The Worth of a 3-Hole Punched Tsojconth?
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Post Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:28 pm 
 

Sandralock has relisted her MDG Tsojconth for $795 even though it didn't sell for that much the first time around:

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem& ... 5905510396

The question is: How badly does a three-hole punch affect an item's value?  Does it bring the item straight down to poor condition?  Is it even in collectible condition anymore?  Or is it a minor blemish if it is complete and in excellent condition in every other facet?  
Opinions?

  

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Post Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 2:18 pm 
 

Well, if the rest of it was NM, I'd rate it as Excellent. But myself, I wouldn't buy it unless I was desperate. I had intended to buy Burnie's, copy my character sheets, and trade it to someone on the forum who needed it, but my bid was blocked. Obviously I would have stated that the char sheets were photocopies, but realistically it would still be graded FAR lower with copied sheets.


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:36 pm 
 

I am far from the "gotta have it in mint shrink wrap condition" crowd, but I wouldn't touch it. Might as well be ripped in half in my mind.


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

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Post Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:40 pm 
 

I personally wouldnt pay any more than poor price for it, and only if it was a must have for me. Otherwise I would consider it a trade only item.

  


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:12 pm 
 

bbarsh wrote:I am far from the "gotta have it in mint shrink wrap condition" crowd, but I wouldn't touch it. Might as well be ripped in half in my mind.


I am of the gotta have it shrink wrapped, I use that as my excuse to say things like "I would use that worthless pile for toilet paper" (while secretly yearning for it since I dont have that kind of money to throw around).   :wink:


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:36 pm 
 

Hole-punching in my opinion automatically reduces the item to VG, maybe Excellent, but that's a stretch.  It's a major defect.  Condition goes down from there.  It's really in the eye of the beholder though.

  

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Post Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:40 pm 
 

shhhh...I have one, so it's easy for me to say that its junk...

Seriously, once a module has been "customized", the value has to decrease...and sharply...

I really want to get an Orange B3, but I wouldn't pay for a hole punched copy.


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

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Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:00 am 
 

bbarsh wrote:shhhh...I have one, so it's easy for me to say that its junk...

Seriously, once a module has been "customized", the value has to decrease...and sharply...

I really want to get an Orange B3, but I wouldn't pay for a hole punched copy.


Are you sure it couldnt have come hole punched though? Ive seen "The Lost City" and possibly "Geomorphs", "Dungeon Master Adventure Log", "Player Character Record Sheets" etc all hole punched from the factory.


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Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 4:10 am 
 

Because of its much larger collector base, the comicbook industry really has taken great strides in defining its grading.  How is a book graded with flaws like Tsojconth?

If it were a comic, it could be given a "Qualified" grade.  So, if the copy of Tsojconth is Near Mint it would be a "Qualified Near Mint".  That essentially means Near Mint except for one extreme flaw (like a page loose from the staples, one long clean tear, an ad cut out, etc.)

What would the value of such a book be?  The Acaeum lists:

Mint - $1,000
Very Good - $650
Poor - $350

The first problem is that the value of a Poor book is severly overstated on the Aceaum site (in my opinion).  Poor books should carry a value of 5% of the Mint grade at the absolute most.  

My own grading scale is based upon the comic industry standards, though the relative values are much higher than comics. (A VERY GOOD comic only carries a value of about 17% of the Near Mint price) All modesty aside, I am an expert grader of comics with extremely stringent and exacting standards.  

Grade           % Value

Near Mint          100%
Excellent            80%
Fine                   60%
Very Good          40%
Good                  20%
Fair                    10%
Poor                    5%

Combination values split the difference so that Excellent/Near Mint is 90% & Good/Very Good is 30%.  True MINT carries a value higher than 100%, but in reality almost all "Mint" items are really Near Mint.

Let's say that three holes completely through a module lower the grade to Fair.  However, these are neatly and deliberately made 3-hole punches so assigning a Qualified Grade would be appropriate - It is a Qualified Near Mint.  

Take half the % difference between Near Mint and Fair and add it to the Fair value.

100% - 10% = 90% (This is the % difference)
1/2 of 90% = 45% (1/2 the %difference)
10% + 45% = 55% (the original value plus 1/2 the difference)

This gives a Qualified Near Mint of an item that otherwise would grade FAIR a value of 55% the Near Mint price.  In this case $550.

A Qualified Good would be 60%, Very Good would be 70%, etc.

I have been wanting to address the issue of grading for some time (only it seems that I have almost no time do so!)  I envision making my web site a key resource for my grading standards that will be linked to my eBay auctions and also for others to reference.  The more a collectable market moves into greater popularity, the more important it is to have mutally agreed upon standards for grading.  I would like to not only give detailed explanations of the difference grading categories, but also clear scans showing examples of those grades.  

Just no time to write the code and get it done. . . between my full time job, selling on eBay and our 7 week old daughter it just ain't getting done for a some time. . .


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Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 4:28 am 
 

beyondthebreach wrote:...This gives a Qualified Near Mint of an item that otherwise would grade FAIR a value of 55% the Near Mint price.  In this case $550...


Very interesting.  There are lot's of (re)sellers who could do with a lesson in grading.  Or simply learning how to list all those faults that somehow escape their attention e.g. smokey, musty, rusty, etc.

But I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole at $550.  I'd call it fair (10%).  And at $100 I might be tempted to buy it to read.  Then probably sell it again.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:02 am 
 

Breach, I think you have a good system there!
It would be interesting to buy it for my kid and watch him color it in. He's getting really good at staying between the lines.


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Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:23 am 
 

Despite everything I wrote, the problem with the Lost Tsojconth is whether a 3 hole punch is just too severe to be given a Qualified grade.  If the centerfold and a few pages were disconnected from the staples or if there were highlighter/numerous pencil marks or even a long, clean tear going the length of an internal page - then I don't think anyone would have too much of a problem with it.  

The 3 hole punch is just too externally visible for my tastes.  Still, I don't think the seller would be too off base hoping to get around $550. . .  eventually.

Personally, I would be generous and call it a staight out Fair/Good and pay $150 for it.

And for a $150 he better stay between the lines.


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Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:42 am 
 

beyondthebreach wrote:Because of its much larger collector base, the comicbook industry really has taken great strides in defining its grading.  How is a book graded with flaws like Tsojconth?

If it were a comic, it could be given a "Qualified" grade.  So, if the copy of Tsojconth is Near Mint it would be a "Qualified Near Mint".  That essentially means Near Mint except for one extreme flaw (like a page loose from the staples, one long clean tear, an ad cut out, etc.)

What would the value of such a book be?  The Acaeum lists:

Mint - $1,000
Very Good - $650
Poor - $350



The first problem is that the value of a Poor book is severly overstated on the Aceaum site (in my opinion).  Poor books should carry a value of 5% of the Mint grade at the absolute most.  

My own grading scale is based upon the comic industry standards, though the relative values are much higher than comics. (A VERY GOOD comic only carries a value of about 17% of the Near Mint price) All modesty aside, I am an expert grader of comics with extremely stringent and exacting standards.  

Grade           % Value

Near Mint          100%
Excellent            80%
Fine                   60%
Very Good          40%
Good                  20%
Fair                    10%
Poor                    5%

Combination values split the difference so that Excellent/Near Mint is 90% & Good/Very Good is 30%.  True MINT carries a value higher than 100%, but in reality almost all "Mint" items are really Near Mint.

Let's say that three holes completely through a module lower the grade to Fair.  However, these are neatly and deliberately made 3-hole punches so assigning a Qualified Grade would be appropriate - It is a Qualified Near Mint.  

Take half the % difference between Near Mint and Fair and add it to the Fair value.

100% - 10% = 90% (This is the % difference)
1/2 of 90% = 45% (1/2 the %difference)
10% + 45% = 55% (the original value plus 1/2 the difference)

This gives a Qualified Near Mint of an item that otherwise would grade FAIR a value of 55% the Near Mint price.  In this case $550.

A Qualified Good would be 60%, Very Good would be 70%, etc.

I have been wanting to address the issue of grading for some time (only it seems that I have almost no time do so!)  I envision making my web site a key resource for my grading standards that will be linked to my eBay auctions and also for others to reference.  The more a collectable market moves into greater popularity, the more important it is to have mutally agreed upon standards for grading.  I would like to not only give detailed explanations of the difference grading categories, but also clear scans showing examples of those grades.  

Just no time to write the code and get it done. . . between my full time job, selling on eBay and our 7 week old daughter it just ain't getting done for a some time. . .


EXCELLENT INSIGHT!!!  THANKS!!

Agreed.  By the by, if you are looking for another grading/describing purist to help you out with the website idea, I am your man.  The absence of a universal grading scale and the lack of care in grading by most of the Ebay sellers is in part what prompted me to begin my Ebay quest.  Now that I am selling out, I will have a little extra time (course, I will also be picking up time at work..).  I would like to volunteer a portion of this time to assist you if you will have me.


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Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:46 am 
 

johnhuck wrote:

Very interesting.  There are lot's of (re)sellers who could do with a lesson in grading.  Or simply learning how to list all those faults that somehow escape their attention e.g. smokey, musty, rusty, etc.



Agreed.  Perhaps a combination of breach's grading/pricing scale and my format for describing flaws in depth (feel free to check my listings:  eBay listings )would be a lethal combination?!?!  

Any input?


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Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:34 pm 
 

Terminal -

I have never seen one that was three hole punched. No, clearly someone did it to store in a binder.

TSR did produce some modules/products in three hole style B4 came both ways, though I don't recall any other modules...

Still, the three hole Lost Caverns just isn't worth $50 to me. But thats just me.


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

Everything Pacesetter at http://pacesettergames.blog.com/

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Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:59 pm 
 

If the centerfold and a few pages were disconnected from the staples or if there were highlighter/numerous pencil marks or even a long, clean tear going the length of an internal page - then I don't think anyone would have too much of a problem with it.

Staples?


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 5:17 am 
 

Staples?


Staples?  We don't need no stinkin' Staples!  

Geez, don't check your Acaeum product descriptions first and you get called out. . . Guess that's why they "3-hole punched" it.

No escaping the ever watchful eye of  Vigilantelord36.   :P


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 6:46 am 
 

Morgansurname wrote:

By the by, if you are looking for another grading/describing purist to help you out with the website idea, I am your man.




I appreciate the offer for assistance. . . I am sure that I will take you up on it sometime.  When I say I have no time right now, I really don't.  I usually post my replies in the middle of the night from my job (I work nights).  The rest of the time I am just too dog tired and busy to even think about getting it going.

Our daughter still doesn't sleep more than 3 hours at a time. . . usually less.  And my brown haired (with natural red hightlights) wife would probably slit my throat in my sleep if I spent anymore time on the computer than I already do. . .

She is already pretty close to the edge with all the "geek stuff" I have filling up the office. . . the boxes and endless packaging supplies. . . my obsessive categorization and tracking of every lot I purchase (I have created an excel spreadsheet that deducts all my ebay/paypal fees and lets me track how much I make from each purchase and each item). . . the individual bagging of each item. . . the constant and endless scanning of books into the computer . . .

But, enough about me. . . let's talk about me!


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 3:03 am 
 

beyondthebreach wrote:Our daughter still doesn't sleep more than 3 hours at a time. . . usually less.  And my brown haired (with natural red hightlights) wife would probably slit my throat in my sleep if I spent anymore time on the computer than I already do. . .


Hey btb, our son's nearly 11 weeks old now, and he's sleeping 6-10 1/2  hours at night; recently it's been 9-10 1/2 and that's mostly because we're swaddling him.  You might give it a try....


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:09 am 
 

Thanks Gro. . . but I have become a swaddling expert.  The kid is wrapped like a mini-burrito.  

She's been giving us a hard time since she turned breach a month before delivery (makes me wonder about my internet identity. . .)


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