for the later portions (ST II and ST III). The idea of an all inclusive, hardback ST being available at the end is kind of the reward for hanging in there for the full subscription period. Of course, the hardback will be available separately, for a bit more money.  


So, to some degree, yeah, the first one or two or three of the 14 pdfs will contain much of the same information that was contained in the ST I pdf that was available within the last year. But Bill Webb has stated on his own forums that anyone who bought the ST I pdf will be given full credit for that purchase againt the total cost of the ST release, provided that you buy the whole release. So, the content is going to be rehashed, but you won't actually have to buy it all over again.

I hope that helps clear it up a little.  Thanks for reading.   :wink:

Jon



  

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Post Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 6:15 am 
 

So is the current $2 ST1 Part I identical to the corresponding chapters in the NG PDF? It would appear as though the wording is identical in every respect with the exception of the boxed stat blocks. If the next three installments take us to the end of the current release, and are identical again word for word with the already issued PDF, then we are to shell out $32 for the already available $15 PDF, and we wait until the fall before we see any real new materials.

Or is it just that the first one has no new material or editing because it was banged out in a hurry?

To be clear, I can see that the last 8 chapters appear to be further extension to the already published materials, but when you say 'reworked', that seems to be exagerating exactly what is actually being peddled here. Yes, we can get the new material, but fist pony up $32 for the existing material, and then we'll discount the $160 package to the bargain price of just $125.

Yes, this may well be a rarity and collectable for the future, but believe me, the whole lot will be available much cheaper than the current price. Early adoptors are gonna lose out big time unless BW gives them a personally signed leather bound copy.


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Post Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 9:21 am 
 

Thanks for the info, Jon.

Initial purchases funding later continuations of publication always makes me a bit antsy....

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