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Post Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:34 am 
 

I have two Brown cover B1's.  Both are 4ht prints.  However, one is 11" tall and the other is the standard 10 3/4".


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Post Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:03 am 
 

deimos3428 wrote:
johnhuck wrote:
Wasn't there an errata for the MM?  I've got a vague recollection of seeing one.

The Acaeum has an errata, Http://www.acaeum.com/Library/ErrataMM.html, but it doesn't contain the word quasit (I didn't read the whole thing).  This site states that Dragon 25 had an errata article, and earlier printings apparently came with an errata sheet.  All is claimed to be fixed by the 4th edition.


A picture of the errata sheet is here: Page Not Found

An expanded version of this sheet was released as an article in Dragon #35.  While the majority of the corrections had been implemented by the Fourth print, a few never were.

You folks are the first to spot the Quasit discrepancy -- I've added it to the MM errata article on the site.

  

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Post Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:04 am 
 

beyondthebreach wrote:I have two Brown cover B1's.  Both are 4ht prints.  However, one is 11" tall and the other is the standard 10 3/4".


A while ago we ditched minor size variations from the print descriptions.  There was always argument over whether a module was 10 3/4" or 10 7/8", anyway.

Bottom line: yes, different sizes indicate different printings, but not for our purposes.

  


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Post Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:47 pm 
 

I have this (extremely) vague memory of this coming up and them verifying that the entry in the book was correct and the cover was incorrect (as you would expect).  

Carl

  


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Post Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:11 am 
 

Has anyone compared the MM errata against the monster summaries with XPs in the DMG's appendix E?  

A quick check at Page Not Found shows:

Addition 10A:  Never corrected
Beholder: MAGIC RESISTANCE: Special. This refers to the monster's eleventh eye. The Anti‑Magic Ray can be used to protect the Beholder from magic of all forms.

Correction 48A:  Never corrected
Golem, Flesh: MOVE: 9".


while the corresponding entries in Appendix E shows only that the beholder's Special Defenses are "anti-magic"---there is no explicit mention anti-magic as magic resistance, which is commonly listed as a special defense for creatures that have it.  Appendix E doesn't list movement rates, so there's no double-check value there.

I had always surmised that the quasit's stats on the back of the MM were intentional misinformation, so that players wouldn't learn crucial secrets about the quasit while perusing the book in-store.  (I'm not sure why I thought that would work, since they could just read the main entry, of course).  Am I to understand correctly that the substantive discrepancies between the back cover of the MM (4th printing) and the main entry are also reflected in the UK vs. US MM printings?  

Basically, I'm trying to figure out if the main entry for the quasit in the MM is correct or needs to be fixed :D


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Post Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:36 pm 
 

OD&D - Fourth Minus: more "fun and games"

Recent 4th- (Nov 1975) purchase
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 5925011042
(books EX-NM, did more damage opening to scan... hrrr...)
did have the TSR Hobbies Inc. sticker at the back of volume 1:
Image

However, at least one of my other 4th-s doesn't:
Image

=

The mention of errata sheets in The Acaeum printing history is also a bit confusing...

e.g. 2nd print has a separate "errata sheet"
Image
whilst one of the other four page folded sheets (weapons/potions/etc., tables) has a blank front cover:
Image

The 4th- (per above eBay auction) still has the errata, but this has been printed into that blank space on the front of the weapons/potions/etc. folded sheet, rather than being separate:
(front; folded, with Lizardman logo)
Image
(back; folded)
Image
(this sheet is folded separately from the other folded reference sheets)

Whilst by the 5th print this particular weapons/potions/etc. sheet is now entitled "Reference Sheets" on the front page (confusingly with a GK logo!) and forms the "cover" to the reference sheets.
There is no errata in any form for this printing.
Image

Does this tally with other copies around?

=

Also, it appears as though (most?) earlier white box printings have a lighter red and crisp "Dungeons & Dragons" text header on the front, which is a duller blurred red on later non-OCE boxes.
How consistent this is, I'm not too sure...
(The darkness of the central wizard scene on later non-OCEs is also variable).

Anyone have other observations on these boxes, too?

Regards,
David.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:55 am 
 

I just received the Star Probe we won from the Burntwire Bro's. I was reading the forward by Gygax and was interesting to note that the play testing for the game involved a lost space ship that "having had the misfortune of somehow arriving at the world of Blackmoor and promptly losing all to the angry wizard that they foolishly disturbed". This made me think of S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks. A spaceship lost in the world of Blackmoor i.e. Graywawk. I was wondering if there was a connection between the two :roll: . In the preface of S3 again by Gygax it states that "while the latter (referring to Metamorphosis Alpha) proved successful since mid-76, only a few copies of the tournament dungeon used for Origins II have been around (referring to a tournament type version of S3).  
Give the preface of S3 a read for yourself. As for the connection between the two I could find nothing but my above notion. What I am now puzzled about is that tournament version S3. If it does exist would it be considered one of the rares like a Tsojconth or a Ghost Tower of Inverness 1st print? Does someone out there have one of these tournament S3's? I'd think it would be remarkable if someone has one.

Opinions greatly appreciated,
Mike

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Post Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:19 am 
 

harami2000 wrote:OD&D - Fourth Minus: more "fun and games"

The mention of errata sheets in The Acaeum printing history is also a bit confusing...

Also, it appears as though (most?) earlier white box printings have a lighter red and crisp "Dungeons & Dragons" text header on the front, which is a duller blurred red on later non-OCE boxes.
How consistent this is, I'm not too sure...
(The darkness of the central wizard scene on later non-OCEs is also variable).

Anyone have other observations on these boxes, too?

Regards,
David.

Good work.

I've also noted the different versions of reference sheets and the variable quality of the wizard.  But isn't the boxed set complicated enough?  :?

I'd be interested in any other observations and theories though.

  


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:12 am 
 

I have two kinds of FR4 - the much more common which is stapled in, and a more obscure one with the free-standing cover, like a normal module.  I'm not sure which came first.  I don't see any difference in printing.

  

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Post Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:48 am 
 

Regarding the "Quasit" question from some previous posts:

I remember this difference from way back. . . I noticed it shortly after buying my first Monster Manual.  As I think about it now, I get the feeling that the Quasit was probably changed at the last minute to bring it in line with the Imp (and to some degree the pseudo-dragon & Brownie).  This makes the "special" alignment familiars more similar in power level and magic resistance "transferance".  In fact, maybe it was decided that a Chaotic Evil familiar choice was needed and the Quasit was determined to be the most suitable candidate.

As a side note, I do find it odd that the Quasit was selected to be put on the back cover of the Monster Manual to begin with. . . what were they thinking?  A Quasit?  How about an Ogre?  or Storm Giant? or Manticore?  or anything else that someone new to the game might relate to or think was cool. . . but a Quasit?  What the hell is that anyway?  I know that Gygax & Co. dug up a lot of monsters from history and folklore, but I have yet to encounter the word "Quasit" anywhere else.

Maybe they were trying to demonstrate that not all the monsters were ones you had heard of?  Even so. . . . :?:


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 8:21 am 
 

beyondthebreach wrote:This makes the "special" alignment familiars more similar in power level and magic resistance "transferance".  In fact, maybe it was decided that a Chaotic Evil familiar choice was needed and the Quasit was determined to be the most suitable candidate.

To all CE magic-users:

Please be aware!  Despite their demonic appearance, quasits cannot fly!  Not heeding this advice is a particularly painful way to lose four experience levels.  :evil:   Take it from someone that learned the hard way.

 YIM  

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Post Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:36 am 
 

Now that I actually have a Monster Manual in front of me I am going to put one little addition to my comment on the quasit.  The short excerpt from the back cover reads:

"The Quasit is the unchanged form of the familiar of a chaotic evil magic-user or cleric, just as the imp is the unchanged form of the familiar of the lawful evil magic-user or cleric.  As such it is very rarely encountered except in the planes of the abyss or upon the death of its master or. . . "

Despite the poorly written description (they used "of" four times in the first sentence and twice more in the second) what this implies is that all familiars of CE evil magic-users are, in fact, quasits.  They would be changed in appearance so that they resembled a rat or cat or whatever, but their true form is a quasit (an imp would be the same to a LE magic-user).  Also, it indicates that clerics can have familiars as well.  I guess then, it is not surprising that in the final edit, the quasit was changed as the above description is very limiting (in that absolutely every CE magic-user with a familiar has a quasit) and probably not a very good idea for game balance.


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:28 am 
 

re: Tourney version of S3

invincibleoverlord wrote:What I am now puzzled about is that tournament version S3. If it does exist would it be considered one of the rares like a Tsojconth or a Ghost Tower of Inverness 1st print? Does someone out there have one of these tournament S3's? I'd think it would be remarkable if someone has one.


Like you, Mike, I'm interested in tourney versions of adventures in order to learn about the module development process---comparing Tsojconth to S4, Lost Tamoachan to C1, or the original Ghost Tower to C2 is quite enlightening.  

Over the course of my research, I've heard that the RPGA adventure database was intentionally deleted by an departing employee c. 1987, and that neither TSR nor WotC has copies of pre-1987 materials, in general.  

I'd love to get my hands on the tourney versions of S1, S3, A1, A2, A3, A4, and I1---even if they were just photocopies---because their research value is incalculable.  As an aside, I've also heard from EGG that the tourney versions of G1-3 and D1-3 were run from the published modules vs. from tourney originals; can anyone confirm/deny this?

And, of course, I'm still looking for "Treasures of the Dragon Queen"--for details, see my site at Greyhawk's Tournament History: Treasure of the Dragon Queen


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:32 am 
 

Quick question for anyone who knows:  Are the booklets of some B2's 3-hold punched by TSR?  Not the cover (which I have never seen) but the booklet itself.   :?:


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:56 am 
 

Not that I've seen, but there's an easy way to find out.  Line up a B3 or B4 with the 3-ring and see if it matches - the TSR holes were considerably larger and cleaner than what you can accomplish with a home or office hole-puncher.  If they're smaller, it's done by the owner; if they're the same size, you have a research item.
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Post Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:27 am 
 

grodog wrote:
I'd love to get my hands on the tourney versions of S1, S3, A1, A2, A3, A4, and I1---even if they were just photocopies---because their research value is incalculable. As an aside, I've also heard from EGG that the tourney versions of G1-3 and D1-3 were run from the published modules vs. from tourney originals; can anyone confirm/deny this?


Not excatly what you're looking for but......

Needle I11 tourney's at the Dragon's trove. There a bit pricey….. :mrgreen:  :mrgreen:  :mrgreen:.... What would be the value on these or other tournament modules? Is the Trove even in the Ballpark?

Page not found | The Dragon's Trove

  


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 6:25 pm 
 

Very minor research tidbit:

I don't know if this is known (probably), I saw no mention of it on the site.

I've noticed the 1st printing boxed set has it's page numbers centred, and the 5th printing (my only copy to compare) has it's page numbers alternating in the corners...can anyone fill in the blanks on the other printings?
[edit]
Also, Pg. 4 of Vol 3 is different.  The first has hand-lettered words on the "Sample Level" legend, the 5th has a typeface, and circles around the room numbers.

Same with the "Construction" drawing on pg. 21.

Incidentally, this might this be of use in verifying Mr. Stormberg's Vol 3?

 YIM  

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Post Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 7:08 pm 
 

invincibleoverlord wrote:Needle I11 tourney's at the Dragon's trove. There a bit pricey….. :mrgreen:  :mrgreen:  :mrgreen:.... What would be the value on these or other tournament modules? Is the Trove even in the Ballpark?

Page not found | The Dragon's Trove

A less pricey alternative would be to find both parts of I11 in Polyhedron.  I have both issues with the two halves of the adventure, with the mailing cover still on them.  My best guess is that they didn't change anything between printing the module for the DM, and publishing it in Polyhedron.  I would think more substantial changes would have come when I11 was published as a regular module.



  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:41 pm 
 

B1 Mono UK version comes with the last page 31-32 twice.  Once in the booklet.  And once as a separate sheet.  I have three separate copies with this sheet.  One of which I bought from new.  So, they were not photocopied at a later date.

I've had a quick look on the site and I can't find a mention about it.

Is this the same with the USA mono?  I don't actually have a copy!

  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:30 pm 
 

The B1 US versions I've seen, no matter how early, only have a 32-page booklet.  Pp. 31-32 are often missing, but there's never a separate sheet in addition.

  
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