Report sellers who infringe copyrights!
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Post Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:31 pm 
 

bbarsh wrote in Report sellers who infringe copyrights!:
You lump  in the "and similar projects?" to your one sentence post. Exactly what other projects? It would seem you are suggesting NTX did other unauthorized projects, but maybe not. Hard to tell when it is included in the same sentence.

All of which is pretty much irrelevant, anyway. The ST1 "reprint" is illegal. I don't care how many other examples of that are out there. The NTX reprint was years ago now. I am not sure why it would be brought up, anyway.


The original poster may fall into a group of tight-ass collector types that bitched when the word got out we were reprinting Wee Warriors items, as they were apparently investing in these and couldn't stand that someone might buy a copy on the cheap.  These types would rather key collectibles not be reprinted for the unwashed masses if it means their original copies take a very slight ding on prices (which personally I haven't noticed even with both the NTRPG con and Pacesetter versions of, say, POTVQ out there).  Yeh news flash there are some game collectors that are selfish ninnies, same as in any hobby.

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Post Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:36 pm 
 

** eBay auction listing blocked.  Please enable cookies in your browser for this site and for eBay! **

Does this look very fake to anyone else?
I think this same item/seller has been up before.

Pages look too flawless and bright to have been around since 1971/72;
Cover doesn't match the innards;
Staples look brand new;
Cover seems to have been stapled separately to the set of pages, which are stapled together on their own;

  

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Post Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:19 pm 
 

Gnat the Beggar's recent saga.  Thread is around here somewhere.

He returned the item to the seller, so it's being sold again.  Lots of argument back and forth on whether it's a legitimate cover or not -- only way to truly tell is to look under a microscope.  That wasn't done, so it's still up in the air re: authenticity.

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Post Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:27 pm 
 

FoulFoot wrote in Report sellers who infringe copyrights!:Gnat the Beggar's recent saga.  Thread is around here somewhere.

He returned the item to the seller, so it's being sold again.  Lots of argument back and forth on whether it's a legitimate cover or not -- only way to truly tell is to look under a microscope.  That wasn't done, so it's still up in the air re: authenticity.

Foul


Here's the link.

Re: Shady Dealers


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:33 am 
 

Badmike wrote in Report sellers who infringe copyrights!:
bbarsh wrote in Report sellers who infringe copyrights!:
You lump  in the "and similar projects?" to your one sentence post. Exactly what other projects? It would seem you are suggesting NTX did other unauthorized projects, but maybe not. Hard to tell when it is included in the same sentence.

All of which is pretty much irrelevant, anyway. The ST1 "reprint" is illegal. I don't care how many other examples of that are out there. The NTX reprint was years ago now. I am not sure why it would be brought up, anyway.


The original poster may fall into a group of tight-ass collector types that bitched when the word got out we were reprinting Wee Warriors items, as they were apparently investing in these and couldn't stand that someone might buy a copy on the cheap.  These types would rather key collectibles not be reprinted for the unwashed masses if it means their original copies take a very slight ding on prices (which personally I haven't noticed even with both the NTRPG con and Pacesetter versions of, say, POTVQ out there).  Yeh news flash there are some game collectors that are selfish ninnies, same as in any hobby.

Mike B.


Seems Mr. MetaSigma aka asshole, was just trolling around. But I think Mike hit the nail on the head.  :D


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

Everything Pacesetter at http://pacesettergames.blog.com/

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Post Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:59 am 
 

bbarsh wrote in Report sellers who infringe copyrights!:
Badmike wrote in Report sellers who infringe copyrights!:
The original poster may fall into a group of tight-ass collector types that bitched when the word got out we were reprinting Wee Warriors items, as they were apparently investing in these and couldn't stand that someone might buy a copy on the cheap.  These types would rather key collectibles not be reprinted for the unwashed masses if it means their original copies take a very slight ding on prices (which personally I haven't noticed even with both the NTRPG con and Pacesetter versions of, say, POTVQ out there).  Yeh news flash there are some game collectors that are selfish ninnies, same as in any hobby.

Mike B.


Seems Mr. MetaSigma aka asshole, was just trolling around. But I think Mike hit the nail on the head.  :D


Meta/David was just trolling, but we did have complaints from a small number of collectors befoe reprinting the Wee Warriors stuff.  My mindset is just so different, I believe the more you publicize something the better it is for the hobby, and sometimes it affects the price of the item positively.  Some people really don't want everyone else to have access to certain items because if they are the only ones with the keys to the kingdom it makes them feel good.  There is that type in every single collectible community.

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Post Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:55 pm 
 

It's great to have folk around in the hobby with this point of view. Some of these old modules are simply out of reach for me, but not being a collector does not mean that I don't want to try out them out with my players. I am yet to be convinced that a cheap reprint of PotVQ will have any more effect on the value of an original than the postcards sold at the Louvre will have on its exhibits.

  

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Post Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:01 pm 
 

vosarnath wrote in Report sellers who infringe copyrights!:It's great to have folk around in the hobby with this point of view. Some of these old modules are simply out of reach for me, but not being a collector does not mean that I don't want to try out them out with my players. I am yet to be convinced that a cheap reprint of PotVQ will have any more effect on the value of an original than the postcards sold at the Louvre will have on its exhibits.


The PotVQ reprints have been around for three years. It has done absolutely nothing to the value of the original PotVQ. So, I would say you are exactly correct.


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

Everything Pacesetter at http://pacesettergames.blog.com/

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Post Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:09 pm 
 

vosarnath wrote in Report sellers who infringe copyrights!:It's great to have folk around in the hobby with this point of view. Some of these old modules are simply out of reach for me, but not being a collector does not mean that I don't want to try out them out with my players. I am yet to be convinced that a cheap reprint of PotVQ will have any more effect on the value of an original than the postcards sold at the Louvre will have on its exhibits.


If all you want to do is play them with your players, you can just go download one of the many torrents of every module ever made. Then you can go nuts and play all the old stuff you want. The difference between this and the guy trying to sell his ST1s is just that, the profit. He shouldn't be allowed to make money off someone else's ideas. I also do not think reprints affect prices, but, the comic book industry may disagree with you. So, YMMV.

Zen

P.S. PotVQ really wasn't very good, you're not missing much. :)

  

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Post Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:53 pm 
 

Zenfinite wrote in Report sellers who infringe copyrights!:
P.S. PotVQ really wasn't very good, you're not missing much. :)


Hey, I hope you were referring to the original dungeon crawl and not the revised AD&D edition.   :D


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

Everything Pacesetter at http://pacesettergames.blog.com/

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Post Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:51 pm 
 

IMO, and it could just be age that brings on pragmatism, but I think copyright and its infringement, of historic works, needs to be viewed from a moral basis... Is the publisher doing it for his own personal profit and gain, or is the publisher trying to achieve some other goal (wider distribution, archival of endangered works via public distribution, etc.)?

We can always say, "Well the publisher doesn't/shouldn't get to make that choice." He does not own the IP. But then (arguably) copyright laws in most of our countries are so archaic and/or corrupted that 'ownership' of what is/should be morally acceptable in society, legal and just should maybe be taken back from lawmakers and handed over to the people. Maybe it is wrong to photocopy ST1 and try to sell it on eBay to line your own pocket, but maybe it isn't so wrong to make it available for free to those who wish to read it.

Or maybe it is for the buyer and the seller to judge these things based on thier own moral code and greed, and maybe it is not our place to Police eBay and the internet. It may be 'defending or hobby', but all the evidence over the past 10 years I've been doing this has shown me that this sort of crime is not damaging the value or the collectability of these products, and given that in all likelihood it only occurs when no permission to reprint would is availabe as an option, nor does it remove any revenue from either the original publisher or the IP owner.

All that is lost, should the IP owner ever find out and/or care, is the right the IP owner had to say 'no' and be listened to, and even then, he still has the right to sue.


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Post Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:04 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote in Report sellers who infringe copyrights!:IMO, and it could just be age that brings on pragmatism, but I think copyright and its infringement, of historic works, needs to be viewed from a moral basis... Is the publisher doing it for his own personal profit and gain, or is the publisher trying to achieve some other goal (wider distribution, archival of endangered works via public distribution, etc.)?

We can always say, "Well the publisher doesn't/shouldn't get to make that choice." He does not own the IP. But then (arguably) copyright laws in most of our countries are so archaic and/or corrupted that 'ownership' of what is/should be morally acceptable in society, legal and just should maybe be taken back from lawmakers and handed over to the people. Maybe it is wrong to photocopy ST1 and try to sell it on eBay to line your own pocket, but maybe it isn't so wrong to make it available for free to those who wish to read it.

Or maybe it is for the buyer and the seller to judge these things based on thier own moral code and greed, and maybe it is not our place to Police eBay and the internet. It may be 'defending or hobby', but all the evidence over the past 10 years I've been doing this has shown me that this sort of crime is not damaging the value or the collectability of these products, and given that in all likelihood it only occurs when no permission to reprint would is availabe as an option, nor does it remove any revenue from either the original publisher or the IP owner.

All that is lost, should the IP owner ever find out and/or care, is the right the IP owner had to say 'no' and be listened to, and even then, he still has the right to sue.


The only instance I can see that is not arguable is when the original author of a product does not want it re-released.  As an example Doug and I contacted the authors of Skinwalkers & Shapeshifters to see if they would consent to have it reprinted, or sell the rights to us. What we are told is that they were not interested and as a matter of fact wished to "distance" themselves from the product totally (I am just making a guess here that is all it is but I got the impression the issues were religious based).  In that case I think that despite the value to the community at large these individual's rights should be respected, whether or not anyone charged for the materials or not.

I'm on the same side as mbassoc here as long-time Acaeum members probably know, in that I think nothing good comes from the fact that Tortured Souls, Beholder fanzine, or The Companions items are not available to the gaming community at large.  I don't see anything wrong with free versions of certain items being distributed to gamers but because of overly stringent copyright laws, I realize that is not always legal, which frankly sucks for the community at large.

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Tue May 13, 2014 4:08 pm 
 

I doubt this is legit ... digital copies??


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Post Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 4:01 pm 
 

Someones been busy:


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:46 pm 
 

Since there was a discussion on this a while back I figured this is as good a place as any to ask my question. I know the listing below is from badmike and I am not trying to raise the discussion on reprints or anything. I am just curious is there anyway to differentiate the original from this authorized reprint besides it being stated so?  
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Post Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:58 pm 
 

cabala wrote in Report sellers who infringe copyrights!:Since there was a discussion on this a while back I figured this is as good a place as any to ask my question. I know the listing below is from badmike and I am not trying to raise the discussion on reprints or anything. I am just curious is there anyway to differentiate the original from this authorized reprint besides it being stated so?  
** expired/removed eBay auction **
Isn't the north texas logo all over it?


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:54 pm 
 

Ahh yes now it is staring me in the face, doh!

  

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Post Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:57 am 
 

cabala wrote in Report sellers who infringe copyrights!:Since there was a discussion on this a while back I figured this is as good a place as any to ask my question. I know the listing below is from badmike and I am not trying to raise the discussion on reprints or anything. I am just curious is there anyway to differentiate the original from this authorized reprint besides it being stated so?


Several ways:

The pages are watermarked with the NTRPG con logo;

Inside cover says: Printed by North Texas RPG Con---2012
Welcome to the Frontpage
With Permission from Peter Kerestan
1st printing

Also the NTRPG con version is probably much slicker and newer than any original copy you could run across.

I found several copies of this I had stashed away, including two of my grandson's copies that he had purchased at the con (the two I'm selling now are actually his).

Mike B.


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