RJK's Bottle City updates
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Post Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:05 pm 
 

Busman wrote:

I don't know RJK, never met him, never purchased anything of his, and I don't support his business practices in any way; so your tantrum is misdirected. Maybe you should try reading my entire post, let alone thread before you continue.

BUT, if you have a beef with the shipping, it was clearly Mr. Snook who did the packaging and sent them off. He is not RJK, he has responded to this thread and posted multiple places about this debacle and how he was personally going to RJK's house and getting the shipping done, etc.

But, please continue to stew in your anger and childish attitude. You are conducting yourself as if you were a boy with no control on his emotional faculties at all. Adults handle the situation and move forward. Get a grip. Seriously, look at how you are handling yourself. It's like this is the first investment you've ever made and had go belly up. Collecting is not a guarantee. You make bets, sometimes they work out, sometimes they don't.

Are you seriously going to let $150 ruin your blood pressure for 6 months?


Few of us are losing sleep over this, but the fact remains that many are very angry indeed about the treatment received. Because of this what I said previously and X's comments regarding final salvoes (He said what I thought only better!) are to be expected.

It seems that PPP/RJK are moving forward - announcements on the way. If the buying/collecting public was not painfully aware of the past issues then this could be the same debacle all over again - though I personally think that RJK is going to find shipping a lot easier the next time - lets face it, the way this one went he'll just send the whole lot to Noble Knight and collectors will buy from them as and when they are in stock. (Unless PPP are having another prepay system :roll:  :roll:  :roll:  :roll: )


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:43 pm 
 

Busman wrote:Are you seriously going to let $150 ruin your blood pressure for 6 months?

Hey, genius, here's a newsflash for you: I invested exactly $0 in this debacle. I don't give out interest-free loans as a general principle, and I was especially turned off by PPP's tiered pricing scam with their two most recent modules, so there wasn't a chance in hell I was supporting this project.

And, wow, speaking of tantrums ... nice rant there, Mr. Calm And Collected. You know, you seem really, really bothered by this thread, so I'll throw out some free advice: stop reading it. Nine days ago, in fact, this thread had become so unbearable to you that you mounted your soap box to proclaim:

Busman wrote:This thread should be locked, if at all possible. It's clearly gone beyond anything constructive.

So, given that this thread was useless to you nine days ago, why are you still hanging around?

I think I know the answer, actually: you get off on telling people how they should act ... and you're having a great time now spewing your holier-than-thou "step up and do something about it" bullshit. But guess what, Mr. Busman? You don't get to tell anyone here how they should act, or what the accepted response is when one is left hanging, with zero communication, by an alleged gaming "legend" who has, for all intents and purposes, spent roughly a year pissing in the face of the very same people who supported his vanity project in the first place.

Those who were pissed upon have every right to come here and vent until they run out of things to say. Again, if that is somehow too much for your delicate sensibilities, find another thread to read. We have plenty.

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:55 pm 
 

OK, Xaxaxe, stop hiding your feelings and tell us how you really feel.   :D

  

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:08 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:So, given that this thread was useless to you nine days ago, why are you still hanging around?

I think I know the answer, actually: you get off on telling people how they should act ... and you're having a great time now spewing your holier-than-thou "step up and do something about it" bullshit. But guess what, Mr. Busman? You don't get to tell anyone here how they should act, or what the accepted response is when one is left hanging, with zero communication, by an alleged gaming "legend" who has, for all intents and purposes, spent roughly a year pissing in the face of the very same people who supported his vanity project in the first place.

Those who were pissed upon have every right to come here and vent until they run out of things to say. Again, if that is somehow too much for your delicate sensibilities, find another thread to read. We have plenty.


But, you do get to tell people what the acceptable reaction is?

I'm plenty calm. I also invested $0 in this. I'm disgusted by PPPs policies and how this whole thing played out, and I've learned that I won't be purchasing anything to support PPP going forward as they've earned the right to no further purchases.

But, I stand by my post 9 days ago (glad you finally were able to take your own advise and go back and read the thread). This thread has gone beyond anything useful.

I am a completely uninvolved 3rd party looking at this from a completely outside perspective. I don't know anyone on this board personally, nor anyone at PPP or TSR, etc. From my perspective the bitching on this thread is reaching mob mentality and is basically worthless. It's gone well beyond warning anyone off from PPP and describing the problems to useless piling on anything.

In fact, If I were running a business and sold you guys something, I think you've guys have reached that point were I wouldn't bother trying to salve your wounds, as clearly there is nothing that will appease.

What's the saying, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar?

And since we both invested the same amount of money in this venture, I suspect we both have just as much value posting here.

  


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:08 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:So, given that this thread was useless to you nine days ago, why are you still hanging around?

I think I know the answer, actually: you get off on telling people how they should act ... and you're having a great time now spewing your holier-than-thou "step up and do something about it" bullshit. But guess what, Mr. Busman? You don't get to tell anyone here how they should act, or what the accepted response is when one is left hanging, with zero communication, by an alleged gaming "legend" who has, for all intents and purposes, spent roughly a year pissing in the face of the very same people who supported his vanity project in the first place.

Those who were pissed upon have every right to come here and vent until they run out of things to say. Again, if that is somehow too much for your delicate sensibilities, find another thread to read. We have plenty.


Many of us HAVE found another thread (and bulletin board) to read. This place, it seems to me, has largely become a haven for a closed-minded group of puerile cretins who think that they have a corner on the market of good sense when it comes to collecting D&D items. There are those of us out here with serious collections who have tired of this ridiculous ranting, calling people "idiots" at the drop of a hat, etc. Maybe RJK hasn't acted in the best interest of his fans or the future marketability of his company's products...

But, have you paused to consider that the man might be going through some serious psychological, financial, and/or life-change issues that have prevented him from living up to your inflated expectations? Sure, maybe Kuntz isn't a "legend" exactly, but he sure as hell got a great deal of credit from EGG, someone whom we all admire and are still mourning the loss of. There are a few modules (S3 comes to mind) in which RJK is listed as a major inspiration by Gygax, even though his name doesn't appear in the credits at all. Whether you bought Bottle City or not (I did), Rob Kuntz deserves your forbearance, if not your respect. Would you be ranting like a spoiled child deprived of a third lollipop if it were Gary Gygax who failed to mail your precious module in a timely fashion... I think not.

  


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:10 pm 
 

JohnGaunt wrote:OK, Xaxaxe, stop hiding your feelings and tell us how you really feel.   :D

Actually, I'm going to take my own advice and start giving this thread a miss. Now that my fellow Acaeum members are at least receiving what they paid for, I don't have a lot more to add.

Thanks again, Allen and Jaybird and others who have tried their best to salvage something out of this train-wreck. It's too bad you guys got caught in the middle.


Last edited by Xaxaxe on Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:18 pm 
 

someone999 is a PATHETIC LOSER wrote:blah, blah, blah

Gee whiz, Mr. Busman, you're going to have to do better than that ... your newly-registered alter ego just managed to quote the exact same section of my earlier post that you did (including the unnecessary space above the first line). You need to cover your tracks at least a little bit.

Multiple accounts are generally frowned upon here ... but I'll let you discuss that with FoulFoot; I just PM'd him.

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:23 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:Gee whiz, Mr. Busman, you're going to have to do better than that ... your newly-registered alter ego just managed to quote the exact same section of my earlier post that you did. You need to cover your tracks at least a little bit.

Multiple accounts are generally frowned upon here ... but I'll let you discuss that with FoulFoot; I just PM'd him.


Wow, your paranoia knows no bounds. Have Foulfoot check the IPs. I have nothing to worry about. This is exactly the sort of piling on I was talking about. It is possible, as I'm living proof, to believe that PPP *AND* some members of this board are acting much less than humanely (please also note that I'm not saying that the actions are equally repulsive, just both are repulsive).

  


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:23 pm 
 

Can you hear the whining in your post? I sure can. And I am not "Busman", whoever that might be. Just someone who watches and gets sick of the crap I see shoveled by some people here. A small minority, mind you. A little more understanding and a little less griping might be in order for your general "reading public" who don't normally post.

  

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:24 pm 
 

someone999 wrote:
Many of us HAVE found another thread (and bulletin board) to read. This place, it seems to me, has largely become a haven for a closed-minded group of puerile cretins who think that they have a corner on the market of good sense when it comes to collecting D&D items. There are those of us out here with serious collections who have tired of this ridiculous ranting, calling people "idiots" at the drop of a hat, etc. Maybe RJK hasn't acted in the best interest of his fans or the future marketability of his company's products...


Agreed....Aaaaand you should have stopped right there.  

As far as I'm concerned at this point...it's finished. Pretty much everyone has gotten the product. Rob can attempt to patch together the trust he seems to have lost from his fan base.  The fans can move on from here and decide whether to support Rob or other third party publishers taking this into account. However, if someone who paid $150 for a LE or $20 fro a SE of Bottle City wants to rant awhile, what's the harm. That's the purpose of threads like this, blow off a little steam without anyone getting physically injured. Bygones.

But, have you paused to consider that the man might be going through some serious psychological, financial, and/or life-change issues that have prevented him from living up to your inflated expectations?


Considered...but in the end don't really care. The man is running a business...end of story.  I don't give most people who owe me product for money a pass for 9 months, sorry.... I wouldn't expect the same out of people I owed product for money, no matter what the circumstances.

It all boiled down to a matter of communication.  People will forgive you almost anything should you let them know you screwed up.  For Rob not to keep in touch with his contributors except through 3rd parties was a gaffe of legendary proportions.

Sure, maybe Kuntz isn't a "legend" exactly, but he sure as hell got a great deal of credit from EGG, someone whom we all admire and are still mourning the loss of. There are a few modules (S3 comes to mind) in which RJK is listed as a major inspiration by Gygax, even though his name doesn't appear in the credits at all.


This is pertinent.....how? Famous people don't screw up on ocassion?

Whether you bought Bottle City or not (I did), Rob Kuntz deserves your forbearance, if not your respect.


Forbearance was given for until it was noted Rob had all the product at his house....for three months....and couldn't get an item one shipped.

Would you be ranting like a spoiled child deprived of a third lollipop if it were Gary Gygax who failed to mail your precious module in a timely fashion... I think not.


Sure I would.  But then, I'm not a mealy mouthed ass kissing troll like yourself. Get the hell out of here.

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:27 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:
Sure I would.  But then, I'm not a mealy mouthed ass kissing troll like yourself. Get the hell out of here.

Mike B.


I'm not a troll, and I'm sorry I offended you. I'm outta here.

  

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:31 pm 
 

I don't give most people who owe me product for money a pass for 9 months, sorry.... I wouldn't expect the same out of people I owed product for money, no matter what the circumstances.


Since its got nothing to do with what anyone else is saying (seeing as I have no stake in this whole thing, though I am tempted to track down a normal printing of the module to see it), I just wanted to say, again, thanks for giving me about a month to pay off that item I bought from you through the eBay store a while ago. You likely don't even remember it, but I do.

That's how a business should be. Open communication, with honesty so each side, through the wonderful power of contractual agreement, know what is up. Its no good to not give information, as it just leads to fear, and well, ask Yoda for the rest.


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:32 pm 
 

someone999 wrote:Just someone who watches and gets sick of the crap I see shoveled by some people here ...

... and is a GUTLESS puke who signs up with the specific intent of doing some drive-by flaming. Everyone's a tough guy behind a keyboard, right, anonymous clown?

Hit the bricks, troll.


Last edited by Xaxaxe on Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:32 pm 
 

someone999 wrote:
I'm not a troll, and I'm sorry I offended you. I'm outta here.


Since that ugliness is over, anyone else with an LE have the map signed and numbered as well?

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:40 pm 
 

someone999 wrote:
I'm not a troll, and I'm sorry I offended you. I'm outta here.


Later.  Next time, before you come on these boards and call my friends "puerile cretins" do a little damn research.  Pick up this thread around Page Five and skim through.....if you can't see the frustration and anger building slowly to a fever pitch...slowly enough that SOMEONE could have put the fire out had they posted and reassured their customers....then I don't know what to tell you.  I think anyone who dropped 150 bones should have the right to blow off a little steam.  Hey, look, even I think it's getting redundant, which is why I haven't really been posting here lately. But then again I got my $20 item a couple months ago and all is well....I can't begin to put myself in the shoes of those who bought multiple LE copies and have been patiently waiting for nearly a year.

There were plenty of chances to get this right all along the way.  It's looking more and more as if the "right thing" was done more due to outside forces (Grodog, Enshook, Deogolf, etc) than the man himself.  

All I can say is that it's a helluva way to run a business.  I honestly hope Rob gets it together....and can salvage something from this mess, possibly by selling the company name and putting himself in a creative position rather an an administrative one....but enablers like yourself won't help a bit.

I hope this is my last post on this subject...although I reserve the right to take it up should another idiot get on here and insult my friends....

Mike B.

EDIT:  I was contacted off forum by the poster, and I think he was motivated by a true interest in what is going on with Rob vs just trolling the thread.  We both went a little far in our posts. Since everyone seems to have gotten their goodies, I'm going to bow out of this thread unless it's to comment on the item itself rather than the circus surrounding it.


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Last edited by Badmike on Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:14 am 
 

Bottle City is pretty cool though.  Can't wait to play it!!


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Post Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:44 am 
 

Mars wrote:Since that ugliness is over, anyone else with an LE have the map signed and numbered as well?


Yes, my LE maps are #10 and 47 IIRC.  I'll have to check to confirm though.


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Post Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:52 am 
 

You know, now that people are beginning to receive their goods, I find it is possible to still get a good laugh out of some of this ... for instance, I have this mental image of a second printing entitled: RJK's Bottle City: Bringing People Together Since 2007.

Xaxaxe wrote:Actually, I'm going to take my own advice and start giving this thread a miss.

Okay, starting ... now!  :)

No more falling for the troll(s) baiting ... I should know better. I'm just glad the item actually exists and that it is finally being delivered to the people who made the project possible in the first place.

So, bye-bye, year-long, 31-page soap opera! I'll miss you!

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Post Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:12 am 
 

Alright, is there anyone else here besides me that hasn't received Bottle City yet?  Now I'm feeling really left out...   :scratch:

  


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Post Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:18 am 
 

someone999 wrote:
I'm not a troll, and I'm sorry I offended you. I'm outta here.



blow it off. anyone who doesn't agree with one of these clowns is a troll. who cares.

  
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