Interesting Items Previously on eBay
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies. Page 28 of 96123 ... 25, 26, 27, 28, 29 ... 949596
Author


Prolific Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 905
Joined: Apr 09, 2003
Last Visit: Nov 09, 2015
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

Post Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 7:42 pm 
 

Deadlord36 wrote:Prepub looks like a fake.


With pre-publication material, how can one be totally sure that it's not a fake? Even an autograph could be faked. If the seller comes up with all the other material he promises, chances are that his story is true. The story is weird, sure, but seems consistent otherwise. If this prepub is authentic, it's certainly one of the most fascinating discoveries of AD&D material over the last years. If it's a fake ... well, who's gonna take the risk? Any bets on the outcome yet? I think, it might break the $1.000 mark.


- "When the going gets weird, the Weird turn pro."

Hunter S. Thompson (July 18, 1937 - Feb 20, 2005)



  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 5634
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Last Visit: Jul 20, 2021
Location: New Hampsha

Post Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:31 am 
 

Ummm, yeah, he slipped his copy into a filing cabinet and left it there. And, according to him, it's been "packaged tightly" to account for the new smell..... by Kinko's?
Too fishy for me. I don't get much into prepubs anyways.
Stormie, are you in for this one?


If you hit a Rowsdower, you get to keep it.

 WWW  


Prolific Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 754
Joined: Feb 05, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 31, 2021

Post Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 10:54 am 
 

Howdy,


Deadlord36 wrote:Ummm, yeah, he slipped his copy into a filing cabinet and left it there. And, according to him, it's been "packaged tightly" to account for the new smell..... by Kinko's?
Too fishy for me. I don't get much into prepubs anyways.
Stormie, are you in for this one?


Hey now! I've been bitten once already this month... April Fools are no fun...


Futures Bright,

Paul


The Collector's Trove The online auction house that features the collections of game designers and artists.

 WWW  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 350
Joined: Feb 19, 2003
Last Visit: Apr 03, 2018
Location: CA

Post Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 12:25 pm 
 

I have no idea if it's authentic but the guy has run up a decent score on his feedback (324) with no negatives... It would seem to me that amount of work and time would preclude someone from faking ON PURPOSE.  Not to say he might have been duped years ago and innocently carries on the dupe.

Or it's legit... or is a legitimate 'pirated copy' from the days of yore when getting something photocopied WAS pirating it and perhaps was the best way to get the item distributed for a legitimate con.

The real question is in content.  Are there any differences in this copy vs the 'Known' R-1/RPGA-1?

Arrrgh... Confound Ebayers and their incomplete descriptions!


-------------------------------------------------

  

User avatar

Verbose Collector
Acaeum Donor
Valuation Board

Posts: 1148
Joined: Nov 07, 2003
Last Visit: Jul 23, 2021
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Post Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 2:49 pm 
 

R2: THE INVESTIGATION OF HYDELL - - SHRINK-WRAP, MINT
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 3187206462
10 days with no reserve.  Current bid is $43.00.  Same seller as the "To the Aid of Falx" modules (kdkdkd).  States he will be posting more rare stuff.

kdkdkd | eBay



 WWW  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 171
Joined: Apr 02, 2003
Last Visit: Feb 16, 2005
Location: Maryland, USA

Post Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 5:01 pm 
 

Just email him...  he's quite pleasant, and I'm inclined to think that he's legit.  He was quite active on the RPGA scene in the early years.

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 5634
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Last Visit: Jul 20, 2021
Location: New Hampsha

Post Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 5:30 pm 
 

"Also, my module mentions that this was used at GenCon South in February 1981 but, unlike their copy, makes no mention of it ALSO then being used at GenCon East in July 1981. These two things make it appear that my module is an earlier version of the one shown on the Acaeum site."

SO let me get this straight. He served as head gamemaster at Muscacon I, and they sent him a copy which says GenCon South. GenCon South was in February. Muscacon would have had to be in January at best, in order for the GC South info to be there. Also, why would they send it to playtest at a con when it had already been used at South?
Fishy...........


If you hit a Rowsdower, you get to keep it.

 WWW  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 171
Joined: Apr 02, 2003
Last Visit: Feb 16, 2005
Location: Maryland, USA

Post Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 3:48 am 
 

If you've ever had to deal w/ RPGA before, they can be complete tightwads when it comes to money (they have to be...  they are ALWAYS underfunded by TSR/WotC).  I'm guessing that this is a spare copy they threw his way rather than whip up a totally new one.  It could be something like a "draft" that got accidentally sent out.
It's also been what, 13 or so years?  He could be getting his Cons mixed up.  Like I said, have you emailed the guy and said "I think you are a fraud, prove me otherwise or the gig is up."?
Also, from my research, quite a few Con modules got alot of play elsewhere from where they first premiered...  look at the current RPGA module schedules, its why they usually use the term "first run" now to denote a premier.
If I had any money, I'd bet that this puppy is legit.

  

User avatar

Verbose Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 1224
Joined: Mar 08, 2003
Last Visit: Jul 25, 2021
Location: Close to GenCon

Post Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:19 am 
 

This is just a Tourney copy. It isn't a Pre-Pub. He is just being a little misleading using the term "Pre-Pub", although it was produced prior to the published version.

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 5634
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Last Visit: Jul 20, 2021
Location: New Hampsha

Post Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:09 pm 
 

Hmmm. If it is "just a tourney copy", then I imagine it is rarer than an actual numbered pre-pub, and worth more.


If you hit a Rowsdower, you get to keep it.

 WWW  

User avatar

Verbose Collector
Valuation Board

Posts: 1969
Joined: Nov 16, 2002
Last Visit: Jul 25, 2021
Location: Ohio, The land without sun

Post Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 1:11 pm 
 

Deadlord36 wrote:Hmmm. If it is "just a tourney copy", then I imagine it is rarer than an actual numbered pre-pub, and worth more.


I would disagree with that assessment.  It looks like the copy being offered currently is, in fact, a duplicate of an "official pre-pub" based on the condition.  Since there is no way to verify its authenticity it's no better than a copy produced by anyone else for use in a convention.  The only value it really has is that it is a copy of a rare item, which is still very difficult to come by, and it does have some "provenance", or history to back it up.  I would be hesitant to throw too much money at such an item...

  


Prolific Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 905
Joined: Apr 09, 2003
Last Visit: Nov 09, 2015
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

Post Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 2:55 pm 
 

burntwire wrote:This is just a Tourney copy. It isn't a Pre-Pub. He is just being a little misleading using the term "Pre-Pub", although it was produced prior to the published version.


Wait a second, I get a little confused here. If this is not a pre-pub version, why do we call the R1, R2 and R3 "pre-publication"? Page Not Found

Weren't they used in these tournaments? Or were they just sold during the tournaments, but not actually used?


- "When the going gets weird, the Weird turn pro."

Hunter S. Thompson (July 18, 1937 - Feb 20, 2005)



  

User avatar

Verbose Collector
Valuation Board

Posts: 1969
Joined: Nov 16, 2002
Last Visit: Jul 25, 2021
Location: Ohio, The land without sun

Post Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 8:44 pm 
 

Ralf Toth wrote:
burntwire wrote:This is just a Tourney copy. It isn't a Pre-Pub. He is just being a little misleading using the term "Pre-Pub", although it was produced prior to the published version.


Wait a second, I get a little confused here. If this is not a pre-pub version, why do we call the R1, R2 and R3 "pre-publication"? Page Not Found

Weren't they used in these tournaments? Or were they just sold during the tournaments, but not actually used?


There are two different versions of R1-R3 & only one of R4.  The official pre-pubs R-1 thru R-3 and the RPGA published versions R1-R4.  These are described in detail at the link you provided.  The one being discussed here appears to be a copy of one of the "official" pre-pubs that was used in the "Muscacon" Tourney.  Bottom line, without a number and a signature it's not one of the official pre-pubs that are described at the Acaeum and not worth much more than any other Tourney copy.  Of course we will see...  Unless the seller can verify the authenticity it's just a copy that anyone could make.  This whole topic does call into question the high values associated with items like the pre-pubs which can be forged fairly easily.  That's why provenance, or traceable history, is so important.  It's the only way to assure the authenticity of an item such as this.

  

User avatar

Site Admin

Posts: 2104
Joined: Oct 19, 2002
Last Visit: Jul 25, 2021
Location: Honolulu, HI

Post Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:39 am 
 

For what it's worth -- and I haven't been contacted by the seller, or anyone else, to attempt to verify the module, so I'm only going off the information on the auction page -- this is a tough call.

The biggest points for this being a genuine article are:

A) Seller has a very good, extensive feedback rating.  He could be deciding to "cash out" on one big scam here, but not very likely.

B) The module is not an identical photocopy of a pre-pub.  Anyone who was going to create a fake, or even just photocopy a genuine module, would at least get the cover page correct.

Without knowing more about it, or seeing some detailed scans, my feeling is that the module is exactly what the seller says it is.  It was given to him from a source at the RPGA, to be run as a tournament adventure at "Muscacon".  It is a pre-publication version of the pre-publication.

Now, the issue of how much it's worth is a completely different story.  It is probably a generic photocopy, and obviously has neither an original signature nor a serial number (the two things which make the pre-pub R modules collectible, and verifiable).  It would be, in fact, identical to R7-10 Dwarven Quest, which is just a photocopy.  How much would you pay for R7-10?  Or even better, how much would you pay for a genuine original D&D manuscript, which itself was just a photocopy?

A very difficult question.  If you could prove the photocopy was made in 1974... but then, we start to degenerate into silliness.

Bottom line: caveat emptor.  Buyer beware.  I believe this item is a genuine article, but it's value to the collecting community is highly subjective.  As a interesting piece of trivia, certainly, but as a centerpiece of your collection -- not so sure.

And you can be damn certain that the second module like this to surface will be met with a healthy dose of skepticism that it was run off last week at Kinko's.  :(

Foul

P.S.  Frank Mentzer would be a good source to contact about the existence of this, btw.

  


Prolific Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 905
Joined: Apr 09, 2003
Last Visit: Nov 09, 2015
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

Post Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 5:05 am 
 

So, R1-R3 in  their "pre-publication" form are basically tournament modules, right or wrong? In contrast to other tournament modules, they were signed by Mentzer and they were released as official RPGA modules later. Is that correct?

I'm just trying to grasp the full meaning of "pre-publication". Here is how I understand it: It is a version of the module which was later released officially. It was released in a number greater than one (else it would be the manuscript). It seems, the "pre-pubs" shown at the Acaeum are all numbered and signed. Is this a criteria for "pre-pub"?

In essence, I'd like to know, what is the big difference between the "pre-publication" versions of R1-R3 and any other official tournament (e.g. GenCon) module that explains their extremely high value? Is it only because R1-R3 were later released officially? Is it because of Mentzers autograph? Is it because they were sold at the convention through the hands of TSR employees? Or are all tournament copies worth around $800? (If so, some people have made fine bargains on eBay over the last years ...)


- "When the going gets weird, the Weird turn pro."

Hunter S. Thompson (July 18, 1937 - Feb 20, 2005)



  

User avatar

Verbose Collector
Acaeum Donor
Valuation Board

Posts: 1148
Joined: Nov 07, 2003
Last Visit: Jul 23, 2021
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Post Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:16 am 
 

AD&D R1 To The Aid Of Falx RPGA OOP! RARE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 09504&rd=1
7 days with no reserve.  Current bid is $9.99.



 WWW  

User avatar

Verbose Collector
Acaeum Donor
Valuation Board

Posts: 1148
Joined: Nov 07, 2003
Last Visit: Jul 23, 2021
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Post Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:22 am 
 

TSR 8004 Old Style D&D Dragon Dice Percentile Generator
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 43357&rd=1
7 days with no reserve.  Opening bid is $4.00.  In original package.

TSR 8005 Old D&D Dragon Dice Polyhedral Number Generato
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 43212&rd=1
7 days with no reserve.  Opening bid is $4.00.  In original package.



 WWW  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 5634
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Last Visit: Jul 20, 2021
Location: New Hampsha

Post Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:40 am 
 

Good assessment, Scott, except for one thing. This is a POST-pre-pub. Since it mentions being used at the other Cons, it had to have come out AFTER the Cons.


If you hit a Rowsdower, you get to keep it.

 WWW  

User avatar

Verbose Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 1224
Joined: Mar 08, 2003
Last Visit: Jul 25, 2021
Location: Close to GenCon

Post Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:35 pm 
 

Here is what my Pre-Pub states on the cover:
-Final Round of the AD&D Open Tournament at GEN CON South Game Convention Jacksonville, Florida Febuary, 1982
-Final Round of the AD&D Tournament at GEN CON East Game Convention Cherry Hill, New Jersey July, 1981

Does anyone have any info on the Muscacon. What month etc.? I would assume that the copy he has was printed after the Gen Con South and before Gen Con East. Maybe when they printed off copies for Gen Con East they had plenty of extras which they then sent to other Cons to be played.

I think it is real. However, the value is up in the air. I have bought several tourneys and have never paid very much. My personal opinion is that if someone paid what the Acaeum states as the value for an R tourney they over paid by quite a bit. Also I have the tourney for I-10 and if this goes for a huge amount of cash I may contact the buyer and offer it to him. After all it is a Pre-Pub. :lol:

  

User avatar

Verbose Collector
Acaeum Donor
Valuation Board

Posts: 1148
Joined: Nov 07, 2003
Last Visit: Jul 23, 2021
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Post Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:01 pm 
 

FoulFoot wrote:For what it's worth -- and I haven't been contacted by the seller, or anyone else, to attempt to verify the module, so I'm only going off the information on the auction page -- this is a tough call.

The biggest points for this being a genuine article are:

A) Seller has a very good, extensive feedback rating.  He could be deciding to "cash out" on one big scam here, but not very likely.

B) The module is not an identical photocopy of a pre-pub.  Anyone who was going to create a fake, or even just photocopy a genuine module, would at least get the cover page correct.

Without knowing more about it, or seeing some detailed scans, my feeling is that the module is exactly what the seller says it is.  It was given to him from a source at the RPGA, to be run as a tournament adventure at "Muscacon".  It is a pre-publication version of the pre-publication.

Now, the issue of how much it's worth is a completely different story.  It is probably a generic photocopy, and obviously has neither an original signature nor a serial number (the two things which make the pre-pub R modules collectible, and verifiable).  It would be, in fact, identical to R7-10 Dwarven Quest, which is just a photocopy.  How much would you pay for R7-10?  Or even better, how much would you pay for a genuine original D&D manuscript, which itself was just a photocopy?

A very difficult question.  If you could prove the photocopy was made in 1974... but then, we start to degenerate into silliness.

Bottom line: caveat emptor.  Buyer beware.  I believe this item is a genuine article, but it's value to the collecting community is highly subjective.  As a interesting piece of trivia, certainly, but as a centerpiece of your collection -- not so sure.

And you can be damn certain that the second module like this to surface will be met with a healthy dose of skepticism that it was run off last week at Kinko's.  :(

Foul

P.S.  Frank Mentzer would be a good source to contact about the existence of this, btw.


Contacted Frank Mentzer and this is his reply:

Kewl. Looks exactly like what it's purported to be.

These 1st runs of Falx were actually done on typewriters, TSR being in the process of upgrading the old Burroughs computer (used for payroll only) and still requiring all writers to use the communal typewriter room (reservations recommended).

That's indeed my handwriting & hand-drawn maps, albeit photocopied. And I did autograph and number every early copy. Most were returned to TSR and destroyed.

This is about as rare as it gets... moreso than Vampire Queen.

Frank



 WWW  
PreviousNext
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies. Page 28 of 96123 ... 25, 26, 27, 28, 29 ... 949596