I finally read that whole post ... I stopped the first time at "exact same packaging" because I threw up in my mouth.

So, seriously, what the f**k does this mean, PPP?

"Due to a technical difficulty beyond our control, PPP MUST receive replacement requests containing the products to be replaced BY April 25th. Any product arriving after this date will be refused, regardless of the post mark date."

Technical difficulty? Really? Of what nature? And don't you think your customers — remember them? the same people who funded this little vanity project and, in some cases, are still waiting to receive an actual product — deserve a more complete explanation?

Man, if I was a more cynical person, I might almost believe that "technical difficulty" really means "we picked April 25 as the date we're not going to deal with these pesky complaints any more."

g026r wrote:"We're sending the order to the printer's on the 26th."

So you've got just over seven months to return it, what are you guys complaining about?

Ok, sorry.  I just can't resist an attempt at humor.  I'll shaddup now.  *waves from the beach*

I'm glad I was too damn poor to get involved with this fiasco.  Taking care of the customers is positive to the bottom line.  Sending an item that cost $150 out in a flimsy packaging shows no attention to the customer.  PPP is getting what it deserves.  I will never buy from again.  

Had my own problem with Cairn of the Skeleton King.  It them over 3 months to ship.  And that came only after Alan got involved.

Martin

Busman wrote:(Hi X!)

Yo!  

Please put suggestions at the top of your posts.

I do not represent PPP except in so far as I'm pushing solutions as best as I can to resolve this particular issue given the circumstances and with resources I have at my personal disposal.

Last night's post should have included the idea of adding cardboard to the packages. I was trying to be specific and unthinkingly left that previously noted idea out. I'll make sure to do that.

The process I outlined is the quickest solution I can come up with given the circumstances. I will track who pays for their send-in postage and see if I can work toward some form of compensation for that. But right now I can't personally pay for that as someone just helping out.

Anyone who went to Gary's funeral can clearly attest to Rob's obvious appearance, and some have done so elsewhere. I have suggested he move to a different climate. Call his first visit there a vacation, but it's technically productive. Hopefully he does move.

I'm certain if the future, any PPP product will be handled in a different manner.

In the meantime, I'm only able to do what I can to get things moving in the right direction.

Thanks for your patience and grace enduring these inconveniences. I greatly appreciate your positions, but can't address all of them myself. Though, with my help, I believe all of them will be addressed eventually, however confusing all the pieces seem to me right now.

improvstone wrote:Thanks for the update Eric.

What is the likely turn around time on this? Given that the LE BC was meant to be a limited print run are you expecting to have to print more of the maps? Or was the print run larger, as I would expect, than 53?

As of the first of the month I will be looking for returns and seeing them off every 7-10 days up until the end of April, minus my birthday on the 25th. I'm getting to be an old flocker.

As anyone would expect, you are right, the print run was larger, but only 53 were sold, so I'm pretty sure there are enough parts to replace a pool of damaged maps and modules.

While I understand that covering the damages is important, I'm trying to arrange it in a way that it gets down NOW. As well, it occurred to me that the condition of products makes their value go up or down, and in all honesty, that's dependent upon how collectors, themselves, handle product or arrange for its safekeeping. Thus, the most likely and immediate damage product naturally receives in the first days of its handling, before it is put away in storage, could well be partially erased by our packaging screw up. I know that sounds lame, but it really is a thing trying to make sure that this doesn't affect the valuation of perfectly received copies.

If someone scratched their product when laying it on the coffee table or rendered a corner crunched when dodging their dog, this would be natural wear and tear in comparison to other collectors.

Also I don't have immediately available funds to personally offer folks to get the items turned in and as noted above, I didn't want to trade out all modules that have a little natural wear that occurred by after the mailing handling inside the collector's abode. Thus, I balanced these concerns by asking that the send-in price of postage would help people judge whether the damage was important to them. Perhaps I'm being silly, but as well, it is important to preserve the number of circulating serialized copies, and this trade in method solves that as well.

I believe, or hope, that I have previously stated that PPP will be moved by me to additionally compensate for this send-in postage and packaging, but I just can't personally guarantee that. I think that what's now happening, in part, is that due to my attempts to better the situation I'm merely exacerbating it to some degree.

I do know that through allying forces PPP and ROB are being helped and aided as is necessary and that in the end much of this will be solved. In other words, this isn't a degrading situation, but instead a mounting solution. Just not as expedient as possible due to withstanding other issues as have been somewhat mentioned.

That all said, I have mentioned the following on the PPP board. I will be posting over there in order to try and still fix problems, but as well, to decrease the amount that I'm stirring things up over here. I think that's fair, given my diminished time I have to spend on this in the next 2 weeks.

Again, PPP is not my employer and I am not being compensated in any way. Thus, while I'm addressing things on this issue and lending information as I know it, I am NOT representative of the extent to which PPP will further act.

Thanks!

enshook wrote:While I understand that covering the damages is important, I'm trying to arrange it in a way that it gets down NOW. As well, it occurred to me that the condition of products makes their value go up or down, and in all honesty, that's dependent upon how collectors, themselves, handle product or arrange for its safekeeping. Thus, the most likely and immediate damage product naturally receives in the first days of its handling, before it is put away in storage, could well be partially erased by our packaging screw up. I know that sounds lame, but it really is a thing trying to make sure that this doesn't affect the valuation of perfectly received copies.

If someone scratched their product when laying it on the coffee table or rendered a corner crunched when dodging their dog, this would be natural wear and tear in comparison to other collectors.

Are you freaking kidding here?

Bottle City shipped out with no card board inserts, no DO NOT BEND stamped or written on the mailer, in a flimsy USPS mailer, for less postage than was paid for, and you're blaming the customer for the fact that goods were received damaged?  

I mean, RJK is reduced to insinuating that the customers damaged their own goods upon receipt, rather than take responsibility for craptastic packaging on the shipper's end of things? Scratched when the module was set down on the coffee table? Corners crunched while dodging the dog? I mean, what? How freaking stupid can the excuses and dodging possibly get?  

Rather than an acknowledgement that PPP screwed the pooch with its cheap mailer, it boils down to, "Well, maybe you guys damaged your product when you were dodging your dog."  

I thought the debacle of waiting 6 months for the product with little communication from Kuntz and unmet promise after promise was bad, but this situation has gone completely off the rails.

We're deep into Spock with a Beard territory here.

enshook wrote:Please put suggestions at the top of your posts.

I think its speaks well for your willingness to help that you posted a couple of thoughtful, well-reasoned posts above when you could have easily fired back and fanned the flames. That is much to your credit ... however ...

Aneoth wrote:Suggestions have been made here at length. Over several months time.

... this is also quite true.

This thread has gotten emotional at times and come close at least once to veering off the rails, but it's also got quite a few good suggestions included in its 30-whatever pages. If PPP is serious about having a future (which I'm not sure is even realistic, but I'll let that go for now), I'd strongly suggest sifting through some of the noise to get to the signal.

Here's some of the better ideas I've seen:

1. Immediately remove RJK from any supervisory, management, or coordinator role ... basically anything where an actual responsible and mature adult is needed. His new role is to be creative only.

2. Give RJK firm, non-optional deadlines. When those deadlines are inevitably missed, have other writers lined up to immediately begin finishing the project. Pay those writers.

3. Abandon, now and forever, the insulting pre-payment business plan. PPP has lost the right to hold onto people's money for a year.

4. Pay the editors and graphic artists who are owed money from prior projects. (It's just shameful that such a thing even needs to be said, BTW).

5. Stop enabling the worst of RJK's behavior. Everyone has issues in their lives, and his endless litany of excuses and drama wears very thin to those of us who also have things to deal with. Put simply, RJK needs to be told to get over himself. He also needs to be informed it's not 1978 any longer — very, very, very few people are actually impressed that he's still clinging to the same D&D character 30 years later.

6. Stop treating your customers — actually, "investors" or "supporters" would probably be more accurate — like inconveniences. For instance, the handling of the postal debacle so far has just been completely insulting. The post office has been blamed. The customers have been blamed. The offered solution — "up yours, Mr. Customer, we're just going to send it out the same way" is the equivalent of two raised middle fingers. Seriously, as if Bottle City needed another PR disaster ...

7. COMMUNICATE!! And, no, "communicate" does not mean "have Grodog put out a bunch of fires over at The Acaeum." (although we do appreciate the updates, Allan). It means using your website as something other than a space for wayward electrons ... it means RJK parking his ass in front of a computer every so often and writing some emails ... it means what it means: communicate!

And if, by now, RJK doesn't realize that he needs to be doing this himself ... that there's a slew of disgruntled supporters out there who are sick of getting their news third-hand from independent forums ... well, then he's honestly, truly, and utterly hopeless.

And I'll add one more that's sort of been bugging me lately:

8. For the next project, just skip any Runic, Limited, Special, Diamond-Plated, Titanium, or whatever nonsense. Just release one product that costs the same for everyone. Frankly, I don't think PPP has proven it can handle special print runs: all I have to do is read back through some threads here to find people wondering why their various "special" orders are so screwed up.

+++++

Well, that's it: my version of a "greatest hits" of ideas I've seen posted on this thread. I'm sure there's some other good ones, along with stuff that's not as important to me but perhaps very important to others.

Frankly, I don't see how PPP can possibly continue as a viable entity without addressing at least #'s 1, 2, 5, 6, and 7, but that will be up to Rob and anyone who chooses to work with him. Honestly, I'm not optimistic; I think a few bridges too many have been burned. It's a very niche thing that RJK and PPP are trying to do, and niches don't have unlimited bridges.

But maybe y'all will prove me wrong. I'd be okay with that; I like it better when everyone — creators and fans — is happy.

Aneoth wrote:I just got four new modules from XRP ...

ooooohYeahh baby!   (in Macho Man Randy Savage voice)

I think you will enjoy them and your small purchase is helping to grow a market for new old school material.

If you or anyone else is interested, you can download a free a copy of Labyrinth Lord at:

http://www.goblinoidgames.com/labyrinthlord.htm

Looks really good with a lot of quality art pieces throughout, which is something OSRIC SRD (System Reference Doc) is lacking.  LL is similar in how it works to OSRIC.  Whereas OSRIC is emulating AD&D, LL seems to be a restatement of OD&D + Moldvay which people on this board should find cool.  Or maybe it is just a restatement of Modvay since those rules where a retelling of OD&D  Hmmm?

Anyways point is it is OD&D/D&D given a bit of a face lift in both rules and appearance.  Like XRP it will cost you a pittance to help support them if you so choose, and you do get value in return.  Ummm ...what did you spend on BC LE again?  Check it out.  

Cheers!