A Somewhat Perplexing Auction Now on Ebay...
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Grandstanding Collector

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Post Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:14 am 
 

Absolutely. That was a shill bid, guaranteed. Tell them thanks, but you don't want it, and then if they offer it to you for a little less, you know it was a shill.


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Post Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:36 am 
 

Ok Dave, I just reconsidered by entire thesis on hoard/save/resell.

Check out  the string on Spellfire cards. 8O

If people are actually paying money for those damn things, then anything goes. :wink:

White OCE boxes, here I come... 8O  8O  8O  8O


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

Everything Pacesetter at http://pacesettergames.blog.com/

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:54 am 
 

Dude.. they were trying to shill you... make sure you had your max bid out and then try to bring you higher....


Tell them thanks, but you don't want it, and then if they offer it to you for a little less, you know it was a shill.


You guys were right...  I turned them down, and they came back with another (veiled) offer.  Scummy.

  


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:37 am 
 

If we are to assume that David was being shilled with that auction then it is safe to assume that there was shilling when:

tclayton won this auction and thebb725 shilled it up to $495
cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem& ... 3176615541

and David was shilled to $450 by thebb725
cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem& ... 3178638584

and was again shilled to $275 by thebb725
cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem& ... 3179983522

thebb725 currently has the high bid on 5 of Burnie's auctions. Naturally, I am not suggesting that Burnie is shilling, just that a shill is playing with his auctions and he may want to take some action to deal with this thebb jerk,

thebb725 has been bidding on the auctions of several different sellers and may be a rogue mischief maker or, and this is my opinion, someone that is deliberately trying to manipulate prices (reseller?).

There is also another shill at work here by the name of  neilflora201. This person went toe to toe with David for this auction and shilled him up over $500.
cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem& ... 3180149089

This is the same person that teamed with thebb725 to shill the original auction in question up to $405.

neilflora is also currently at work shilling this auction with another potential shiller by the name of gfossum1uw3:

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem& ... 3182406083

There is one interesting possible shill in all of this, kipironbeard. It seems that the only auctions this person is interested in are those of rangifertarandus. He also did a fine job of  bidding up tclayton on a 1977 monster/treasure assortment and David on that $635 white box.
cgi6.ebay.com/ws1/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAP ... mp;rows=25
Any thoughts on this?

  

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:58 am 
 

If we are to assume that David was being shilled with that auction then it is safe to assume that there was shilling when:


Great job PurpleDragon!!  Very nice detective work  :) !!  Looks like a lot of shill bidding has been going on  8O .



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Post Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:35 am 
 

Some have already suggested this, now PD comes up with this. What do we learn about it? Always trust your first instinct.


- "When the going gets weird, the Weird turn pro."

Hunter S. Thompson (July 18, 1937 - Feb 20, 2005)



  

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:53 am 
 

I went ahead and removed his(thebb725) bids and blocked him from bidding again. It looks like he was a shill bidder. Since I cancled his bids it looks like there may be a few bargains to be had from me. Bid if you are interested :) .

  


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 8:32 am 
 

Thanks for the information.  If I've been duped, I really don't know what to do about it now.  I guess I will just pay more attention to this in the future.  This news combined with my overbidding streak, I guess has taught me a good lesson.

Thanks for the info.

Todd

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:03 am 
 

There's plenty you can do about it. Talk to eBay. Get the contact info and get in touch with the shiller. If it's a dead address, pursue it further. I mean, it's up to you, but if someone ripped ME off like that, I'd be on their doorstep.
David, do yourself a favor and turn the seller in.


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:25 am 
 

Yeah, don't lay down on this one Tclayton!

They really, really did commit a crime against you.  It was fraud.  

They presented an offer to you 'Be the high bidder and you win this product', entered into an agreement with Ebay to use their service (no shilling) and then artificially raised the price on you based on your assumption it was a fair auction.

CRIME!

I doubt anyone has gotten jail time for this on Ebay, but you should be able to get your money back from the seller and get Ebay to jump up and down on their cranium.

Get PurpleDragon on the case!  He did some mighty fine detective work!

If you don't want to do it for yourself.. do it for the 'little guys' who don't know they are getting ripped off.


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:09 pm 
 

Take one for the team, man! Think of the possibilities....
You report him to eBay.
eBay finds out he's been doing this for years.
After investigating, eBay discovers he's an international fraud criminal with a long history who has eluded Scotland Yard for a long time.
He is tracked down and arrested, and he is caught with 12 stolen copies of ST1, 5 orange B3's, and 3 1st print brown boxes.
Since the owners cannot be found, Scotland Yard gives you one of each as a reward.
The Queen declares you a Knight of the Realm, and Sean Connery (himshelf) is present at the knighting, where he introduces you to his blonde 23 year old RPG playing daughter, who is a full-time international model and has an insatiable appetite for deviant sex.
After 2 weeks, mostly spent gaming and "watching the submarine races", you marry her and move into the 38 room mansion that Daddy bought as a wedding present, along with the Ferrari (purchased from Burnie), and the complete collection of every RPG item ever printed in the world, including foreign editions.
The wife leaves on a 1 year modeling tour, but has her 2 blonde friends move in to "keep you satisfied", since she loves to share with her lifelong friends. They both LOVE RPG's, and love to listen to your ruminations about frost giants while you sit in your overstuffed recliner before the blazing fire, sipping 120 year old brandy and smoking Nicaraguan cigars (better than Cubans).

Or......

eBay investigates the man.
He turns out to be F. Lee Bailey.
He sues you for slander, winning a $100 million dollar judgement. In addition, he persuades his friends at the IRS to thoroughly audit you.
After the audit, it is determined that you were short by $22.17 on your 2001 taxes. The IRS hires F. Lee Bailey to prosecute. You wind up with a hangman judge, who sentences you to 10 years hard labor. You are placed in a maximum security prison and forced to dig ditches 14 hours a day, until you are completely exhausted, whereupon they return you to your cell. Here you are subjected to the attentions of your 6' 6", 285 pound roommate named Bubba, who is proportionately large in all areas. Upon serving your 10 year sentence, you emerge to find your wife has left you for F. Lee Bailey, taking all of your worldly possessions and selling your RPG collection (gasp!). Destitute, you wind up on the streets, bumming change in order to buy the next bottle of Thunderbird, with which you proceed to erase your troubled existence. Inevitably you perish in a pile of cat vomit and human feces in a stinking alley, where your corpse is gnawed to the bone by giant rats (each bite of course having a 5% chance to inflict disease, but it doesn't matter at this point). What is left behind is picked up by the garbage collectors and brought to the city dump, where your restless ghost wanders the lot eternally.

As I said, the possibilities are endless.


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:26 pm 
 

The problem with this scenario is that only one of those shill accounts appears to be by the seller, kipironbeard by rangifertarandus. The other ones just seem to be either random, directed at white boxes, specific bidders to drive up the amount they to pay, or just to manipulate the market.

I will continue to try to untangle this whole mess and post any updates as necessary. My greatest fear is that this shilling is even more rampant than it appears...as a buyer, how can you trust the ebey format to give you a fair price/venue for rare items that can easily be shilled?

-PD

  


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:30 pm 
 

Deadlord36 wrote:After investigating, eBay discovers he's an international fraud criminal with a long history who has eluded Scotland Yard for a long time.


Firstly NO-ONE eludes Scotland Yard!!

and Secondly

*WOW* Some imagination Frank!
Did you buy a consignment of Magic mushrooms on Ebay or something?

:-) :-)

  

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:38 pm 
 

Well, he emailed me and wanted to know why he was removed as a bidder and blocked. He stated that he has only won the OCE and had just sent the payment. He wasn't very happy. What are the odds of the OCE seller having two sets with all those supplements? I removed the block and if he bids again and doesn't pay at the end we will all know that he is a shill. At that time I will report him to eBay.

BTW: Do not worry, if he never pays I will sell to the next highest bidder and act like his bid was never placed.

Hey David van Wie, what was the internet sevice of the OCE collector set seller. I would like to check it against thebb725's. PM me if you don't want to post it in the forum. Did the seller state that thebb725 didn't pay?

  

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:19 pm 
 

That is why I am always elected to DM. Active mind.


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:01 pm 
 

kipironbeard is obviously a shill by rangifertarandus, I would be careful about naming the others as shills though as there is no real pattern or proof.

Perhaps merpluva needs to "educate" rangifertarandus about what shilling is all about.

  

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:33 pm 
 

Are my services required here? I am ready and willing to answer the call to doody!


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:06 pm 
 

The problem with the concept of disregarding the bidding of a shill if he wins and does not pay is that winning is not the intent of a shill. His goal is to lose the auction and just drive up the price for the winner. So if we assume he is a shill (note the term assume, because that is necessary in any study to determine under which the end-result is either true or false*), then all of his conduct within an auction must be suspect; and even if he loses the auction, which is his intent, the auction has been tainted simply by his participation.

Therefore, if anyone believes that thebb725 is a shill bidder then they should not participate in any of the auctions in which thebb725 has made any bids. It is his intention to make you pay more for the item and not to win it for himself. Once again, that is based upon the assumption that he is a shill bidder.

-PD

* In the book  The Bell Curve, the author states in his assumptions that:

SAT scores are an accurate indicator of a person's intelligence.

From that assumption and others, the author draws the conclusion that certain racial groups are less intelligent than caucasians. Now if you accept that his assumptions are true, then his conclusion is correct. However, if you disagree with his assumptions, then his entire book is only good for lining waste-paper basekets and birdcages. Since I believe that SAT scores only reflect ones ability to prepare and take a multiple choice/guess test and not ones actual intelligence, The Bell Curve is pretty much worthless.

  

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Post Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 4:53 pm 
 

Bagged.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 3173051434

Look at the feedback. Both left feedback for each other 4 days after the auction ended, within 4 hours of each other. It's a shill account.


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Post Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 5:47 pm 
 

I wanted to post here again because the longer I thought about what I said in the above the more troubled I became. It comes across that I am asking people to boycott Burnie's auctions and that is the last thing that I would want to see.

Here is another benefit of sniping...you cannot be shilled with any degree of certainty upon the part of the shiller (unless he is only there to create a quasi-reserve price).

-PD

  
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