Interesting Items Formerly on eBay
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Post Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:23 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Any have the notion that there's a lot of these things cropping up? Maybe someone with a photocopier and some friends is making a mint? Can anyone confirm these are genuine?


It may almost be time to start some basic ink and paper checks on originals to compare them. Selling a forgery of a valuable item is quite a serious offense. Rare booksellers take this very seriously.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:14 am 
 


** expired eBay auction **




Couple of gems there :)

  

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:50 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Any have the notion that there's a lot of these things cropping up?
Maybe someone with a photocopier and some friends is making a mint? Can anyone confirm these are genuine?

bombadil wrote:The map looks strange.

HermitFromPluto wrote:It may almost be time to start some basic ink and paper checks on originals to compare them.
Selling a forgery of a valuable item is quite a serious offense.
Rare booksellers take this very seriously.


Perhaps this one or some others recently listed are forgeries.
But if so, I would not know, since I have never had one in my hands.
But even if you are considering that this listing MIGHT be a Zerox Copy (Forgery) of the The Lost Caverns of Tsojconth;
it still begs the question:
how would someone go about creating a fake Original Poly Bag? :?:
Condition: Unused. All components in original condition. It is even in the original poly bag. Photos show actual item you are purchasing.


I suspect that the ONLY way to be sure is for someone who already has (owns) an undesputed original to compare this one and the other recent E-Bay listings to that undisputed original. But then who is to say that the undisputed original is not a forgery itself and the recent ones are in fact originals?


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:01 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Any have the notion that there's a lot of these things cropping up? Maybe someone with a photocopier and some friends is making a mint? Can anyone confirm these are genuine?


I've been saying for years it's only a matter of time. Some of the items (specialty printings, tournament modules, etc) practically lend themselves to unlawful duplication.

I can just say if it hasn't happened yet, I'd be very shocked.  Most of our contact with rare items doesn't allow for careful comparison.

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:06 am 
 

It has long been one of my base collecting choices to NOT seriously bid on these types of rare items for exactly this reason.
I am too worried about being scamed.

Older Modules with the thick covers, Boxed Sets and older bound or Stapled books with heavy stock paper covers are much harder to forge than is a paper module with few or no colors.

Of course the paper itself in the older original paper modules must be a HUGE clue, since the paper used 30 years ago is nothing like that used now.
And, as has been stated above, the Ink as well.


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:58 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:Some of the items (specialty printings, tournament modules, etc) practically lend themselves to unlawful duplication.

I'll repeat something I said during the absurd Realm of No development: homebrews with questionable (or false) provenance and photocopies are going to be a real issue within our little niche in the next few years.

Honestly, I wouldn't ever bid or buy on either category unless the seller was from the Acaeum or I was able to actually inspect the item in person. Bidding from a stranger on eBay? Never.

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:07 pm 
 

I don't know...with that bastard named ***** bidding, who knows how crazy things could get.'

If this seller is photocopying original Tsojcanth modules, I wish he would send one to me.   :wink:


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:10 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:
I've been saying for years it's only a matter of time. Some of the items (specialty printings, tournament modules, etc) practically lend themselves to unlawful duplication.

I can just say if it hasn't happened yet, I'd be very shocked.  Most of our contact with rare items doesn't allow for careful comparison.

Mike B.


What about that guy who sells copies of the Dr. Demento Dundracon modules?  Dandilion?  Dandelion?

Same guy who was involved in the forged copies of The Book of Taverns, by Gamelords.


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:21 pm 
 

There is a big field of work dealing with document examination. This article is a useful starting point:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Questioned ... xamination



It gives links to the major associations of forensic document examiners in the US and elsewhere, as well as a list of important texts.



Some of the association sites give contact details for private examiners, e.g.



http://www.swafde.org/private.html



Perhaps the costs would be prohibitive. But maybe someone could contact such a person. Basically say part of a prominent group in RPG collecting and worried about forgeries. At least ask them to point us in the right right direction concerning determining basic characteristics of original rare games for authentification or to point us people that deal with forgeries of collectibles.



If someone wants to get abreast of the techniques, this looks like a good book!



http://www.amazon.com/Scientific-Examin ... 589&sr=8-6

  

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:30 pm 
 

It looks authentic to me but it's hard to say based on the pictures.

I would always recommend asking for higher resolution photos from unknown sellers.  If that's not possible and you still wanted it, buy it and scan portions, or take high res photos, and submit them to the forum.  Several members from here, myself included, could probably authenticate it fairly easily.  There are several ways to differentiate an original from a copy.

I would purchase it through a method that allows for reimbursement (Paypal using a credit card).  If not convinced it is authentic, it could then be returned easily.

  

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:14 pm 
 

Aneoth wrote:
mbassoc2003 wrote:Any have the notion that there's a lot of these things cropping up?

I suspect that the ONLY way to be sure is for someone who already has (owns) an undesputed original to compare this one and the other recent E-Bay listings to that undisputed original. But then who is to say that the undisputed original is not a forgery itself and the recent ones are in fact originals?

I can not speak for the seller (word_guy); you could ask him yourself through eBay messaging.

By the way, word_guy is some odd fellow by the name of Paul Jaquays.   :D

(Sorry if I am outing him, but he seems like he would own an original rather than a forgery.)

  


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:24 pm 
 

Who is phatpusspuss again? Looks like an ok deal...


** expired eBay auction **

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:30 pm 
 

JohnGaunt wrote:I can not speak for the seller (word_guy); you could ask him yourself through eBay messaging.

By the way, word_guy is some odd fellow by the name of Paul Jaquays.   :D

(Sorry if I am outing him, but he seems like he would own an original rather than a forgery.)


Paul Jaquays lives in Rockwall, Texas?


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:04 am 
 

FormCritic wrote:
Paul Jaquays lives in Rockwall, Texas?


Apparantly so does Sandy Peterson (of Call of Cthulhu fame).

Other oddball Texas connections are Jeff Dee (Pflugerville, TX); Steve Marsh (Plano), and of course Gurps' Steve Jackson (Austin?).  

Not to mention Michael Moorcock who lives somewhere in East Texas (Yeh, I thought the same thing, Michael Moorcock?  How the hell did he end up in EAST TEXAS????), one of the inspirations for the D&D game itself (with his many fantasy creations including Elric).

Add to that the large number of members in the Texas Acaeum Mafia (too numerous to mention), and this place is practically a mecca for old school gamers....!  Makes you shake your head and wonder why there isn't anything resembling a large scale gaming convention anywhere in the state.....

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:09 am 
 

Badmike wrote:Steve Jackson (Austin?)

Definitely Austin. Home of Metagaming when Steve was just starting out as a designer ... and since home to SJ Games once Steve decided that he needed to exit stage left from Metagaming's impending implosion, circa early '80s.

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Post Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:14 am 
 

FormCritic wrote:
What about that guy who sells copies of the Dr. Demento Dundracon modules?  Dandilion?  Dandelion?

Same guy who was involved in the forged copies of The Book of Taverns, by Gamelords.


Case in point. It can't be that hard to put together forgeries, as the fake Gamelords stuff I have looks exactly like the originals, except for color.  Since the original Mass Confusion tournaments this guy churns out are apparantly photocopies, it hasn't been hard for him to sell hundreds of these over the years.

An intriguing note, I recently purchased many of the Call of Cthulhu monographs offered at the Chaosium website. Many of these are cheaply laster printed, and could be copied without much trouble at your local Kinkos, although I think it might be cost prohibitive to just do a few.  Many of the older fanzines could very easily be duplicated at the aforementioned Kinkos, as could many of the cheaper third party modules of the 80s.  As I said, I would be shocked to find out this has never happened.

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Post Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:04 am 
 

Badmike wrote:
Apparantly so does Sandy Peterson (of Call of Cthulhu fame).

Other oddball Texas connections are Jeff Dee (Pflugerville, TX); Steve Marsh (Plano), and of course Gurps' Steve Jackson (Austin?).  

Not to mention Michael Moorcock who lives somewhere in East Texas (Yeh, I thought the same thing, Michael Moorcock?  How the hell did he end up in EAST TEXAS????), one of the inspirations for the D&D game itself (with his many fantasy creations including Elric).

Add to that the large number of members in the Texas Acaeum Mafia (too numerous to mention), and this place is practically a mecca for old school gamers....!  Makes you shake your head and wonder why there isn't anything resembling a large scale gaming convention anywhere in the state.....

Mike B.


Rockwall, Texas was my first home town....my dimmest toddler memories are from Rockwall.


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:44 am 
 

Badmike wrote:Apparantly so does Sandy Peterson (of Call of Cthulhu fame).


Yes, Paul's definitely in TX, working for MS Ensemble Studios IIRC (along with Sandy).  

Badmike wrote:Not to mention Michael Moorcock who lives somewhere in East Texas (Yeh, I thought the same thing, Michael Moorcock?  How the hell did he end up in EAST TEXAS????), one of the inspirations for the D&D game itself (with his many fantasy creations including Elric).


MM lives in Lost Pines, TX, outside of Austin (I think?).  He moved to TX in the latter days of Thatcher's reign in the UK, in order to get away from the politics there.  He still maintains homes in the UK and Morocco IIRC.


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:19 am 
 

Badmike wrote:Apparantly so does Sandy Peterson (of Call of Cthulhu fame).

Other oddball Texas connections are Jeff Dee (Pflugerville, TX); Steve Marsh (Plano), and of course Gurps' Steve Jackson (Austin?).  


The Ragnarok Enterprises guy, David Nalle is also in Austin Texas.

So what your saying is that with so many industry guys there, its easy for them to share their knowledge of early printing processes to make good forgeries.  And that everyone should stay away from this copy.  Good advice Mike!

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Post Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:00 am 
 

Sweet looking 4th print white box + Greyhawk supplement:




** expired eBay auction **


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