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Post Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 6:10 pm 
 

yikes!

  

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Post Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 7:19 pm 
 

8)

  

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Post Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 8:35 pm 
 

Thank you for the pointer, Ralphie. I've canceled the bids, and contacted the bidders to explain. I thought it might be interesting to see a private auction, but in light of certain anal-retentive fools, it is not a good idea. Then again, I prefer that said anal-retentive fools avoid bidding on my auctions, and I have even thought about blocking certain bidders. Unlike the abovementioned fools, I don't particularly care about profiting from these. Like my C1/2, I'd rather they go to a collector who can appreciate them. Although he DID try to sell the C1.
So, don't bid lists show up after the auction? Any attempt at shill bidding would be evident, obviously.


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 10:16 pm 
 

Well, it appears you cannot change the option to have a private auction.


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 12:32 am 
 

Come on, Frank, how do you think people are going to act when they see you having a private auction? A private auction is like any other auction except you cannot see who else is bidding...no big mysteries to explore there. I am sure that even you can see that in light of the events of the past few months that any private auction you have will set off alarm bells among collectors that frequent this forum.

Is it anal-retentive for people to openly discuss and debate what you have done? No, absolutely not. You are a confirmed shill operator that may or may not have gone legit. Only time and proof of conduct can change that. One day, when I was in college, I went to one of those newspaper vending machines and another student was already buying one. As he held the machine's door open, he asked me if I wanted one [for free]. I told him "No, I would rather just pay for it." Rather than just tucking tail he looked at me, nodded, and said "Ah, PC [politically correct..as opposed to player character]." I just about exploded, "Is the desire not to steal politacally correct?! Some poor guy, who fills those machines and is trying to put a roof over his head, maybe just trying to feed his family, has to cover any shortaged from that machine. That's right, he makes up the shortages, not some big, faceless company!" Some people are too cheap and lacking in moral character to just put 50 cents in and take one paper. That is real sad!  

At what point can you be bought? 50 cents? 100 dollars, a million dollars? Frank, I would never bid on any of your auctions...even if that first print Chainmail had a $5 "buy it now" I would not buy it. I am not for sale at any price. You will never see a penny of my money under any circumstances.

Remember, Frank, that is coming from the only person in this forum that came to your defense in this thread. I did it because proper evidence must be presented for someone to be accused, nevermind found guilty. That is regardless of past wrongdoing.

-PD

  

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Post Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 1:17 am 
 

I will agree, you have come to my defense. Although, most other people have ignored the topics completely.
When it comes down to it, I really don't care whether you or anyone else bids or not. I'll be more than happy to sell it to another collector. Both are super rare items. Don't even care if they sell. If they do, I get a new pinball machine. If not, I keep them in my collection. Win/win.
I never denied shill bidding in the past, and I said before I was shown that it is improper. I haven't done it since. Why do I need to shill bid with a reserve? Ask yourself that. The reserve is very reasonable, and I am sure they will go for what they are worth. I'm probably going to pull the two auctions, however. The more I think about it, the more I am realizing I do not want these or any of the other rares I'll be posting to end up in obsessionists' hands. I had offered the wood to a VERY decent forum member, and I hadn't heard back so it got posted. We're still talking, and I'm fairly sure we'll come to an agreeable price.
Now as far as your newspaper story, it doesn't relate. The stated price of the paper is 50 cents. No one bids on the paper, and the highest bidder is awarded the Times. If you don't pay the 50 cents, it is stealing. When you bid on something, be prepared to pay what you bid. Have you ever been to a real estate auction? You're probably not even aware that banks seed the crowd with shill bidders. And they will flat-out refuse to sell below a certain price. Is that illegal? No. Immoral perhaps.
My selling auctions have been impeccable. I ship promptly, and I charge exact shipping, unlike Burnie who sent me 4th Dimension for less than he charged. If you ask some of my bidders, you will find I have refunded shipping when I have estimated over.
Did you see my shill bid for my Aussie auction? Oh, I must have forgotten to place it. My mistake, I should have lived up to my reputation, eh?
Sooooooooo, no more defending myself against a few idiots who can't seem to avoid kicking a dead horse. I'll relegate myself to posting in the Classifieds, and you won't have to worry about the "Shady Criminal". Ralph, Burnout, please do not bid on any of my auctions. I do not want any of my items going to (gollum) either of you.


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 2:33 am 
 

I'll relegate myself to posting in the Classifieds, and you won't have to worry about the "Shady Criminal".


Hear ye!


- "When the going gets weird, the Weird turn pro."

Hunter S. Thompson (July 18, 1937 - Feb 20, 2005)



  


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 1:21 pm 
 

Frank, I was not using the newspaper anecdote as a comparison to shill bidding. I was using it as an example of how people's moral beliefs can become twisted and corrupt...and at what level a person's morals come into play. Some would say shill bidding on a $5 item is no big deal, but if it were a $1000 item then it is a horrible action that deserves nothing less than a public flogging. I am saying, and using my newspaper anecdote as an example, that morals are an absolute. That any immoral/unethical actions we try to justify as being too small to be important, regardless as to their magnitude, is wrong...just like stealing.

The reason I brought that up is I believe Adam once said [and I paraphrase] that we will convict and damn Frank for what he has done...but what happens when he has a really rare item that we want? Well, now there is a test as to what people will do. Here we have two extremely rare D&D items up for auction. Some who have condemned you will now have to show their true colors and either ignore your auction or bid and show they are nothing more than bags of hot air and moralists out of convenience (just another voice in the mob that screams to burn the witch). My answer is "I will do nothing and that I am not for sale at any price."

-PD

  


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 8:35 am 
 

I think this thread is fucked up.  

This is a prime example of what makes unmoderated boards suck.

I think exposing unethical buyers/dealer's usernames and ebay alter-identities and presenting the evidence is a good idea but this thread goes too far.

First of all the title of the thread uses someone's full name.  If this is in fact his real name then you should immediately edit it and remove it.  No matter how egregious his sins were to you, it doesn't give you the moral highground to expose his real identity and his anonymity.  It's low and makes you look just as bad as the "criminal" you aim to expose.

Secondly you call him a criminal, which is blatantly slanderous.  The guy admits to engaging in unethical business practices and cheating on ebay but does that really make him a criminal?  In your efforts to expose a crooked dealer you stoop below his level and smear him to make your point.  State you won't do business with such a dealer and move on.  Your hyperbole and slander only inspires sympathy for the accused.

It seems to me that many of you hate this guy and agree that he is beyond redemption.  That may be true but look at yourselves.  This is a lynching, maybe justifyable one but come on!  You come across like scorned lovers or something.  It would be laughable if it weren't so mean spirited.  

Not everything on this thread was out of line and some of the arguments are perfectly acceptible.  I think the "criminal" has actually shown more class than some of the "victims" in many cases during this discussion.

I don't know why I bothered to post this.  I'm really not the sanctimonious fucktard I come across as here.  I guess it's because this is a young/ relatively small and new board with lots of potential.  I like a lot of things going on this board and it bugs me when I see it going in this direction.

One of the best things we can do in an unmoderated board is to encourage those who mean well to do the right thing and to encourage those who don't to change.  Public lynchings and bickering in every thread about the same tired fued gets old and gives this board a nasty feel.  This is D&D collecting for christ sakes!  Let's have some fun with it and put the personal shit aside.  

Perhaps the web admins. should put a sticky thread reserved for bickering or for exposing unethical dealers users ID's and evidence, so the rest of  the board can stay on topic.   Something similar to the copyright infringement thread.

  


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 8:53 am 
 

Right on.

Gotta love the internet - never has so much time been wasted on such useless discussion.

How about the guys who are arguing send each other a private message with their phone number and talk on the phone. I've usually found in the past that hours worth of flaming email can be resolved in a 5 minute phone conversation.

Remember, in communicating with people f2f, only about 15% of the communication is in the actual words. The rest is in the tone of voice, body language, etc. So email causes all sorts of misunderstandings.

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Post Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 8:57 am 
 

myalbinogorilla wrote:First of all the title of the thread uses someone's full name.  If this is in fact his real name then you should immediately edit it and remove it.  No matter how egregious his sins were to you, it doesn't give you the moral highground to expose his real identity and his anonymity.  It's low and makes you look just as bad as the "criminal" you aim to expose.

Why not?  This isn't a 12-step program; it is more-or-less business.  If there is a shady operator and people don't expose them, they are contributing to fraud.  That said, I take no position on the issues discussed here, as I haven't had first-hand dealing w/ any of the parties.

Paul


"It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.  It is by the juice of Saphoo that thoughts aquire speed; the lips aquire stains; the stains become a warning.  It is by will alone I set my mind in motion."

  


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 9:24 am 
 

Why not?

It's mean spirited that's why.

The Golden Rule.

Do onto others.....


I would be severely pissed if my personal information was shared over the internet regardless of how little was shared.  They only said his name but where does it end?  If you get accused of shill bidding should someone be able to post your phone number?  Your home address?  Your bank account number?  I've seen these things get out of control and believe me it's better to nip it in the bud and try to make people see how it is never constructive to engage in these kind of attacks.  It may make the attacker feel like they are getting some measure of revenge but that's it.

  

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Post Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 9:39 am 
 

Enough about Deadlord. We all know the scoop. I have edited out my posts and hope that we can just get rid of this thread. :)

  


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 1:55 pm 
 

myalbinogorilla wrote:I think the "criminal" has actually shown more class than some of the "victims" in many cases during this discussion.


You actually have the guts to write that Farris has more class than any single member of this forum? I shall say that is more of a debasement for me than any of Farris' posts have ever been.

If you cannot understand that, go and browse through his display of vulgarities and cheap insults.


- "When the going gets weird, the Weird turn pro."

Hunter S. Thompson (July 18, 1937 - Feb 20, 2005)



  


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 12:30 pm 
 

I didn't say he has more class than any of you in general just during this discussion.   I simply find the use of his full name, calling him a criminal and ganging up on him somewhat distasteful.  I don't think I defended him in the least, in fact I carefully avoided defending him because I can see by the evidence presented that he has probably been unethical in his ebay activities.  

I'm sure all of you guys have your reasons for being angry but your anger at him makes you blind to how you come across to others.  I just think that if we all set limits to our attacks and accusations the forum will be a better place for all.  

If I have debased you by asking for some restraint and class then I apologize.  That was not my intent.  I support your right to expose "shady" resellers to the forum and the presenting of evidence for everybody to judge for themselves.  Most of us are smart enough to see through BS explanations for the evidence presented.  

Personally, I am less inclined to do business with all of you, seeing how vicious and prickly you can be when you get your dander up.  I had hoped to offer constructive criticism to a membership that I thought could use some.  If I missed the mark then at least I can say I tried.

  


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Post Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 1:28 am 
 

you can note that the Canadian auction attempted to charge $25 shipping


I am putting in an update to close out this thread. I e-mailed both of the ebay sellers that Deadlord claimed tried to charge high shipping fees (to give them a chance to defend themselves). Today I heard back from the
"you can note that the Canadian auction attempted to charge $25 shipping" person[Silverleaf] and was also given a copy of the invoice.

What Deadlord neglects to mention is that the entire auction with shipping was $25.50...which breaks down to the $22.50 he bid on the auction and $3.00 for shipping.

I have yet to hear back from the other seller because the ebay mail forwarding system says that he is away until the 28th of November. However, in light of what Silverleaf has stated, I can draw no other conclusion that Deadlord bid on the DM Screen auction with no intention of ever paying for the item.

-PD

P.S. As a side note, Silverleaf also told me that the Magadunar account has a recorded owner's name of "John Holmes" and an address in Texas

  


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:19 am 
 

Hi folks,

I have been unable to put my reply on here because I have been on vacation and have only today seen an email informing me of the debate going on regarding my ebay auction for the AD&D First Quest The Music LP ebay item nimber 3150346236

I am the UK seller referred to by Magadunar and can only say that I am amazed that he should give false info in this way. My postage charges are very clear and on this particular auction I also made clear that the charge would be double because it was a double LP. My total postage charge to the US as quoted on my ebay invoice to Magadunar was £6.00. at an exchange of 1.55 this comes nowhere near the $32 being quoted. I have an excellent reputation on ebay and do not attempt to fleece people in the way being suggested.

I received a warning from another ebayer about this person and asked him how he intended paying and also gave a shorter time limit of 7 days for him to do so. He said he would pay via Paypal. To date no payment has been made and no communication recieved from him after the auction.

Anyone can email any of my ebay buyers and they will tell you that what I state as p&p and exchange rate I keep to. Check out my ebay feedback at petewatkin.

Anybody want any further clarification or facts please email me at [email protected].

Let's get the facts straight and stop all the false info.

I emailed the other auction bidders to inform them that magadunar was probably a non payer and that the best way I could think of resolving the situation and getting a proper price was to put the item back up for auction at the original starting price. The exchange rate for the US dollar has changed quite dramatically since I've been away but I will keep it at 1.55 for this acution. The LP will be back on auction this week if you want details email me and I will let you know the ebay ref number.

Pete

  
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