Traveller wrote:Let's see...I signed up for a membership here in what...2004? I've been a part of the site for three years now. I've had a good time in the various discussions I've participated in. All despite the fact that I don't own, and likely never will own original copies of Palace of the Vampire Queen, Starstone, ST1, Lost Tamochan, Lost Caverns of Tsojconth, and others. In fact, of these various rarities, I've only seen one: the orange covered Palace of the Silver Princess. The only reason I've seen the original Palace of the Silver Princess is because WotC/Hasbro released a PDF of it for free, I downloaded it, and printed it on my printer.Now, did orange B3's suddenly become worthless because the PDF was released? Am I suddenly an evil monster because I happen to own a legitimate copy of that B3 PDF that I couldn't realistically afford? Now, that last question is a rhetorical one, and there's no need to answer it, but the same questions can be asked of any legal PDF that is available out in Internet land. I do seem to recall a devaluation in the collecting value of that particular item, however, that particular module is still rather highly prized despite the devaluation.I understand what you're saying in this case of PotV and the majority of the other "keys". Because it was typed out on either a manual typewriter or an IBM Selectric, it's easily copied and easily distributed, and as a result, counterfeits can be easily confused with genuine copies. Despite that legitimate concern, I still would be interested in free and legal PDFs of Palace of the Vampire Queen, Starstone, ST1, Lost Tamochan, Lost Caverns of Tsojconth, and others. To me at least, the historical value of the documents in question is still as great as if I had owned genuine printed copies.Case in point, a genealogy website in England offered for one week unlimited access to image copies of the HMS Titanic passenger manifest. With effort, the manifest could be copied and easily confused with genuine copies. However, while a legitimate concern, the genealogy website offered copies of the pages anyway, because I believe that to them, the historical value of the document remained regardless of whether it was an original or a copy.The same thing, but on a much smaller scale, applies to the various "keys" of RPG history. Their historical value will always be there, even if the collecting value dies out. From what I see though, this isn't so much about protecting the original documents as it is about maintaining the collecting value of said original documents. A concern that from what I recall, is unfounded, if the WotC/Hasbro release of the original B3 is any indicator.
bclarkie wrote:Because of the lack of mystery to it, it makes it to me less valuable and interesting as I now already know whats in it. That I am sorry to say is the 100% truth and I suspect its the same for a lot of people.
bclarkie wrote:I kind of find it interesting that you acknowledge that a pdf is likely to devalue an original and yet you still are okay with that.
Traveller wrote:Why are you so adamant about keeping the value so high?Why does it surprise you that I'm ok with a PDF devaluing an original copy?You are, to the best of my knowledge, first and foremost a collector. You actively seek out things to fill the holes in your collection. Although you do play, playing is not the primary motivator for you. Is that accurate?I am a player. With few exceptions, I buy things I like because I either want to read them, play them, or swipe useful stuff from them. At the same time, I also have developed a bit of a historical interest in how Dungeons & Dragons developed from the original three books into the AD&D that many of us played in the 80s. To me, when it came to developing an general idea of how the OD&D rules developed into AD&D, hardcopy or PDF made no difference to me when it came to doing the research. Monetary value? Meh...it's more fun playing this stuff than watching it gather dust on a high shelf.Since my priorities differ from yours (player over collector), it doesn't surprise me that you're surprised at my statement.
brute wrote:I would buy a reprint of POTVQ if the original author (and possibly the original artists) were involved. Not interested in pdf of a rare, from a collector's view.
gyg wrote:Lastly - Shady Dealer - Badmike has vouched for you, and I think in these forums that counts (rightly) for a great deal, however, I do have points to make.1-On another thread I pointed out your ebay about me page - if you really want acceptance here then frankly your attitude to these forums sucks. It might be just my perception of it but I don't think you come across well.
gyg wrote:2-The name - it may be a joke but some here take shady dealer issues very seriously, and a handful, who need not be named Wink have worked damned hard to make the community at large aware of them, and try and stop their nefarious dealings - I for one am glad they do, so for me the joke isn't funny.
gyg wrote:3-If, as Badmike says you are a stand up guy with the interests of our hobby at heart then I am right behind you - anyone willing to put efforts in on my behalf(!) is okay by me, I just need to see the evidence. FWIW I think that the efforts you are making with the Wee Warriors thing are worthy and valid and I wish you luck with them.I don't mean to come accross as a dick but I feel that you got off on the wrong foot - I hope that you continue to post here in a positive and decent way. I will certainly wouldn't hold a bad start against you, as this forum can be quite caustic to new posters I'm afraid.I wish you well with this project and hope you become a long term contributer to these forums.
bclarkie wrote:My point is that of course you don't give a rats ass if PotVQ loses value, you have nothing invested in it. I would very surprised however if you invested $1,000 in one and still felt the same way or even if you came into one by accident cheaply and still felt that way, as then you would actually have something to lose in this. As I noted before, its always easier spending and losing someone else's money than it is your own. It's easy to write off someone else's loss as you don't have to live with it.
...This guy is an asshat...
ShadyDealer wrote:Yes, this is a great idea. I was leaning toward a more digital approach, but a physical clear overlay with a light stencil to represent a watermark of sorts would be harder to remove for sure.
Traveller wrote:Since my priorities differ from yours (player over collector), it doesn't surprise me that you're surprised at my statement.
deimos3428 wrote:I'd do both, if possible, to thoroughly eliminate easy counterfeiting. Alternatively, if you're just interested in letting people get the content and aren't too concerned about nostalgia -- why not create an entirely reformatted and different printing?
As I noted before, its always easier spending and losing someone else's money than it is your own. It's easy to write off someone else's loss as you don't have to live with it.
Personally, I think that if a PDF of these came out, I would probably buy them and then not worry about getting an original copy. I'm curious to look them over but not for $500+ each. I do often wonder how long these items can retain the values that they are currently at. With the Wee Warriors stuff, I think there are a few hardcore collectors that really keep this market afloat. Same thing goes for the nonTSR market as well. A half dozen people keeping the prices up.
