Worst Dungeons & Dragons product ever!!!
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Post Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:50 pm 
 

My OA is fine, aside from it being *upside down/back to front* in the binding.

I just found one of Talisman boards though has mild dew on it :-(  (have to try to figure out how to deal with that when I'm back in the UK :/).


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Post Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:30 pm 
 

I haven't encountered binding problems with any 1st edition rule books.  Both my OA and UA are prefectly intact (aside from cover/corner wear) despite spending over 10 years in a backpack that I took almost everywhere.

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Post Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:45 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:
red_dawn wrote:Deities & Demigods

Wow, that surprises me. I always thought that Deities was a great product — there was lots of cool artwork, some educational stuff about some religions I knew nothing about, and, of course, lots of bitchin' power-gaming stats. And, remember, the edition with the Cthulhu and Elric listings is really Super-Mondo-Way-Rare ... you can get, like, $1,000 for one. It was "banned," you know ... 8O

But your point about the runaway munchkin-ism is dead-on. That book just seemed to bring out the worst in everyone (bitch-slapping Elric and getting my hands on an official AD&D version of Stormbringer was one of my goals). I would argue that that sort of rampant power-gaming was more of a reflection on the players rather than the book, though. YMMV, of course.


OK, I was being a bit dramatic. The DDG isn't completely without merit. The art work is excellent, and the Ability Stat tables beyond 18 were helpful. I have to admit that it is still part of my collection.  :oops:

But the powergaming blame rests squarely on TSR... and yes, maybe Gygax with the set-piece Lolth fight (as MShipley88 pointed out) -- though I feel that's a special case, since that was the culmination of the A, G, & D series modules; an epic campaign surely.

With the average deity description in the DDG being virtually all combat stats, TSR was giving official sanction to said power-gaming. It was left to the DM to block this move, and to fill out the paltry clergy info in the DDG appendix.

OK, DDG isn't the worst AD&D product... but it set a poor precedent. From a roleplay perspective, the 2nd edition Legends & Lore was much more useful.

  

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Post Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:16 pm 
 

Zippanthropus wrote:
Am I the only geek who checks this site like 10 times a day?


Nope... I check it about 10 times a day myself!

  

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Post Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 3:34 pm 
 

sheeadog wrote:
Zippanthropus wrote:
Am I the only geek who checks this site like 10 times a day?


Nope... I check it about 10 times a day myself!


Wish I could cut down to ten  :lol:


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Post Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 5:02 pm 
 

Marlith wrote:
sheeadog wrote:
Nope... I check it about 10 times a day myself!


Wish I could cut down to ten  :lol:


i check about 50+ times  :oops:


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Post Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 5:04 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:i check about 50+ times  :oops:

And post on 49 of those occasions. :wink:

Kidding, kidding! All in good-natured fun ...

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Post Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 5:05 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:
killjoy32 wrote:i check about 50+ times  :oops:

And post on 49 of those occasions. :wink:

Kidding, kidding! All in good-natured fun ...


ya know, youre prb right - i dont have a life, so i gotta do something with it! :)

Al


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Post Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 5:40 pm 
 

Wake up. S, S & S. Get coffee. Check Acaeum. Wake up kids...everything begins to go south from there.


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

Everything Pacesetter at http://pacesettergames.blog.com/

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Post Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 6:26 pm 
 

Re-reading some old posts, looks like BadMike doesn't care for my work.

'sall right. I don't write to please everyone; that way lies madness.


Somebody else liked DL for the 'first 3d dungeon views, 'way kewl'...

Sorry; that was my idea, in R1 Falx; Steve Sullivan did the maps, at my direction. 3d was used thereafter in many products.

  

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Post Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 6:54 pm 
 

ExTSR wrote:Re-reading some old posts, looks like BadMike doesn't care for my work.

'sall right. I don't write to please everyone; that way lies madness.


Somebody else liked DL for the 'first 3d dungeon views, 'way kewl'...

Sorry; that was my idea, in R1 Falx; Steve Sullivan did the maps, at my direction. 3d was used thereafter in many products.


Your stuff was very good!!


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Post Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 7:06 pm 
 

Blackmoor wrote:
ExTSR wrote:Re-reading some old posts, looks like BadMike doesn't care for my work.

'sall right. I don't write to please everyone; that way lies madness.


Somebody else liked DL for the 'first 3d dungeon views, 'way kewl'...

Sorry; that was my idea, in R1 Falx; Steve Sullivan did the maps, at my direction. 3d was used thereafter in many products.


Your stuff was very good!!


i quite like R1 and R2 - must get around to playing them with the group sometime.

Al


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Post Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 11:58 pm 
 

3d maps always looked good...they just weren't useful for actually playing the so-afflicted modules.

The 3d fiasco of Ravenloft is probably the prime example.

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 12:42 am 
 

ExTSR wrote:Re-reading some old posts, looks like BadMike doesn't care for my work.

'sall right. I don't write to please everyone; that way lies madness.


Somebody else liked DL for the 'first 3d dungeon views, 'way kewl'...

Sorry; that was my idea, in R1 Falx; Steve Sullivan did the maps, at my direction. 3d was used thereafter in many products.



Hmm, I did like to throw around an opinion in those days.  Here are some of my relevant tidbits:

The CM and IM series for basic D&D.....horribly overpowered, I could never even use the floorplans or monsters, these completely useless to me.  Even stuff like the DL series I can use, if nothing else I recycle the floorplans, whereas the above mentioned series didn't even have useful floorplans.

Forgot about WG9 and WG10.  These were pretty bad I agree.  I11 Needle seems to suffer by not having a good central idea or adventure encounter, wasn't it pretty much entirely random encounters?


Sounds like I pretty much hated everything Frank's done, but I swear that's not the case.  :o
 I confess that I was not fond of the basic game and the various rules sets (basic, expert, masters, companion and Immortals) because my group played AD&D exclusively.  Back in the day there was a lot of animosity between the "AD&D" and "Basic D&D" crowd. Interestingly I just read a very old article by Phil Gallagher today where he was also skeptical of the Immortals set until Frank ran him in an adventure (can you confirm this Frank?).  Maybe if Frank had run myself and my group through some of the IM series I would be more on board....but I just personally had no use for playing 30+ level characters, my group had never even seen a character over level 18 ever (even until this day, almost 30 years later), so the idea of playing super high level characters just held no attraction to me or my players.
  As for Needle, I still think it's interesting idea in search of a unifying plot thread. It's one of the few 1st edition adventures I never ran in the day, I just personally never warmed up to it.
  However, I did run the R-series, R2 more than once, liked that and R1. R1 had some truly great traps and encounters; R2 should just how nasty a high level Illusionist coudl be as an opponent.   T1-4 is a classic, I've run this multiple times.  Loved Aeshaba (used some of it in my own campaign world when creating a jungle kingdom).  Loved Baltron's Beacon and ran it multiple times (didn't you help write this one Frank?).  Enjoyed The Convert but never ran it.
   There are plenty of authors out there whose stuff I hated WAY more than your stuff Frank. :)

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 12:52 am 
 

I must admit, I'm not crazy about a lot of classic modules.  They were ok, and it saved time, but our homebrew adventures were more memorable.  

OTOH, Frank's work on the BECMI boxed sets, Basic in particular, is outstanding.  Probably my favorite (A)D&D item.  I honestly don't see why people play C&C, when these sets are readily available on eBay.

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Post Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 2:52 am 
 

It is sometimes fun to bite into publishers like Judges Guild for some of their low quality modules.

   The truth is that a number of TSR modules did not make the grade either.  

    I remember reading a number of "adventures" that had come into my possession only to ask...at the end...."Um, where is the adventure in this?"

    For me, "adventure" always translated as "stuff to fight" or "things to kill."

    That's why I always liked modules like the G series.  You just can't ever get enough giants into a module.  

    My players have long joked about my infamous catchphrase:  "Ten more run in!"  There's always room for giants!

    It all depends on your style.  For me, aside from nothing to kill, the worst thing a module could do was provide me with a whole new kingdom/city/continent/region/world to which the adventure was inextricably tied.   :x  

    That sort of thing happened all too often...even with TSR.

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 5:17 pm 
 

I quite liked the complete books. They had some interesting info in them. The complete necromancer is however the best of the lot... I just love the flavour text and the ideas it came up with... mmm unholy pacts... mmm evil...

I always found the complete "race" books useful. Nothing like a little read up on a race's history to really go rping mad...
And i'll always love reading about gnomes... they amuse me no end.

Monsterous mythology is useful... I always hated how 3E made gods so... vuage. "oh this is the god of death... um.. yeah".. no furthur info about how they were worshipped... nothing about their priesthood. even the new faiths and pantheons for that edition sucked. stats for gods avators but nothing actually useful. If i'm going to play a cleric I damn well want to know what he should believe and what sort of rituals and holidays he should observe. come on... doesn't take much to write some interesting info on a god. just take a look at ad&d's equivilant effort.

Bad products... well hmm... i've never really looked at the core edition stuff... i collect planescape. and of that... i'd have to say the guide to the outlands audio cd... oh dear... it's so cheesy and I really honestly can't see any practical use for it.

as for the binders.. they have one use and one use alone. Instead of having to lug a heavy hardback to a session, you simply take out the sheets you need for the session and take them along. Only problem is it's easier to lose or damage individual sheets. However, compaired to the awkward heaviness of the Monster manual, it's a risk i'd be willing to take... or... alternately... the soft cover compendiums. less weight, harder to lose than sheets, contain all you need.

We're starting a spell jammer game this sunday... i'll let you lot know how it goes... heh... <-< >-> I think we're all gonna die

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Post Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 7:15 pm 
 

No no no folks, you all got it wrong. :)

Aside from the puke which is the D&D movie, there is one product which deserves our disrespect: X12 Skarda's Mirror by Aaron Allston. Absolutly the most un-fun, boring, valueless adventure you could go on.


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