WotC Kills the OCE!
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Post Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:58 pm 
 

 Quote:
 Copyright laws are there to protect the wealthy, and make the rich richer.  The logic behind them makes no sense....half the time copyright LAWYERS (those whose job is to study the law) can't even agree on what they mean.  


Copyright laws are intended to provide incentives for artistic expression, just like patents are to encourage innovation. If you didn't have copyright laws, someone could spend a year writing a book and another could simply make copies of it and produce it himself with no effort. Copyrights are fundamental to the notion of private property rights.

Now I would agree with you that the wealthy benefit from such laws, but its nothing special about them. The rich benefit from all laws. They have the resources to figure out and take advantage of all the complexities that the average person cannot. I mean the tax code is like 40,000 pages long. Copyright laws are equally complex.


I just realized what I said makes no sense.   8O  Obviously we need copyright laws.  What I was griping about is the fact that they can be changed any time at all (from, say, fifty years after the author's death to to 75 years, 100 years, 200 years, etc) usually at the hands of wealthy lobbyists who have a meal ticket to lose (aka the Disney maneuvers the last few years).  Once you get to 3rd-4th generation after the original artists/authors, there is very little evidence that it's protecting the rights of the authors or his heirs....usually, at that point it's protecting a corporation's assests.

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Post Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:48 am 
 

Altering from the "Copyright" tangent, I noticed people were using the link for downloads as this: http://enworld.rpgnow.com/

As opposed to just the RPGNow site: http://rpgnow.com/, so I am just curious as to why. Is the EnWorld site a better portal?

In addition, I have not purchased any PDF's, YET, but I would like to know people's opinions of their quality. I have read several reviews from the RPGNow site and they all vary, so I have been reticent to make any purchases. Some of the FREE downloads have been acceptable though. The only reasons that I would like to get some PDF's is:
1) Allows me to print & use what I need, without putting any stress on my collectible copy, plus saves me from having to wash my hands and put my white gloves on :thumright:
2) It would be much easier to copy & paste, if these PDF's are OCR copies, text from them and incorporate what I want into my own designs.

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Post Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:00 am 
 

The availability of inexpensive pdfs might have some effect on the cheapest and rattiest old copies out there, but the collector copies and the pdfs are two different markets driven by an entirely different supply demand curve.

Prices on the originals seem very high to me, and might be in a balloon right now anyway.  In the longer term, I'd expect those prices to rise if the availability of the pdf actually gets more people playing OD&D.  This would bring more people into the collector market as buyers.

Since I don't think that (ie, new players) is going to happen in any significant way, I don't think the prices for the collector-quality originals is going to be affected in the slightest bit either way other than by the same market forces operating right now.

  


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Post Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:16 pm 
 

PM-Knight wrote:Altering from the "Copyright" tangent, I noticed people were using the link for downloads as this: http://enworld.rpgnow.com/

As opposed to just the RPGNow site: http://rpgnow.com/, so I am just curious as to why. Is the EnWorld site a better portal?

In addition, I have not purchased any PDF's, YET, but I would like to know people's opinions of their quality. I have read several reviews from the RPGNow site and they all vary, so I have been reticent to make any purchases. Some of the FREE downloads have been acceptable though. The only reasons that I would like to get some PDF's is:
1) Allows me to print & use what I need, without putting any stress on my collectible copy, plus saves me from having to wash my hands and put my white gloves on :thumright:
2) It would be much easier to copy & paste, if these PDF's are OCR copies, text from them and incorporate what I want into my own designs.

Thanks,


RPGNow suffered a major breach of its credit/debit card reading system and apparently some customer data was compromised.  Faced with such a serious problem and being unable to secure their servers against that accident again they elected to close up shop rather than risk their customer's CC/DC data again.

The folks at enworld apparently knew how to eliminate the problem and offered to host them.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:22 am 
 

g026r wrote:I think it's a good thing.

I (shame of shames!) have never had a chance to even read the OCE, as even a fine copy tends to go for more than I can spare (once the outrageous eBay shipping is factored in), and this finally gets me an affordable and legal way to do so.

Oh, and:



Sounds like someone is still worried about the Tolkien estate. :D


Actually, I have an OCE in excellent shape that I bought new back in the early 80's from some sort of used book shop, I believe. Should have bought more of them!

  

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Post Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:56 am 
 

wow! i am amazed to see that item on sale: it was freely downloadable on a website some  time ago... (i wonder now how legal was the download even if the site was perfectly legal!)

anyway it should not affect the price of the printed version!


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Post Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:19 am 
 

Beyondthebreach wrote:It's off topic, but interesting Aneoth.  However, I must say, that this does sound great for the buyer.  All the buyer has to do is not be an idiot and ask to look at the survey.  If everything looks the same (i.e. no barn was built on the neighbor's property) then they do save hundreds of dollars.
I only mentioned a barn as an obvious problem. easily noted. There are many other issues (Some of them are not visible or apparent) that affect land ownership, such as:

Unwritten Rights (such as Access Easements, not covered in the title commitment), non-visible and possibly unrecorded easements (Underground gas lines, or water pipes), drainage problems, fence lines that were built slightly over the property line and so are not obvious. Any land purchase should include a new on-the-ground land survey.

An older survey will not show more recent situations. And possibly there were some problems or conditions that did exist back then and the previous surveyor missed them.

A home/land purchase is likely the single most expensive purchase that ANYONE will ever make in a lifetime. Why would anyone spend so much money without doing everything they can to insure that everything is right and proper? Only a current land survey made by a competent registered professional land surveyor can help you there. No real estate professional can and no title company will. Buyer beware.

You will pay your REA between 3 and 6 percent of the total cost, and the title insurance will cost a good bit of change as well, but go ahead and make that 100k-300k home and/or land investment and save that 1k-3k on a current boundary survey.  I wouldn't. :roll:

You might also tell your surgeon not to bother scrubbing up, or don't bother wearing gloves before sticking his nasty hands inside your body during surgery. Why use anesthetic? Doesn't that cost more? I could save thousands on that procedure if I tough it out without it can't I?

I know....... they are not the same thing........  Not getting a land survey is not life threatening, but (IMO) it is just as silly.

BTW: You will NEVER see the rich home buyers or companies buy land or homes or make improvements to property or existing buildings without a recent land survey. They know better. Mostly it is the inexperienced or young new home buyer who gets swindled by the title insurance companies to waive the survey requirement as they are convinced to defray the cost of a current survey by signing the survey requirement waiver form.

They do this to hold down the closing costs, since most new home buyers can oftentimes barely afford the purchase in the first place and the initial cost savings seem to be a very good thing at first glance to those young buyers. The  REA and the title companies will do ANYTHING short of illegal to make the closing happen.


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Last edited by Gnat the Beggar on Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
  

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Post Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:43 am 
 

Mythmere wrote:The availability of inexpensive pdfs might have some effect on the cheapest and rattiest old copies out there, but the collector copies and the pdfs are two different markets driven by an entirely different supply demand curve.

Prices on the originals seem very high to me, and might be in a balloon right now anyway.  In the longer term, I'd expect those prices to rise if the availability of the pdf actually gets more people playing OD&D.  This would bring more people into the collector market as buyers.

Since I don't think that (ie, new players) is going to happen in any significant way, I don't think the prices for the collector-quality originals is going to be affected in the slightest bit either way other than by the same market forces operating right now.


I agree with this statement :)


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Post Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:52 pm 
 

OD&D advertisement:

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/images/dt ... 728x90.gif

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Post Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:57 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:I don't think that a free download kills the OCE, that is probably a bit extreme, but I am quite sure it will affect the value somewhat.


not downward much if incomplete set with damaged and taped box is too tempting to resell at c-note bin  
** expired eBay auction **
:) :)

  


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:55 am 
 

Rakeesh sah Tarna wrote:
not downward much if incomplete set with damaged and taped box is too tempting to resell at c-note bin  
** expired eBay auction **
:) :)




You might want to read the fact that that set also has a G,D & H in there that will likely go for $20 to $25 at least as well.


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:34 am 
 

- You might want to read the fact that that set also has a G,D & H in there that will likely go for $20 to $25 at least as well.[/quote]

did read. $7 this copy  
** expired eBay auction **
even if cougar tried to stiff buyer on postage and was more on second try. do you know any better condition??

  


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:47 am 
 

Rakeesh sah Tarna wrote:- You might want to read the fact that that set also has a G,D & H in there that will likely go for $20 to $25 at least as well.

did read. $7 this copy  
** expired eBay auction **
even if cougar tried to stiff buyer on postage and was more on second try. do you know any better condition??[/quote]



Do you mean aside form the water damage that Coug lists that the seller I purchased that set from indicates this copy is in VG to NM and the fact that the Coug in general has been taking a beating lately, I'll take my chances.   Then again, looks like Dave did just fine here on a seperate water damaged copy, 8 days after your auction and just 3 days ago:




** expired eBay auction **




Are selectively picking and choosing where you are linking to now?


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:54 am 
 

bombadil wrote:By the way, speaking of lovely old dice from OCEs and earlier, John Huckerby, if you're reading this, I haven't forgotten.  Your dice are on the way!   :D

Maybe they could PDF the dice too.
They could have little tabs with 'fold here' and 'glue here' written on them.


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:34 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Maybe they could PDF the dice too.
They could have little tabs with 'fold here' and 'glue here' written on them.

The dice sides should come in random packs...rare, uncommon, or common based on the numeral depicted thereon.

"Damn it, another pack of threes and fours!  At least they threw in an 11 this time.  What do I have to do to get a 20?"
"I saw a guy selling a 20 on eBay, but he wants like $400 for it..."

Don't even think about it, that patent is pending.

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:17 am 
 

Why limit yourself though?  Why just sell 1 - 20?  Why not make it so you build a die out of whatever sides you can get, and just package all the numbers you can think of.

Playing a game where rolling higher is better?  Build a d20 that goes from 20 to 40.
Playing a game where rolling lower is better?  Well, who wouldn't want a d20 that's all negative?

It could be a bigger excuse for wholesale highway robbery than Magic: The Gathering was!

...and I demand a cut of the royalties. :P

  

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:09 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Maybe they could PDF the dice too.
They could have little tabs with 'fold here' and 'glue here' written on them.

Umnnnnnnn.........

Do you mean something like the chits that came in some of the second edition box sets?
They are a replacement for dice and are made of thick paper.
PDF's would be quite simple to create.
http://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/setpages/basic.html
In the 5th and later print runs of the second edition box sets (After OD&D) cardboard or paper chits were included in box sets instead of dice as TSR apparently had a shortage of dice.
Cardboard chit sheet attached to the rulebook, featuring dice chits, a "how-to-use" description, and a dice coupon.  Around this time TSR experienced a dice shortage, and began including the dice chits instead of the dice and crayon...


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:43 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:Then again, looks like Dave did just fine here on a seperate water damaged copy, 8 days after your auction and just 3 days ago:


** expired eBay auction **





Maybe Megnelwil will share with us the condition of this copy when it arrives.  Those staples just don't look good to me.

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:03 pm 
 

I'll put up a couple of pics.

  


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:29 pm 
 

Mars wrote:
Maybe Megnelwil will share with us the condition of this copy when it arrives.  Those staples just don't look good to me.


megnelwil wrote:I'll put up a couple of pics.


Truthfully with respect to the dicussion, condition doesn't matter that much.  Actually the worse the condition of your copy megnelwil the better it works for my argument.  The fact is that it sold for $25 US.   For some reason our friend above is attempting to call me out as liar because I apparently had the audacity to say that I firmly believe that the OCE pdf will hurt its value in the long run and he attempting using my OCE purchase with the Gods, Demigods and Heroes a few days ago as "proof" that I am lying when I say this, although I am not sure why.   Considering OCEs have been throught the roof lately(I just sold one for $180 myself {granted OCEs typically don't go that high} and he already knows that) even if I only sell the OCE again for $80, I am likely to recoup most of my money and the last time I checked $80 is far < than $180, but then again I was always pretty good at math.

So for the above poster, yeah you got me, I really don't believe that its price will be hurt by the pdf, I am really lying when I say that.  This is all just my evil scheme to get everyone out there to sell me thier OCEs all cheap so I can make all kinds of money by misleading everyone.....muwahahaha.   Whatever.


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