Vigilanteism and Ebay
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 2 of 31, 2, 3
Author

User avatar

Verbose Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 1709
Joined: Feb 04, 2004
Last Visit: Aug 23, 2016
Location: Chandler, AZ

Post Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 11:30 pm 
 

Vigilante justice.

Ex-Marine.

Plays by his owns rules.

War wounds.

Frank, now come clean. . . is your last name really Castle?




(aka The Punisher for you non-comic collectors)

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 5645
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Last Visit: Sep 19, 2021
Location: New Hampsha

Post Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 8:03 am 
 

You have me there. I don't know who he is (obviously a movie/TV character?).


If you hit a Rowsdower, you get to keep it.

 WWW  

User avatar

Verbose Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 1709
Joined: Feb 04, 2004
Last Visit: Aug 23, 2016
Location: Chandler, AZ

Post Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 8:09 am 
 

Marvel Comics. . . The Punisher.

Geez and I thought D&D and comic collecting always went together (at least a little bit).

"Frank Castle was in Central Park with his family when they got caught in the crossfire of an Organized crime war.  Vowing vengeance against all criminals he became the Punisher, etc, etc."

They just released a real shitty movie about it a few weeks ago. . .



(unless you are just trying to throw me off track by "pretending" ignorance?  hmmm)

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 5645
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Last Visit: Sep 19, 2021
Location: New Hampsha

Post Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 4:09 pm 
 

Of course I am.
Frank Farris was in New Hampshire with his collection when they were caught in the crossfire of PDF sales, which devaluated his collection. Vowing revenge, he became....... (fill in the blank).


If you hit a Rowsdower, you get to keep it.

 WWW  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 350
Joined: Feb 19, 2003
Last Visit: Apr 03, 2018
Location: CA

Post Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 5:24 pm 
 

But to follow the Punisher Theme completely you will then have to expand your wrath to resellers and, ultimately, buyers as 'part of the problem'.

BTW, Ultimately, the Punisher decides Humanity is the cause of evil and kills everyone. (Latest Garth Ennis one-shot).

Don't go that Far Frank! :)


-------------------------------------------------

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 5645
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Last Visit: Sep 19, 2021
Location: New Hampsha

Post Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 5:59 pm 
 

I'm not quite ready yet to break out the SKS. Although, the voices keep whispering to me.........
So have we reached a verdict on this or what?


If you hit a Rowsdower, you get to keep it.

 WWW  

User avatar

Prolific Collector

Posts: 563
Joined: Aug 08, 2003
Last Visit: Jun 05, 2020
Location: Chicago

Post Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 6:47 pm 
 

I think PD's suggestion was pretty sound.... his idea that any PDF auctions are noted on here and at the same time reported to WotC. Then if the auction is still running 24 hours later, do what you have to do.

I think the consensus seems to be that suspected shilling should be dealt with cautiously with no direct action, but anyone who sells photocopies or PDFs is fair game and deserves a large amount of auction interference.

Regards

Mike

  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 350
Joined: Feb 19, 2003
Last Visit: Apr 03, 2018
Location: CA

Post Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 2:30 am 
 

SO let me take a stab at 'rules of engagement'

CASE #1:
PDF Resellers

Report to WOTC And Ebay.  I suppose multiple reports to WOTC and Ebay are okay? (or should we only report once?)

Report here once so we know it's gotten nabbed.

Also, Shill/BIN Immediately for those who know how to do this without getting in trouble.

Report that here too?


CASE #2:
Misleading Auctions with Suspected Shill Bids

Since shilling Does Not Work with BIN, we should have some time.

Don't act right away.

Report the auction here and let the group take what action it will (PurpleDragon research comes to mind) to find out if it looks suspicious.

If the auction is misleading (ULTRA RARE for B2 etc..) write the seller asking them to make it more appropriate. (For this on it's own though, I say we don't take any agressive action.. it's just 'marketing')

If the auction is a LIE, write the author and ask them to correct the inaccuracies.  Give them 24 hours to revise/cancel the auction.  If no action, Shillbomb them.

If the seller appears to be using sockpuppet shillers to drive the price up, report to Ebay, and shillbomb AND warn any legit buyers of 'second chance offers' and the shilling that went on.

We have to be 100% sure before shillbombing an auction.

We should also contact any 'legit buyers' who are getting sucked into the auction so they don't accidently bid up the item against the shiller.


-------------------------------------------------

  


Prolific Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 905
Joined: Apr 09, 2003
Last Visit: Nov 09, 2015
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

Post Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 4:14 am 
 

Report to WOTC once, then post in the copyright thread on this forum. That way, Mr. Smith receives only one email and that's enough.

I disagree about bidding on any items with suspected shilling, unless you were involved before the shilling started. Email the bidders. Let them take their actions. If enough people complain to eBay, the shiller will get kicked. I've seen it working before, why should it not work in the future?


- "When the going gets weird, the Weird turn pro."

Hunter S. Thompson (July 18, 1937 - Feb 20, 2005)



  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 193
Joined: Nov 05, 2002
Last Visit: Jul 18, 2012
Location: Charleston, SC

Post Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 8:46 am 
 

I agree with Ralf, I think it would be wisest to contact the bidders in the case of suspected shill bidding, but otherwise stay out of it.

As for sellers violating copyright laws, make their life hell.  24 hours seems sufficiently fair to me.

 WWW  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 5645
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Last Visit: Sep 19, 2021
Location: New Hampsha

Post Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 10:16 am 
 

Sounds good. PDF's/photocopies are my main gripe anyways. Iluvdnd will retire (having taken 4 HP worth of damage), and his son will rise from his ashes.


If you hit a Rowsdower, you get to keep it.

 WWW  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 172
Joined: Feb 14, 2003
Last Visit: Sep 29, 2007
Location: Salem, MA

Post Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 3:39 pm 
 

I really do not think that we should involve ourselves in shill auctions beyond informing the buyers and pointing them here to the evidence. The problem is you do not know if you will be the high bidder, or even if you are, if second chance offers will be made etc. If a large quantity of evidence develops then it should be forwarded to ebay. The problem with making an accusation to ebay is they tend to ignore it if it is only a buyer only bidding on one sellers items. It requires a distict set of behaviors (almost always losing after gradual bid ups, second chance offers by the seller in auction which have a possible shill account involved, etc).

The key to successful shill intervention is informing and convincing the buyer while he still has a chance to cancel his bid.

-PD

  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 350
Joined: Feb 19, 2003
Last Visit: Apr 03, 2018
Location: CA

Post Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 7:37 pm 
 

Ok...

SO, to ammend the above.  We don't ever, under any circumstances endorse ShillBombing an auction because it might be shilled already.


-------------------------------------------------

  

User avatar

Long-Winded Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 3861
Joined: Feb 21, 2004
Last Visit: Jul 20, 2021
Location: Milford, Michigan

Post Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 9:46 pm 
 

I'm going to put my last two cents in on this one.

Ebay will NOT police itself. Shill bidding is downright fraud and it occurs all too often to be ignored. It damages our little niche.

If the governing authority will not take steps to alleviate the problem, then we either ignore it - and let it spread and expand - or we step up and confront the offender. If a certain individual wants to attack the problem on his or her own terms, so be it. I'm not going to judge them for taking a (moral) stand. Damn it, hasn't any read Bill Bennett's "Why We Fight"???

Or.......We could call the UN - ebay for food, anyone.


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

Everything Pacesetter at http://pacesettergames.blog.com/

 WWW  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 5645
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Last Visit: Sep 19, 2021
Location: New Hampsha

Post Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 6:36 pm 
 

Um, Rafl, would you feel differently if I was buying auctions from game emporium and leaving negatives? Is THAT justified vigilateism?


If you hit a Rowsdower, you get to keep it.

 WWW  


Prolific Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 905
Joined: Apr 09, 2003
Last Visit: Nov 09, 2015
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

Post Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 7:31 pm 
 

I think it is important to act only when you yourself can claim a damage. If some people get shilled, you cannot claim any damage, thus you have no right to take measures other than to inform bidders and eBay. In case of copyright infringements, things are a little different. You might be able to claim a damage (e.g. if you own the item some seller offers as PDF). Then, you should inform WOTC to get the auction cancelled. If the PDF auction has a BIN or runs 1 day only, I wouldn't speak against you, if you ended the auction through buying (and not paying).

It is totally different, if you yourself have been involved in the auction. If you buy an item and get cheated (seller not sending, sending with immense delay, sending wrong stuff etc.), of course you leave a negative and what should be wrong about that? You are expected to do that. If you paid Game Emporium and he cheated you, the normal reaction would be to leave a negative feedback. That's what I did.


- "When the going gets weird, the Weird turn pro."

Hunter S. Thompson (July 18, 1937 - Feb 20, 2005)



  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 5645
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Last Visit: Sep 19, 2021
Location: New Hampsha

Post Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 11:15 pm 
 

Aight, Ralphie, just remember I am willing to go the extra mile for you despite your hatred of me! 8)


If you hit a Rowsdower, you get to keep it.

 WWW  


Prolific Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 905
Joined: Apr 09, 2003
Last Visit: Nov 09, 2015
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 3:37 am 
 

Hatred is such a strong word, Frank. Yes, you made me angry on some occasions. It is also obvious we don't like each other and have very different opinions most of the time, but I reserve hatred for those who really hurt me or those close to me. Currently, I do not hate anybody and haven't done so for a long time. I'd like to keep it that way.


- "When the going gets weird, the Weird turn pro."

Hunter S. Thompson (July 18, 1937 - Feb 20, 2005)



  


Sage Collector
JG Valuation Board

Posts: 2753
Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Last Visit: Sep 22, 2021
Location: Olde London Towne

Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 6:29 am 
 

eh?  what is Bill Bennett's "Why We Fight"???

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 5645
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Last Visit: Sep 19, 2021
Location: New Hampsha

Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 1:17 pm 
 

I like you just fine, Ralf, believe it or not. The measure of a man is not in the strength of his friends, but in the strength of his enemies. Just because we strongly differ on opinions does not mean I am right or you are. Even though I AM right...........


If you hit a Rowsdower, you get to keep it.

 WWW  
PreviousNext
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 2 of 31, 2, 3