WotC Kills the OCE!
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Post Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:41 pm 
 

Pdf Download

For $6, you too, can own your very own OCE...

Does this ruin the value? I don't know, but probably, some. Is it a sign of good things? I doubt it.

What do ya'll think? :)


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:01 pm 
 

I think it's a good thing.

I (shame of shames!) have never had a chance to even read the OCE, as even a fine copy tends to go for more than I can spare (once the outrageous eBay shipping is factored in), and this finally gets me an affordable and legal way to do so.

Oh, and:

This printing was released in 1977 and is the earliest printing we can make available for download (for legal reasons).


Sounds like someone is still worried about the Tolkien estate. :D

  


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:36 pm 
 

Surely only collectors were ever interested in the real article, the same collectors that would place a value of zero on a download?

  


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:56 pm 
 

It's somewhat interesting that the same basic thread exists on Dragonsfoot (primarily a playing site, for those unfamiliar) with the title "OD&D rules finally available for download."

Collectors might still crave the real deal, but the novelty of having an OCE just went down significantly.  I'd expect prices to drop as those with a passing interest in collecting (but significant disposable income) drop out of the bidding.

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Post Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:15 pm 
 

deimos3428 wrote:It's somewhat interesting that the same basic thread exists on Dragonsfoot (primarily a playing site, for those unfamiliar) with the title "OD&D rules finally available for download."

Collectors might still crave the real deal, but the novelty of having an OCE just went down significantly.  I'd expect prices to drop as those with a passing interest in collecting (but significant disposable income) drop out of the bidding.


Cmon guys....how many of the non-collectors were dropping $150 for just a chance of seeing the rules?  Owning a white box is just plain cool.  It doesn't matter if the rules are posted or not, it'll never be the real thing.

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:24 pm 
 

Why would I own 5 copies ????

after owning one and making my own PDF...

Cause I like it :)

So it shouldn't devalue my copies... I mean I have a free photo of a Ferrari but I haven't seen the prices drop lately...

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Post Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:43 pm 
 

These books were available for free a few years ago in pdf from Pen & Paper or a site like that.  It didn't seem to influence the market then and probably won't now.

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Post Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:47 pm 
 

Hi,

anyone willing to spend a lot of money on an item wants THAT item, not a copy.

Cheers,
Malcolm

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Post Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:59 pm 
 

I don't think that a free download kills the OCE, that is probably a bit extreme, but I am quite sure it will affect the value somewhat. Saying that, I still for the life of me can't get my head around why the hell people seem to think that supply and demand in a capatilist society works in all markets yet it some how ceases to exist when it comes to pdfs.  

If someone can explain that to me, I am all ears....


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:32 pm 
 

I personally don't think that pdf's can  (or ever will) significantly affect the price of books - that is either in print or out of print books.

There is a certain intangible, ascetic quality to books that can not be captured by technology.  I believe that books will be as popular hundreds of years from now as they are today and that no technological advancements will ever be able to match words printed on paper and bound together . . .

Therefore, I don't think pdf's will have even a dent in the value of OCE's.  In fact, I suspect that they will help increase it's value by drawing a few casual collectors in and then resulting in them wanting to purchase the actual item.

Capitalism always applies - and it is doing so here.  Books are a superior product and pdf's are vastly inferior.    Actual books will continue to reign supreme as they are of a design that is molded into the human consciousness and has proven to be so for thousands of years.  We will see if that will change with the progression of technology.  My guess is it won't.


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Last edited by Beyondthebreach on Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  

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Post Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:35 pm 
 

cannot put dice inside a pdf box :) :)

  


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:37 pm 
 

Dice?  We don't need not freaking dice.  We got randum number generaters!


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:42 pm 
 

:( :(

  


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:45 pm 
 

Are you all for real???  This is starting to get stupid now.  I am starting to wonder if today is April 1st or not.  
:?
AGAIN I ASK, why do the laws of supply and demand cease to exist when it comes to PDFs and nothing else in this world.

If copying works isn't such a big deal when it comes to value, then why do all these countries have those seemingly pesky Copyright laws in place??? I mean I know goverments have no problems wasting time and taxpayer money for no apparent reason whats-so-ever, but surely they could have come up with some other better ways to waste time and tax payer money, especially when it is so many different goverments doing it. Oh wait, nevermind, I get, its because that are all just MEAN and want to deny people the right to read all that published material easily.  Please....


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:48 pm 
 

By the way, speaking of lovely old dice from OCEs and earlier, John Huckerby, if you're reading this, I haven't forgotten.  Your dice are on the way!   :D


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:52 pm 
 

Clarkie

I am not being ignorant.  I truly believe that the market for pdf's of OCE's are people who were never going to buy an OCE in the first place!  They are either 3rd edition players with no interest who succumb to an "impulse" buy.  "Hey, only $6.00 - let's check it out!"

Or maybe they have a real interest, but never had any intention of spending more than $10 for one . . . therefore meaning that they were never really in the market to begin with.

Sure, maybe there are a few people who would have purchased one but won't do so because of the pdf . . . but I think this will be offset by those
who do purchase one because of discoverig the pdf rules.

OCE is a collectible item and out of print.  The same rules don't apply as with CD's that are just released.  It is the reason that burned CD's do not affect the sales of Record Albums - albums are for collectors who have no interest in a CD.


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:54 pm 
 

If copying works isn't such a big deal when it comes to value, then why do all these countries have those seemingly pesky Copyright laws in place???


The difference is the degree of substitutability. Copies of CDs, copies of ladies handbags, are very good substitutes for the real thing, and thus the demand for the real goods will fall with the availability of cheap substitutes.

PDFs aren't very good substitutes for the collectability of D&D items. Reprints would be better, but still probably not as good as say a CDR is to a CD. As such, one would expect there to be some downward pressure on price, but not as big. Of course, there is also the possibility that there would be upward pressure on price of the OCE due to increasing the awareness, nostalgia, etc.

  


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:01 pm 
 

Beyondthebreach wrote:Clarkie

I am not being ignorant.  I truly believe that the market for pdf's of OCE's are people who were never going to buy an OCE in the first place!  They are either 3rd edition players with no interest who succumb to an "impulse" buy.  "Hey, only $6.00 - let's check it out!"

Or maybe they have a real interest, but never had any intention of spending more than $10 for one . . . therefore meaning that they were never really in the market to begin with.

Sure, maybe there are a few people who would have purchased one but won't do so because of the pdf . . . but I think this will be offset by those
who do purchase one because of discoverig the pdf rules.

OCE is a collectible item and out of print.  The same rules don't apply as with CD's that are just released.  It is the reason that burned CD's do not affect the sales of Record Albums - albums are for collectors who have no interest in a CD.


BTB,
 Let me ask you this.  Do you honestly believe that there is not a single solitary person out there who had considered buying the real thing, but now since available as a cheap download, they have now decided not to?


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:49 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:Are you all for real???  This is starting to get stupid now.  I am starting to wonder if today is April 1st or not.  
:?
AGAIN I ASK, why do the laws of supply and demand cease to exist when it comes to PDFs and nothing else in this world.

If copying works isn't such a big deal when it comes to value, then why do all these countries have those seemingly pesky Copyright laws in place??? I mean I know goverments have no problems wasting time and taxpayer money for no apparent reason whats-so-ever, but surely they could have come up with some other better ways to waste time and tax payer money, especially when it is so many different goverments doing it. Oh wait, nevermind, I get, its because that are all just MEAN and want to deny people the right to read all that published material easily.  Please....


I sell for a living and have yet to see a pdf significanctly effect a TRUE collectible in the aftermarket sales...

Copyright laws are there to protect the wealthy, and make the rich richer.  The logic behind them makes no sense....half the time copyright LAWYERS (those whose job is to study the law) can't even agree on what they mean.  They are the biggest boondoggle since the income tax.  Besides that the laws vary from country to country...what is legal to do in the UK, say, and in the US, are totally different. I think most of us can agree on a set, logical dates for copyrights to be extended to (say, 50 years after the death of the creator). Instead, we get ever-changing rules that are extended continually when a choice property comes up (such as the Disney estate, or the Burroughs estate, or the Tolkien estate), and a plethora of copyright rules, regulations and requirements that most professionals have a difficult time sorting through.

If you truly don't think the government has NOTHING better to do than waste our tax money, I have to disagree...that's what they do BEST  :wink:

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:55 pm 
 

Beyondthebreach wrote:I personally don't think that pdf's can  (or ever will) significantly affect the price of books - that is either in print or out of print books.

There is a certain intangible, ascetic quality to books that can not be captured by technology.  I believe that books will be as popular hundreds of years from now as they are today and that no technological advancements will ever be able to match words printed on paper and bound together . . .

Therefore, I don't think pdf's will have even a dent in the value of OCE's.  In fact, I suspect that they will help increase it's value by drawing a few casual collectors in and then resulting in them wanting to purchase the actual item.

Capitalism always applies - and it is doing so here.  Books are a superior product and pdf's are vastly inferior.    Actual books will continue to reign supreme as they are of a design that is molded into the human consciousness and has proven to be so for thousands of years.  We will see if that will change with the progression of technology.  My guess is it won't.


In this case an OCE is a SUBSTANTIALLY different product than the pdf....and it's a collectible besides.  I agree with BTB, a pdf of an OCE is nothing to me and many other collectors. Hell I bet most of the buyers already own the boxed set, they just want a handy set of the rules they can mess around with while on the computer (that's the basic purpose all my pdfs serve).  
  Not to mention reading a pdf is a beating....is it just me, or do you get "tired eye" after about an hour doing this?  Not to mention most boxed sets, particularly with maps, are VASTLY superior to the pdfs. I have the free pdf download of The North boxed set, for example, and I still use my true boxed set all the time...mostly because the scans of the maps are atrocious and hard to use.

Mike B.


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