eBay fees
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Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 1:23 pm 
 

OK......... this is one of my all-time most hated things people do on eBay.
A unnamed member of the forum here has some items up for sale, and when I asked about "buyer covers ALL fees", two e-mails later I get the "Paypal and eBay fees".
What the fuck? How cheap can someone get? If I had won one of the auctions (and I was prepared to pay a lot) I would have hit the roof. eBay fees are the responsibility of the SELLER, unless you CLEARLY state this in the auction. And charging Paypal fees violates eBay's rules. They do not allow a surcharge for Paypal payments to be charged to the buyer. After all, they own Paypal and it would hurt their business.
I feel the same way about "handling charges", but that is not against eBay policy, it's just fucking cheap.
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Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 2:22 pm 
 

Deadlord36 wrote:OK......... this is one of my all-time most hated things people do on eBay.
A unnamed member of the forum here has some items up for sale, and when I asked about "buyer covers ALL fees", two e-mails later I get the "Paypal and eBay fees".
What the fuck? How cheap can someone get? If I had won one of the auctions (and I was prepared to pay a lot) I would have hit the roof. eBay fees are the responsibility of the SELLER, unless you CLEARLY state this in the auction. And charging Paypal fees violates eBay's rules. They do not allow a surcharge for Paypal payments to be charged to the buyer. After all, they own Paypal and it would hurt their business.
I feel the same way about "handling charges", but that is not against eBay policy, it's just fucking cheap.
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First time I encountered this I was a bit miffed too.  I guess it's a common practice with eBay UK.



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Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 2:27 pm 
 

It seems to be common in eBay UK auctions so I guess it's legal by those rules.  It does strike me as being a tad tacky and I would steer clear of an auction that asked for extra Paypal fees unless I really, really wanted that particular item.  Otherwise, I'd just calcuate it within my bidding parameters for that particular item.  I've never seen a seller ask for eBay fees as well, but that would be pretty outrageous, and I believe against eBay rules in any milieu.

  


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Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 3:10 pm 
 

I could care less what a seller chooses to tack on, as long as it's clearly stated in the auction description.  I hate surprises when the auction is over.  

I always account for shipping and handling charges before I bid so if a seller wants to charge a $20 flat rate in shipping charges to sell a module and ship via media mail, I just factor that into my final bid price.  The same amount of money leaves my pocket in the end either way so what do I care how they choose to dress it up?  The bait and switch element is minor and forgiveable in most cases.

What I can't stand are reserve auctions, ridiculously high minimum bids and BIN's all designed to devour newbays.  
With the exception of very rare items, whenever I click an auction and see "reserve price not met" I immediately hit "back" on my browser just move along.  It's insulting to me to have to waste my time coming up with a reasonable bid only to find out the asshole wants $250 for a sixth print PHB.  

I think you should give the sellers who explain why they want the extra money a little bit of credit.  At least they're honest.  Sellers who use reserves and high minimums are trying to get their fees covered too but don't have the balls to be up front about it.  
Why ebay allows reserve auctions I'll never understand.  At best, the listed minimum bid on reserve auction is ebay sanctioned false advertising.  The least they could do is have an icon in the listing header that stands for reserve price not met, similar to the icons that show whether there's a picture included or not.


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Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 3:13 pm 
 

Well, the auction was VERY unclear as to exactly what the fees were (5%, BTW).
It isn't England. All I can say is it is a Mediterranean country shaped like a boot.........


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Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 3:18 pm 
 

Deadlord36 wrote:Well, the auction was VERY unclear as to exactly what the fees were (5%, BTW).
It isn't England. All I can say is it is a Mediterranean country shaped like a boot.........


ROFL.......that kind of gives it away  :)



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Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 5:10 pm 
 

... Dang those French!
:roll:  :wink:


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Post Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 1:01 am 
 

Actually, you can't charge sellers for the Paypal fees, unless something changed and I never read it.  I used to list a $1 fee for credit cards via Paypal (since you get hit w/ like $1.50 or so, forget offhand).  I actually got a ton of stuff de-listed because somebody got a bug up their ass about it (and didn't bother mailing me first).
Granted, getting a response from eBay...  good luck...

  


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Post Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 3:31 am 
 

In the UK there is nothing to stop you adding a surcharge for PayPal.  But time is running out...

Amendment to eBay.co.uk Surcharge Listing Policy - 6th June, 2004

On Sunday, 6th June, 2004, eBay.co.uk will be amending its current Surcharge Listing Policy. eBay will adopt the following surcharging policy in the interests of ensuring that all buyers receive clear and accurate pricing information when trading on eBay.co.uk. This surcharge policy applies only to items listed on eBay.co.uk.

eBay will prohibit surcharging by sellers except where described below.  Surcharging occurs when sellers pass the charges they incur for using eBay or third party services such as payment services onto buyers.

Specific examples are explained below for your guidance:

1. Electronic Money Services
Sellers who accept electronic money services as a means of payment for an item purchased on eBay, may not impose a surcharge. Electronic money services include, but are not limited to, services such as PayPal, Nochex, FastPay or Moneybookers.

2. Cheques and Money Order
Sellers may not charge buyers an additional fee for their use of ordinary forms of payment, including acceptance of cheques and money orders.

3. eBay Fees
Sellers may not pass onto buyers any eBay selling fees including but not limited to listing fees, listing enhancement fees and final value fees.

Exceptions to the Surcharge Policy:

1. Credit and Debit Card Payments: Surcharging is permitted where sellers accept credit or debit cards as a means of payment for an item purchased on eBay. Such sellers will have merchant accounts with a bank or credit card company.

These sellers may not pass on to the buyer a charge greater than the amount of the commission payable by the seller to the bank processing that credit or debit card payment. In other words, sellers may recoup the charges incurred as a direct consequence of accepting the credit or debit card, but no more.

Please note that under English law, sellers have a legal right to pass onto the buyer the charges incurred for a credit or debit card transaction. However, this right does not apply to electronic money services. Where a credit or debit card is used to purchase electronic money to fund a transaction made via an electronic money service such as the ones listed above, this is not a credit or debit card transaction, but an electronic money service transaction.

2. Posting and Handling: Sellers may add a reasonable posting and handling fee to the final price of their item, providing that this fee is disclosed up front in the listing. A posting and handling fee can cover only the seller's reasonable costs for mailing, packaging and handling the item. Posting and handling fees cannot be listed as a percentage of the final sale price.

3. Escrow: Sellers may pass along the costs associated with using a third party escrow service, if the buyer chooses to use an escrow service and if the costs are disclosed and agreed to in advance by the buyer.

4. Different Currencies: Sellers may choose to accept payment in a different currency than the currency listed on eBay. If the buyer chooses to take advantage of this optional payment method, the seller may pass along to the buyer any costs associated with the currency exchange, provided that the costs are disclosed and agreed to in advance by the buyer.


Hope that clears that up.  I suppose that there might be differences in other footwear shaped countries dependent on local laws.

As a seller I expect the agent of the sale to deduct their fees (eBay listing and final value fees).  I want to sell the item and that is the price for the service.  However, what is left I expect to receive in full.  So, if the buyer chooses to pay me by a method which incurs a cost to me, then I expect the buyer to pick up that cost.

I must admit that it is cheap.  But in my defence I am a Yorkshireman.  And we are renowned for being careful with our money only slightly less than the Scottish. :wink: But passing on the cost of the listing fees is pretty tight.  I doubt even a Scotsman would stoop so low.

I have never charged a handling fee and I always try and recycle packaging so as not to have to charge for that.

Given the change to the UK rules I will drop my PayPal surcharge in June and probably add a flat handling fee of 50p.

It does annoy me that eBay increased their fees when they get you twice; for listing and for payment.  Nay, thrice.  If you want to withdraw the money.

  

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Post Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 4:37 am 
 

Deadlord36 wrote:Well, the auction was VERY unclear as to exactly what the fees were (5%, BTW).
It isn't England. All I can say is it is a Mediterranean country shaped like a boot.........

There is no secret. I am the one from the boot shaped country (Italy for you Americans  :D ) asking for a contribution for PayPal and EBay fees. I don't see it as a scandal. Often when I buy sellers ask me for a partial coverage of auction costs (especially for PayPal costs) and so I decided to use this clause too. If someone doesn't agree, then he shouldn't bid. I prefer being honest - I hate when I'm saddled with obscene 'shipping and handling costs' hiding refunds for various costs and the attempt to squeeze some more money... For example, I buy often lots of four - eight Magic cards and I frequently receive a shipping bill for $ 3.00. When the envelope arrives here in Boot Shaped Land  :D  the stamps are between $ 0.90 and $ 1.60. I can understand that the buyer is attempting to get some money more, but this is too much. Of course, complaining with Paypal and EBay has no usefulness...

  

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Post Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 4:48 am 
 

Deadlord36 wrote:OK......... this is one of my all-time most hated things people do on eBay.
A unnamed member of the forum here has some items up for sale, and when I asked about "buyer covers ALL fees", two e-mails later I get the "Paypal and eBay fees".

Almost forgot... There is no problem in questioning my selling policies and telling my name. I'm not so unsure to feel offended if somebody doesn't agree with me. I enjoy public debate, so if anybody will wish now or in the future to question my policies, feel free to do so and to to say explicitely "I'm talking about you, Sotterraneo!"  :wink:

  

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Post Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 9:34 am 
 

You? I meant a different Italian....


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Post Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 9:52 am 
 

In the US its illegal to charge people more for using a different methods of payment, so ebay must follow those rules for this country.

Anyhow it is NOT illegal to pass along the cost of a currency exchange fee if someone wont be paying in US funds (and I am sure vice versa).  I do that myself.

To be honest I could care less what they try to charge as long as it is stated clearly in the auction.  If it seems too ridiculous I just wont bid on it.


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Post Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 10:09 am 
 

myalbinogorilla wrote:I could care less what a seller chooses to tack on, as long as it's clearly stated in the auction description.  I hate surprises when the auction is over.  

I always account for shipping and handling charges before I bid so if a seller wants to charge a $20 flat rate in shipping charges to sell a module and ship via media mail, I just factor that into my final bid price.  The same amount of money leaves my pocket in the end either way so what do I care how they choose to dress it up?  The bait and switch element is minor and forgiveable in most cases.

What I can't stand are reserve auctions, ridiculously high minimum bids and BIN's all designed to devour newbays.  
With the exception of very rare items, whenever I click an auction and see "reserve price not met" I immediately hit "back" on my browser just move along.  It's insulting to me to have to waste my time coming up with a reasonable bid only to find out the asshole wants $250 for a sixth print PHB.  

I think you should give the sellers who explain why they want the extra money a little bit of credit.  At least they're honest.  Sellers who use reserves and high minimums are trying to get their fees covered too but don't have the balls to be up front about it.  
Why ebay allows reserve auctions I'll never understand.  At best, the listed minimum bid on reserve auction is ebay sanctioned false advertising.  The least they could do is have an icon in the listing header that stands for reserve price not met, similar to the icons that show whether there's a picture included or not.


    I agree with all the above. As long as all fees are clearly stated upfront, there should be no cause for complaint. My shipping fees are flat rates and clearly stated.  As  a newbie on Ebay, I got burned more than once because I bid without noticing the seller was charging $10 to ship a module (in the days before you could cancel bids, ouch).   Now like AG I factor shipping into my bidding price.  
    Reserve auctions are idiotic.  I won't bid in them, they are a waste of time.

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Post Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 11:42 am 
 

Deadlord36 wrote:You? I meant a different Italian....

Are you sure? I'm the one selling the Furioso adventure and I have the 5% refund policy. Perhaps there are two guys from Bootland  :D  with same sales policy...

  


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Post Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 11:47 am 
 

AFAIK, in the U.S. (and at the very least California), it's not "Illegal" to charge different amounts for different payment types as long as you tell the customers what the charges are.

However, in the case of Credit Cards, it violates the merchant account agreement to charge more for a credit card purchase (and they ding you for 3-4%).  

The reason for the policy is that they don't want people using CC#'s as 'second class' money.  They want us charging up a storm, collecting their 4% on the front end and their 18% compounded interest on the back end.

I would love to own a credit card company! :)

(And did you know, Visa is a non-profit corporation?  It boggles the mind!)


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Post Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 3:23 pm 
 

That credit card thing is nation-wide. Gas stations used to gouge credit card customers  for using them. Then the hammer came down. Now, we all pay the increased amount, I'm sure.


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

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Post Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 7:20 pm 
 

ha ha !! It is a UN conspiracy - no doubt they are getting all the spare %age points which they squirrel off to their Geneva bank accounts for spending on secret armies...

  

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Post Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 8:16 pm 
 

Uh...yeah...

It is not a conspiracy, well not anymore anyway. Since you are in the UK, I can only assume you did not experience the "cash" discount days at gas stations here in the U.S.  It was fact, someone else will back me up here...right guys...anyone...anyone...


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

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Post Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 8:19 pm 
 

You got 4 cents a gallon back if you paid cash. I remember.


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