PDFs of modules and magazines...
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Post Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:21 pm 
 

Again though its extremely easy to say, "Hell yeah I'd take one for free or for $5 when it normally costs over $1,000!", especially when you don;t already own it.  I think the people who don't have one neglect to look at it from that standpoint.  

Another thing that hasn;t been said about pdfs, (originally legal or not) that all the security measures in the world can't protect against is that they are extremely easy to distrute illegally once they are created.   I'd be willing to bet my nuts that if a pdf of PotVQ comes out legally whether its free or not, it wont be more than 2 weeks time before some asshat shows up on Ebay selling them by the hundereds.  The question is then, "How do you combat that?"


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:28 pm 
 

Traveller wrote:Let's see...I signed up for a membership here in what...2004?  I've been a part of the site for three years now.  I've had a good time in the various discussions I've participated in.  All despite the fact that I don't own, and likely never will own original copies of Palace of the Vampire Queen, Starstone, ST1, Lost Tamochan, Lost Caverns of Tsojconth, and others.  In fact, of these various rarities, I've only seen one: the orange covered Palace of the Silver Princess.  The only reason I've seen the original Palace of the Silver Princess is because WotC/Hasbro released a PDF of it for free, I downloaded it, and printed it on my printer.

Now, did orange B3's suddenly become worthless because the PDF was released?  Am I suddenly an evil monster because I happen to own a legitimate copy of that B3 PDF that I couldn't realistically afford?  Now, that last question is a rhetorical one, and there's no need to answer it, but the same questions can be asked of any legal PDF that is available out in Internet land.  I do seem to recall a devaluation in the collecting value of that particular item, however, that particular module is still rather highly prized despite the devaluation.

I understand what you're saying in this case of PotV and the majority of the other "keys".  Because it was typed out on either a manual typewriter or an IBM Selectric, it's easily copied and easily distributed, and as a result, counterfeits can be easily confused with genuine copies.  Despite that legitimate concern, I still would be interested in free and legal PDFs of Palace of the Vampire Queen, Starstone, ST1, Lost Tamochan, Lost Caverns of Tsojconth, and others.  To me at least, the historical value of the documents in question is still as great as if I had owned genuine printed copies.

Case in point, a genealogy website in England offered for one week unlimited access to image copies of the HMS Titanic passenger manifest.  With effort, the manifest could be copied and easily confused with genuine copies.  However, while a legitimate concern, the genealogy website offered copies of the pages anyway, because I believe that to them, the historical value of the document remained regardless of whether it was an original or a copy.

The same thing, but on a much smaller scale, applies to the various "keys" of RPG history.  Their historical value will always be there, even if the collecting value dies out.  From what I see though, this isn't so much about protecting the original documents as it is about maintaining the collecting value of said original documents.  A concern that from what I recall, is unfounded, if the WotC/Hasbro release of the original B3 is any indicator.


I kind of find it interesting that you acknowledge that a pdf is likely to devalue an original and yet you still are okay with that. B3 is a classic example that shows that wide distribution of a pdf can most certainly retard the value of an item i.e OB3 by all accounts is actually more rare than ST1 and yet ST1 when it comes up for auction sees values 2 1/2 times that of the OB3.  Neither one of these items are of particularly high quality from an adventure standpoint(and thats being mighty generous), so where is the common denominator?  I'd say a good place to start is the widely proliferated free pdf of OB3 would be an excellent place to start.  

Now, does that make you or anyone else(myself included) a bad person for taking it because it both legal and free of charge, absolutely not, but I am not sure that a compeling arguement for releasing it free either.  The fact is of all the rares out there OB3 is at the bottom of the totem pole for me, based solely on the fact that I have the pdf and the mystery of it isn't there.  Because of the lack of mystery to it, it makes it to me less valuable and interesting as I now already know whats in it. That I am sorry to say is the 100% truth and I suspect its the same for a lot of people.


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:49 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:Because of the lack of mystery to it, it makes it to me less valuable and interesting as I now already know whats in it. That I am sorry to say is the 100% truth and I suspect its the same for a lot of people.


Very well said.

For me, however, the lack of mystery makes the item more valuable and interesting.

But I suspect you're correct that mine is the minority opinion.

Keith


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:06 pm 
 

I would buy a reprint of POTVQ if the original author (and possibly the original artists) were involved. Not interested in pdf of a rare, from a collector's view.

'What would Jim Perelman do' if pdf was around back then?  :D

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Post Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:01 am 
 

I've read this thread with interest, and a little concern due to it's divisive nature.

First let me say that I am NOT likely to be buying the originals of anything even approaching a rare until my lottery numbers come up. But when they do I will be buying as many rare/rare/valuable/interesting/unique/oddball items that I can. I will not be buying these items as an investment, I will be buying them because I REALLY want them, which in my opinion is the only valid reason to drop serious money on gaming items - lets face it there are far better ways to make money than speculating on the gaming market.

PDF's - I would buy a legal PDF of a rare item just to see it - this is the only way I am ever going to realistically have access to many items out there.
Illegal PDFS are another thing - I cannot justify this to myself so I won't do it - I know people do it, and I utterly condemn doing it for a profit but it isn't going to stop unfortunately. This is a bad thing, but it isn't the worst thing in the world by distance, and certainly isn't worth losing sleep over.

Forgeries - Hmmmm - haven't any expertise in this but I suspect it has happened and will happen again, There is little we can do about this I'm afraid - Caveat emptor and all that but really all most people do is go into any deal with their eyes open, do all the right research, and then hope for the best. Buying from a reputable source is always a good idea but we don't know if that's foolproof- what if our reputable source bought a fake in good a faith 10 years ago and is selling it today? To pick a name out of the air so no insult or harm intended, if Al (Killjoy) was selling a super rare I would have no issues in bidding with utmost confidence, and would recomend him to anyone unreservedly BUT what if Al had been stitched up unknowingly?

Values - I don't think PDFs harm values in the medium /long term - I have no evidence to back this up, it's just opinion

Lastly - Shady Dealer  - Badmike has vouched for you, and I think in these forums that counts (rightly) for a great deal, however, I do have points to make.
1-On another thread I pointed out your ebay about me page - if you really want acceptance here then frankly your attitude to these forums sucks. It might be just my perception of it but I don't think you come across well.
2-The name - it may be a joke but some here take shady dealer issues very seriously, and a handful, who need not be named :wink:  have worked damned hard to make the community at large aware of them, and try and stop their nefarious dealings - I for one am glad they do, so for me the joke isn't funny.
3-If, as Badmike says you are a stand up guy with the interests of our hobby at heart then I am right behind you - anyone willing to put efforts in on my behalf(!) is okay by me, I just need to see the evidence. FWIW I think that the efforts you are making with the Wee Warriors thing are worthy and valid and I wish you luck with them.
I don't mean to come accross as  a dick but I feel that you got off on the wrong foot - I hope that you continue to post here in a positive and decent way. I will certainly wouldn't hold a bad start against you, as this forum can be quite caustic to new posters I'm afraid.

I wish you well with this project and hope you become a long term contributer to these forums.

Carl


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:05 am 
 

bclarkie wrote:I kind of find it interesting that you acknowledge that a pdf is likely to devalue an original and yet you still are okay with that.

Why are you so adamant about keeping the value so high?

Why does it surprise you that I'm ok with a PDF devaluing an original copy?

You are, to the best of my knowledge, first and foremost a collector.  You actively seek out things to fill the holes in your collection.  Although you do play, playing is not the primary motivator for you.  Is that accurate?

I am a player.  With few exceptions, I buy things I like because I either want to read them, play them, or swipe useful stuff from them.  At the same time, I also have developed a bit of a historical interest in how Dungeons & Dragons developed from the original three books into the AD&D that many of us played in the 80s.  To me, when it came to developing an general idea of how the OD&D rules developed into AD&D, hardcopy or PDF made no difference to me when it came to doing the research.  Monetary value?  Meh...it's more fun playing this stuff than watching it gather dust on a high shelf.

Since my priorities differ from yours (player over collector), it doesn't surprise me that you're surprised at my statement.



  


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:49 am 
 

I've read this thread with great interest, and I have to say it reminds me of nothing else so much as it does the debate over ROMs and emulation.

For those who aren't avid video gamers, I'll try and explain briefly.  A ROM is a computer file made from a console cartridge or CD medium, like a Super Nintendo or Sega Genesis.  An emulator is a program for your computer that allows you to load a ROM file and play the game on a platform it was not meant to be originally played on.  Like making illegal PDF files, making and distributing ROMs is a violation of copyright law.

Obviously, there are many sides to the debate.  The lawfully-aligned point out that it's a violation of copyright, against the law, so don't do it.  The more neutrally-aligned point out that while it is technically breaking the law, some of these games have been out of print for twenty years or more, the systems to play them on are very hard to find, and in some cases the cartridges themselves no longer work due to dead batteries that store save games so, while it may not be right, it seems a shame that these classic games should just be lost to time with no means to play them once the last NES finally bites the dust.  The chaotic, of course, tend to feel that they would not (or could not) pay money for the game in the first place (especially if it is impossible to find physically), so them having it isn't really costing the company or copyright holder one cent and nobody should care what they do with their time.

From a preservationist standpoint, I'd love to see PDFs of some of the older, out-of-print items available.  Like several others have voiced, I'll likely never in my life see an ST-1 (and even if I do, I'll never have enough money to buy it).  But for nostalgia alone, I'd love to see what all the fuss is about.  I was ecstatic as all heck to see WotC release the orange B3 for free on their website; I've known it existed ever since I read the blurb about the original being changed in the module info for B3 in the B1-9 In Search of Adventure compilation, and to finally get to see it was simply amazing, because I knew I'd never be able to find or afford the real thing.  At the same time, while I'm a collector, I'm not a speculator.  I'm not intent on making a cent off of my collection, I don't run an eBay store, and it's not going to help me through retirement, but I can surely see how someone who had taken great pains to acquire two or three would be upset if the market suddenly devalued them.  On the other hand, maybe all the PDF did was put the market back to normal - after all, most of the people who bought a reprint of Action Comics#1 didn't do it because they wanted a collector's item to sell for hundreds or thousands of dollars - they just wanted to see the first appearance of Superman.  And from an economist's standpoint, if more people benefited from this than were hurt by this, it was a "good" thing.

I suffer from the problem of being able to see all sides of the argument.  My inner self tells me that the number of people who would be delighted in finally being able to see what all the fuss was about would far outweigh the number of people who might get upset at the market fluctuation such a thing would produce.  I also realize that me being in the group of people who would most directly benefit from such a PDF release of ST-1 or any other rare/OoP resource I was interested in perusing makes me biased to that opinion whether I like it or not. :)

So I will float the neutral opinion - I will "go where the wind takes me" with this issue.  If someone releases it legally and I can acquire it legally without having to sell both of my kidneys, I'll probably be interested.  If it never happens, then I will be content with the mystique of knowing that somewhere out there exists a copy of ST-1 that might be mine should I happen to win the lottery.  And, in the end, I think that's all we really can do.

My apologies for the long post.  I hope it makes sense.

- Michael

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Post Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:04 am 
 

Traveller wrote:Why are you so adamant about keeping the value so high?

Why does it surprise you that I'm ok with a PDF devaluing an original copy?

You are, to the best of my knowledge, first and foremost a collector.  You actively seek out things to fill the holes in your collection.  Although you do play, playing is not the primary motivator for you.  Is that accurate?

I am a player.  With few exceptions, I buy things I like because I either want to read them, play them, or swipe useful stuff from them.  At the same time, I also have developed a bit of a historical interest in how Dungeons & Dragons developed from the original three books into the AD&D that many of us played in the 80s.  To me, when it came to developing an general idea of how the OD&D rules developed into AD&D, hardcopy or PDF made no difference to me when it came to doing the research.  Monetary value?  Meh...it's more fun playing this stuff than watching it gather dust on a high shelf.

Since my priorities differ from yours (player over collector), it doesn't surprise me that you're surprised at my statement.


I never said "surprising", I said interesting.  :)   My point is that of course you don't give a rats ass if PotVQ loses value, you have nothing invested in it.  I would very surprised however if you invested $1,000 in one and still felt the same way or even if you came into one by accident cheaply and still felt that way, as then you would actually have something to lose in this.  As I noted before, its always easier spending and losing someone else's money than it is your own.  It's easy to write off someone else's loss as you don't have to live with it.

I really have nothing to lose in this yet I am still trying to look at the view point from both sides. There are lots of things in this life that I would absolutely love to have and yet reality dictates that I can't afford them.  The only thing that makes this any different than other things is the process in which it can be copied where as most other things can't be.  The fact remains though, that sometimes in life you just have to do without because you can't afford it.  Does it suck I can't have everything that I want?  Sure it does, but I fail to see how my own desires and curiosities should take precedent over other people who have more money than me, "Just because I want it".  

I also understand that people want to see what they think is unattainable cheaply and I can respect that as wlel.  To be honest, I think if this does see the light of day in a pretty much unaltered form that there are going to be a lot of disappointed people out there, but that simply my own opinion and thats a different debate for a different time.

My only priorities in this debate are simply to try and get everyone to see all sides of the issue.


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:11 am 
 

double post


Last edited by Mars on Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:13 am 
 

brute wrote:I would buy a reprint of POTVQ if the original author (and possibly the original artists) were involved. Not interested in pdf of a rare, from a collector's view.


Personally, I think that if a PDF of these came out, I would probably buy them and then not worry about getting an original copy.  I'm curious to look them over but not for $500+ each.  I do often wonder how long these items can retain the values that they are currently at.  With the Wee Warriors stuff, I think there are a few hardcore collectors that really keep this market afloat.  Same thing goes for the nonTSR market as well.  A half dozen people keeping the prices up.  

Books like Booty and the Beasts have taken a pretty big hit lately with a few copies showing up over the last few months.  I remember last year looking at NK or Wayne's and they were selling copies for $250.  The going rate on Ebay currently seems to be about $100 with a steady decrease in the last 3 auctions.

I'm not a very big fan of PDFs mainly because of the copying factor.  If the authors are giving these away for free then no worries but if they are charging some token amount for them, they will be copied and show up in various bittorent files within a week of release.  I pointed out a link a while back where some guy was asking for pdfs of the Wee Warriors items to include with his torrent.  I think my trouble is just that I am fed up with reading on various newsgroups, request after request for illegal pdfs where there is some latent idea that if it is in an electronic format that it is freely distributable.

What I would like to see is a compilation reprint of all the Wee Warriors modules with some history about the company, maybe some new sketches by Morno, original covers to their products, Wee Warriors product list, etc.  Something like that I would happily pay $100 for and it would be less likely to be copied into a pdf, etc - or even offer a pdf of it for sale as well.

With the Adventure Gaming magazines, I own a complete set of these and its not the easiest thing to get a full set of.  There are only 13 issues and they are relatively cheap but just harder to find.  I don't know what contracts Tim had all of the contributor's sign but if they were similar to the ones for Dragon magazine then every contributor would have to consent to allow the change of media from print to electronic or be compensated.  The number that I heard for the Dragon Magazine Archive was that they had to reimburse every author of every independent article for a total of half a million dollars.  Although they decided to do this, other companies that tried this such as the White Dwarf magazine archive couldn't afford to and scrapped the project even though they had already created the PDFs and made a small batch of them.  I talked with Bob Liddil a little bit about doing pdfs for Sorcerer's Apprentice but he said this was just not a feasible thing to do for the same reasons.

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Post Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:13 am 
 

Again, I wish not to watch the thread swing off to some new direction, but only to address these points as they arise... and if it needs it's own thread, by all means...

gyg wrote:Lastly - Shady Dealer  - Badmike has vouched for you, and I think in these forums that counts (rightly) for a great deal, however, I do have points to make.
1-On another thread I pointed out your ebay about me page - if you really want acceptance here then frankly your attitude to these forums sucks. It might be just my perception of it but I don't think you come across well.


I'd have to hunt down the specific post you made, but if anyone looked at it from "both sides" as many are attempting to do about the PDFs, you'd see why I pushed back a bit...

The very first post about me in these forums was:

***
This guy is shady on many different levels...
***

(note I have been an eBay member for about 7 years and 100% feedback with around 180 at that time... sorta hit me like someone accusing me of being a child molester or a traitor to my country... )

and the 3 reasons I was "shady" on so many different levels:

***
... $25 opening bid w/ water damage ...

... $9 to ship a 4-5oz item ...

... just copy and paste text from this website...
***

Pretty lame reasons to make someone "shady", especially since the chainmail sold for $30 in my store later... I have yet to spend less than about $8.50 to ship ANY item... and yes I did use text from this site without referencing this site, but I have been using text from hundreds of sites for many years and it never bothered anyone (not that I should do it without giving credit to the site, just never thought about it, and from now on I'll reference any site I use information from)

Then the next post about me:

***
...This guy is an asshat...
***

I am being called names ???!!! I must have stepped back 36 years to 3rd grade or something (just a bit harsher term than I'd have heard in 3rd grade though... maybe a butt head back then)

Not to rehash anything that's been said, but obviously there was no where for me to go, the gloves were off at the Acaeum and I was unaware until someone brought the post to my attention (I had never even read the forums, EVER, until May 03 2007)

The day I read it, I removed my 3 posts in the classifieds, and I apologized for being a bother and advised I wanted my account removed and would no longer post in the forums.... and I added reference to the Acaeum in all my eBay auctions.... many may not have liked my snide references to the Acaeum at that time, but it's funny how many here "flocked" to the auctions to read what I wrote... at least I was heard in return...

In any case, I have no "attitude" about these forums other than my current last line in my "about me page"

--
(the site is great, the owner is great, and 99% of the users are probably great, just tread carefully when visiting as the few who "bark" the loudest probably keep many at a distance)
--


I feel that is a fair statement after actually attempting to join in the forums of a site I have used for research for a long time. It is of course based on my opinion and treatment, and my opinion is not likely to change for some time as there are those here that seem to flip from being nice one minute and rip your head off the next with little to no provocation... and those do scare off some users that might otherwise participate more often.

I emailed Scott the following among other things at that time:

...If for any reason you have read any of my eBay listings and find the
references to The Acaeum out of line, please let me know and I'll edit
them to your satisfaction....

Scott made no such request.


gyg wrote:2-The name - it may be a joke but some here take shady dealer issues very seriously, and a handful, who need not be named Wink have worked damned hard to make the community at large aware of them, and try and stop their nefarious dealings - I for one am glad they do, so for me the joke isn't funny.


The name is not a joke, it's more of a "badge" for now. Many here were quick to "jump" on the band wagon to label me a Shady Dealer... and now that I wear the title given to me, those same people all of sudden don't want me to wear the badge ??? very confused ... either I am or I am not ? ... should those that were so quick to "jump" in have a change of heart or attitude or perception... please fill me in... I have had 3 persons "retract" what they said, (I am not saying anyone has reason to be sorry nor that everyone is "required" to accept me or extend a welcoming hand).

I noticed that my account that I requested to be removed it still active, and should I feel at some point I am accepted (I know not everyone here agrees with everyone and thus I don't expect to visit here and presume we will all like each other all the time) but if I feel attitudes about me are more "rounded" and not one sided, I may start using my original account and leave this account to fade away... as of yet that hasn't happened, but the responses, emails and PMs I have received from some have definitely come quicker than I expected, so use of this handle may end quicker than I thought.

I believe in pointing out the true Shady Dealers but agree with some that the accusation should be a bit more based on something "Shady", not just some speculated perception of someone based on something a person or two doesn't like.

gyg wrote:3-If, as Badmike says you are a stand up guy with the interests of our hobby at heart then I am right behind you - anyone willing to put efforts in on my behalf(!) is okay by me, I just need to see the evidence. FWIW I think that the efforts you are making with the Wee Warriors thing are worthy and valid and I wish you luck with them.
I don't mean to come accross as a dick but I feel that you got off on the wrong foot - I hope that you continue to post here in a positive and decent way. I will certainly wouldn't hold a bad start against you, as this forum can be quite caustic to new posters I'm afraid.

I wish you well with this project and hope you become a long term contributer to these forums.


And lastly, I do have the best interest of the hobby at heart, and I am one to take the time and spend the money to better a cause, thus helping Tim Kask to get his magazines out to PDF or even old modules. (and I do dontate 10% of all eBay sales to the Aceaum)... but I also have lots of stuff sitting in cabinets and on shelves I keep telling my self I will put in a garage sale (never do that, no money)... and figured I'd create an eBay store and let it sit there if need be until it sells.. yes I do put some items online for higher than normal prices.. and in some cases some have sold (great, I could use the money after buying a PotVQ and         Lost Tamoachan) ... some items I have posted way out there.. as advertisement of sorts... I am experimenting with eBay to see what works best for me.. but I am not Shady...

I do appreciate your comments and extended hand of welcome and with each such comment I do lean toward no longer using this handle... but I am not there yet...

Reviewing even recent posts about me I have been labeled the following:

Shady Dealer
Asshat
Muppet
Moron
Diarrhea (I was called diarrhea in about 3rd grade as well)

I still feel like it's 3rd grade here.. and as 3rd graders we like to puff up our chests and dare others to bring it on.. or double dare 'em...

So for now, I am Shady Dealer (it's better than Asshat, though if that had been the first reference to me, I would probably be using that name at the moment)

But I have decided that I will post and be as positive as possible and attempt to contribute to the site as best I can rather than be a "lurker".

Now where were we on the PDFs for magazines and modules topic ???

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Post Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:45 am 
 

bclarkie wrote:My point is that of course you don't give a rats ass if PotVQ loses value, you have nothing invested in it.  I would very surprised however if you invested $1,000 in one and still felt the same way or even if you came into one by accident cheaply and still felt that way, as then you would actually have something to lose in this.  As I noted before, its always easier spending and losing someone else's money than it is your own.  It's easy to write off someone else's loss as you don't have to live with it.


This may be the case with some people but I would suspect that most who own one arent going to care much.  Obviously anyone that is collecting for investment purposes only will have the most to lose if a pdf is created and POTVQ loses value.  But people that collect for a myriad of different reasons probably won't jump out their office window just because their POTVQ that they won on Ebay for $1200 is now valued at only $800.

I reiterate that if a pdf of any rare item is made, it can and should be done in a way that will make it as difficult as possible for people to edit it so that it looks exactly like the original.  However I love the idea that was mentioned of compiling Palace, Dwarven Glory, and Misty Isles.  Think of the possibilities.  Add new artwork, include background information on the authors, historical information about the production of the items, put it all on archival quality paper, and put them in a nice slipcase.  I would easily pay $100 for something like that.  Or like Pied Piper did with Bottle City...put together a collector's edition and limit it to 25 - 50 signed and numbered copies and then based on interest, release a different regular edition.  Man that would be sweet.  :D

...This guy is an asshat...


I must say Doug, I didnt call you any names but I feel a bit responsible since if I am not mistaken I was the person that introduced the word 'asshat' to the forum.  It is such a useful, multi-dimensional description that I use it to describe Badmike as much as possible.  :wink:


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:24 am 
 

ShadyDealer wrote:
Yes, this is a great idea. I was leaning toward a more digital approach, but a physical clear overlay with a light stencil to represent a watermark of sorts would be harder to remove for sure.

I'd do both, if possible, to thoroughly eliminate easy counterfeiting.  Alternatively, if you're just interested in letting people get the content and aren't too concerned about nostalgia -- why not create an entirely reformatted and different printing?  ;)

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Post Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:28 am 
 

Traveller wrote:Since my priorities differ from yours (player over collector), it doesn't surprise me that you're surprised at my statement.

I don't know about you guys, but when I DM, I need to see all the rolls or they don't count.  Please reroll for surprise, please.  And pass the Mountain Dew. :D

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Post Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:29 am 
 

deimos3428 wrote:I'd do both, if possible, to thoroughly eliminate easy counterfeiting.  Alternatively, if you're just interested in letting people get the content and aren't too concerned about nostalgia -- why not create an entirely reformatted and different printing?  ;)


Best idea yet!!  Not scans but a re-release.  It will preserve the collectable price of the original and introduce a new bunch to the actual content.

I would volunteer my services to such a project.  I ahave actually already started adapting POTVQ to my present campaign. :)


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:38 am 
 

I actually like the ideas presented to re-release..

I have presented a possible set of options to Peter and hope he is open to the idea... I know he may not have the time to spend on any such project, but I think there are a few here that would be willing to "flesh out" the old modules and other stuff so Peter just has to "approve" the work.

I think Peter would at least get us some history on how and why the modules came about, maybe even a storyline to work with etc. it's important he is on board and anyone else that was part of the original.

I hope to know more over the next week to see if it's even really possible.

I think some how the exact original could be included with a re-release, as in it would be reprinted inside the re-release thus in totally different font, paging etc and would give many a comparison without actually letting a quality scanned copy of the original out to the masses ...

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Post Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:16 am 
 

Wow! The same old issues come out every time the PDF subject is run through. I suppose it has to be gone through every year for all the newbies to ask the same old questions and air their views.

Despite my absence from the forum over the past nine months, I still lurk (although the sudden scarpering of the wife has curtailed my eBay habit somewhat). I may even have to sell up some of my collection.

I have almost everything on Afterglow2.com in PDF form now. There are a few gaps, mostly among the uniques and the mundane $2 a book stuff that I haven't got the time to scan. But my collection is largely complete, and I'm now collecting permissions to publish electronically.

I have PoVQ 1st and 3rd, DG 2nd, and MI in PDF, but in my opinion, a redrafting would be a much more prudent release, something along the lines of the PPP mods we've all invested so heavily in.

So, Allan/Rob... If Peter is up for republishing two of the most well known rares of all time (although hardley the best of quality), maybe PPP could approach and publish?


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:42 am 
 

As I noted before, its always easier spending and losing someone else's money than it is your own.  It's easy to write off someone else's loss as you don't have to live with it.


This is not a valid argument. After all, aren't other people who are against reprints or pdfs causing us to lose money by artificially keeping prices high? The argument can work both ways and so is entirely irrelevant to this discussion.

Personally, I think that if a PDF of these came out, I would probably buy them and then not worry about getting an original copy. I'm curious to look them over but not for $500+ each. I do often wonder how long these items can retain the values that they are currently at. With the Wee Warriors stuff, I think there are a few hardcore collectors that really keep this market afloat. Same thing goes for the nonTSR market as well. A half dozen people keeping the prices up.


I agree. I think the affect on price will remain to be seen. But I have to say that a pdf of many of these old modules (potvq), or reprints of the more modern ones (OB3, ST1), would certainly satiate my demand for these items.

  


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:48 am 
 

Sea-to-sky-games wrote:This is not a valid argument. After all, aren't other people who are against reprints or pdfs causing us to lose money by artificially keeping prices high? The argument can work both ways and so is entirely irrelevant to this discussion.


Ahh, your friendly neighborhood resident economist troll comes crawling out from underneath his bridge to participate in this discussion. :roll:   Thanks for invalidating my argument, I am sure that you are correct as always believe that you are.  :roll:   I am begging you to prove that some how the market is artificially inflated and if it is overly inflated how exactly that is causing someone who doesn't own one to lose money. Please show me with something other than you not so bright know-it-all opinion and please provide proof as your assesment of my argument may be the most assanine thing that I have read in a long time.  Seriously, do you even read what the hell you write???

Sea-to-sky-games wrote:
I agree. I think the affect on price will remain to be seen. But I have to say that a pdf of many of these old modules (potvq), or reprints of the more modern ones (OB3, ST1), would certainly satiate my demand for these items.


Funny how you contradict your own argument that you posted for me in the exact same post and if you can't see that you did you are even dumber that I thought you were.  Seriously, don't you have something better to do that troll this forum again.  I must have missed the thread on here were people were lamenting your absence and while you are out there digging for proof of an "inflated market" that doesn't exist, perhaps you can point that out to me as well.  

You know I hear danteisevil and Cougarrinard are both short on friends, why don't you go post on their boards.


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Last edited by bclarkie on Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
  

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Post Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:58 am 
 

Sea-to-sky-games wrote:This is not a valid argument. After all, aren't other people who are against reprints or pdfs causing us to lose money by artificially keeping prices high? The argument can work both ways and so is entirely irrelevant to this discussion.


Why is this not a valid argument and why is it irrelevant to the discussion?  If you read the first post you will notice the following discussion topics:

What I am interested in, is what do people think about this ?
Is there good or bad reason for trying to make this happen ?
Are there concerns people have?


Apparently this is a concern for Brian and possibly others.  I dont see how his argument is irrelevant.  What I do see is you posting something that is designed to do one thing and one thing only...provoke a negative response.  And you wonder why so many people on this forum think you are an asshat.  :?


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