Xaxaxe wrote:An "item not as described" case can be difficult to win, as things can obviously degenerate pretty quickly into a he-said, she-said sort of situation. But it's certainly worth at least opening a dispute, as this forces some sort of official response from the other party. If no response is forthcoming (and I've actually seen this happen), then it's the buyer who automatically wins the dispute.

It is worth opening a dispute but what you have described here is trying to work out the dispute between the two interested parties or where one party does not respond the the other party wins by default.  If the dispute is escalated to a claim where Paypal has to deal with it, you are very likely not too see any compensation.

In this particular case, I'm not too optimistic, but I'd still open the dispute.

Why are you not optimisitic?  For someone who has a 100% record in such paypal disputes I don't understand the pessimism.  I have had 5 disputes that have been escaled to paypal claims of which only 1 has been resolved in my favour.

i quite agree

it's escalated to claim level, and let the cards fall where they may.

on my part - a good (?) learning experience.

I truly don't care. Maybe it will be enough to get this thread killed.

Also, as I was just directly called a "fucking asslicking dickhead" on another thread, I felt I was owed at least one F-bomb.  

Xaxaxe wrote:
A gross over-statement. And one that's been repeated enough times (including here) that many people are taking it as gospel truth.

An "item not as described" case can be difficult to win, as things can obviously degenerate pretty quickly into a he-said, she-said sort of situation. But it's certainly worth at least opening a dispute, as this forces some sort of official response from the other party. If no response is forthcoming (and I've actually seen this happen), then it's the buyer who automatically wins the dispute.

In this particular case, I'm not too optimistic, but I'd still open the dispute. The problem is that the seller is a known liar and thief who will do or say anything to put an extra dollar in his pocket. So Cougie will obviously just deny, deny, deny. If I were the buyer here, though, I'd be pointing directly at the stock photo, as eBay has some specific rules regarding this. Clearly, the item was misrepresented.

+++++

For the record, I just checked my PayPal dispute-resolution history. Of my last four cases, two were complaints I filed as a buyer for misrepresented items. I won both disputes.

For the record, I won a dispute over items "not as described" as a buyer several years ago.  However, as a caveat, the seller never responded to the accusations so I won "by default" and paypal refunded the money after about 30 days. I don't know how things would have gone had he decided to fight it.  

 The items were a stack of magazines advertised as "near mint, unread" that came to me in "poor, used to wipe an ass" condition.  Still the most misrepresented items I have ever purchased on ebay.....



Mike B.

Wow X.  I think if anyone has woken up in a foul mood it is clearly you.  I may not have been as courteous as maybe I could have been but I do find it pretty surprising that someone here who has been a member for over 2 years, decides to buy from the Coug and is then surprised that there is a large handling charge and the items are not as described.  Then starts a new thread to discuss it when there is one 2 threads down that is 33 pages long discussing the exact same stuff.  I was blunt as to what his options really are and you even seem to agree with me.  

As far as paypal policy goes, I would be more than happy to know how you end up getting a 100% resolution satisfaction from Paypal.  I find this absolutely amazing considering the paypal and ebay are part of the same company.  Do you also get 100% satisfaction from Ebay customer service?  That would also blow my mind.

I think it might be better if you decided to check what protection buyers/sellers are covered for through paypal.  It is very clear that if a package goes missing and the seller has proof of shipping by a method acceptable to Paypal then the buyer is out of luck.  Similarly if the auction contains the magic words AS IS or condition is poorly described then significant misrepresentation of condition does not apply since there is no such description given.  Ebay allows stock photos and does not require sellers to even state that it is a stock photo (except in the special case of that phone thing).

What you seem to be describing profusely is that you can negotiate with the other party to get some resolution - this really has nothing to do with paypal or their policy aside from the fact that they offer you a venue to discuss it with the other party.  If a buyer files a claim and the other party does not wish to participate then no proof of shipping is provided and the buyer wins.  If the seller has bought the shipping through paypal, they may not even need to respond to win.

I think it is safe to say that all of this applies to any case with Coug.
* Is he  happy to negotiate a reasonable settlement? NO.
* Will he return any of your money? NO.
* Will he fail to provided proof that he sent the package?  NO.
* Do his auctions clearly describe the condition of the item? NO.

So fine, open a paypal dispute and claim it has been misrepresented because it doesn't match the stock photo provided, etc.  I have been through 5 such cases with this claim to paypal and PAYPAL has sided with the seller 4 of 5 times.  However, if from your 100% record in such circumstances, I would greatly appreciate knowing how you get paypal to side with you so often.

c'mon guys, lets stop fighting ok. it achieves nothing. lets all chill out and actually help things get sorted out. isnt that the main thing?

its nice to see things happening productively, so cmon guys.

Al

sounds fair enough to me.

Xaxaxe wrote:* As a buyer, I've filed claims of misrepresentation three times, according to my PayPal history.

Wait! It's actually four times ... and the fourth one is a doozy. It's actually a great story that might lighten the mood a bit. I'll type it up as quick as I can ...

I filed paypal disputes 4 times as well and was refunded 3 times.  All three went through the whole process and I ended up getting the cash back about 30 days after filing, two were for non-delivery and one for misrepresented item.

The one I did not get my money back requried me to send back the item at my cost and then a decision would be made.  In this case I could not trust the process and just kept the damaged item.

So there you have it.  I only wish I could just do a charge back but most of my collecting is funded through my Ebay store so everthing is paid with my paypal balence.