The New cougarrinard
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Post Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:50 am 
 

This seller had some things I really wanted, and the prices looked OK.  In fact after the auction they were very fair.

Problem 1:  S&H was double the actual postage costs on the packages  ( I asked the seller to reconfirm before paying ).

Problem 2: out of 11 items two were not the ones in the pictures.  Fortunately I didn't have one of them.  So only one duplicate to worry about.


Gary H. Kramer

  


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Post Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:07 pm 
 

here's what came in to my mail box concerning the fact that picture did not represent the item:

its not wrong, the pictures are not of the item, they are stock, i sell 500+ items a week, each week every week,, i dont have time tio individually scan each 7 every item I'd mbe there all motnh doing one weeks worth
i use ebay turbo lister software,  i only use actal pictures where the items are significantly differant or differant edition, item completely, I curently have 5,500 item in my TL inventory, most are several diffeant conditions, editions printings for each item.

so please dont say I have gotten anything wrong, its right, with the time I have to do it in.   

the items will nevger match the picture exactly so your wasgting you time if your comparing.   i use pictures if the item when I set up the TL programe, some  5 years ago.

--dave


Gary H. Kramer

  

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Post Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:15 pm 
 

An auction link would be helpful.

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Post Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:20 pm 
 


** expired eBay auction **




and




** expired eBay auction **




neither picture corresponds to what was recieved.


Gary H. Kramer

  

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Post Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:27 pm 
 

Was it the condition that did not correspond with what he had listed in the auctions? Both appear to be "NM" stock photos of both items.

Very Good Condition + (which I am assuming he meant by VGC+) can be pretty subjective. Very good to some people I've bought from means lots of wear but complete, while "excellent" to them means in great shape. I know I normally use "very good" to describe something that's a 6 or 6.5 on a scale of 1 to 10 - but then again, I try to describe all of an item's flaws, too.


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Post Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:28 pm 
 

Ah, you mean the old coug.  No surprises here.  You may want to look through the other coug thread that is up to 33 pages or so.  Its filled with stuff like this.  Large handling fees and item not as pictured is typical.  I think you are lucky that you got the map book for Temple.  Typically if it was just listed as Temple of Elemental Evil you wouldn't get it.

It amazes me that you decided to give him a try.  You've been a member here for 2 years and his threads have been abundant - I don't really see the need to start this new thread either.  Don't expect any compensation.  The prices are typically low on his auctions because most buyers that know better won't deal with him.  I see you have already left positive feedback for these auctions so there isn't anything you can really do about it.

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Post Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:37 pm 
 

I'm confused. You're upset enough about the transaction to post details here, yet you've already left him positive feedback?



http://feedback.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dl ... 0125340881



:?  :?



Well, skipping over that for a minute, it goes without saying that Cougie is trying to bully you and confuse the issue. It is not the buyer's responsibility to make sure the seller gets the item right, of course, it is the seller's.



I'd go straight to PayPal, open a dispute, and check the box labeled (paraphrasing) "incorrect item or item misrepresented." That begins the dispute process, throws the ball back in Cougie's court, and makes any reponse he posts part of an official record.



+++++



Soapbox time: I can't believe anyone here would actually deal with Cougar, though. Is it just to try to save a couple of bucks? There's a good reason his prices are so low lately: hundreds of collectors are ignoring his listings.



Acaeum members, if you want to deal with CougarRinard, you get exactly what you pay for and the level of service you deserve.



+++++



I don't understand this thread's title, either. What is so "new" about this?

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Post Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:48 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:I'd go straight to PayPal, open a dispute, and check the box labeled (paraphrasing) "incorrect item or item misrepresented." That begins the dispute process, throws the ball back in Cougie's court, and makes any reponse he posts part of an official record.




Paypal won't do anything about it.  As far as they are concerned a package was shipped and received and that's all they care about.  If there is a problem with the items then you need to go through ebay.

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Post Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:51 pm 
 

OK so lesson learned!

I suppose I thought that it wasn't the same rip-off artist as he'd changed his name.  silly me!

and yes, I've already opened up a dispute.

in answering the qustion about condition.  Yes, both the condition and item did not match the description or picture.  Its mostly the picture I'm annoyed about.

And about the feed back.  Silly me again.  I did that before I started adding things to the database.  Shan't do that again.  Think I'd know better after collectiong 672 items (and counting).

Anyway, I'm not looking for sympathy - my own fault.


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Post Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:57 pm 
 

Honestly, I think you are out of luck on getting any kind of compensation on this.  Stock photos whether you like it or not are part of Ebay.  VGC is such a generic statement on condition that it can range from poor to mint.  The feedback exchange indicates to Ebay that everything smoothly (not that they would do anything in the first place).

You are pretty much left with a lesson learned on this one.

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Post Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:03 pm 
 

Mars wrote:Paypal won't do anything about it.

Sorry, but that's just not true. I've had great success with their "Dispute Resolution" process, both as a buyer and a seller. Either the problem has been fixed or I've gotten my money back every single time ... although, granted, it can be a long process. Much longer than it needs to be.

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Post Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:13 pm 
 

Oh, heck. I didn't even notice you'd left feedback for the two auctions.

If I would have seen that, I would simply have said that you win some and lose some, but apparently you've lost.

Why on earth did you bid on cougie's stuff anyway???


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Post Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:18 pm 
 

Switching gears for a second, here's something I find pretty interesting from a collector's standpoint:

A 7,000-plus Diamond-Encrusted Powerseller posts a listing for a very popular item, uses a stock photo of said item in much better condition than it usually is (not to mention the one he's actually selling) ... and still only gets 20 bucks for it? 8O

Cougar is doomed. The word is getting out there, both through the Acaeum and through other grassroots sources: "Avoid Cougar." He's just bleeding money every single day he stays on eBay ...  :)

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Post Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:28 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:Sorry, but that's just not true. I've had great success with their "Dispute Resolution" process, both as a buyer and a seller. Either the problem has been fixed or I've gotten my money back every single time ... although, granted, it can be a long process. Much longer than it needs to be.


Really?  I find that difficult to believe.  In a dispute between a buyer and seller, all a seller has to do is prove that they sent the package and paypal is satisfied.  If the seller proves this, and the buyer doesn't get the package, Paypal will not refund the buyer anything.  Also, paypal has even started going after people who do a chargeback on their credit card for such instances.

You can open a dispute and come to some arrangement with the other party involved through paypal and that often gets resolved but paypal only really cares that the package was sent out.  I guess you can make a claim that it is significantly different from what is described but I think that is very difficult to prove and if the seller has any sort of AS IS statement then you are out of luck.

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Post Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:39 pm 
 

Doesn't matter if he's bleeding money. He'll stay on eBay just so he can laugh at people who oppose him.

Besides, he can always sell two of his three houses when the budget gets too tight.

:)


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Post Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:45 pm 
 

Mars wrote:
Really?  I find that difficult to believe.  In a dispute between a buyer and seller, all a seller has to do is prove that they sent the package and paypal is satisfied.


Perhaps for item not received, but what happens if you choose the option marked "I received my item, but it was significantly different than the seller's description." when opening the dispute?

(I don't know myself, as I've only ever had to deal with items not received.)

  


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Post Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:53 pm 
 

Mars wrote:Really?  I find that difficult to believe.

I'm not sure why.

Mars wrote:In a dispute between a buyer and seller, all a seller has to do is prove that they sent the package and paypal is satisfied.

A gross over-statement. And one that's been repeated enough times (including here) that many people are taking it as gospel truth.

An "item not as described" case can be difficult to win, as things can obviously degenerate pretty quickly into a he-said, she-said sort of situation. But it's certainly worth at least opening a dispute, as this forces some sort of official response from the other party. If no response is forthcoming (and I've actually seen this happen), then it's the buyer who automatically wins the dispute.

In this particular case, I'm not too optimistic, but I'd still open the dispute. The problem is that the seller is a known liar and thief who will do or say anything to put an extra dollar in his pocket. So Cougie will obviously just deny, deny, deny. If I were the buyer here, though, I'd be pointing directly at the stock photo, as eBay has some specific rules regarding this. Clearly, the item was misrepresented.

+++++

For the record, I just checked my PayPal dispute-resolution history. Of my last four cases, two were complaints I filed as a buyer for misrepresented items. I won both disputes.

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Post Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:55 pm 
 

g026r wrote:Perhaps for item not received, but what happens if you choose the option marked "I received my item, but it was significantly different than the seller's description." when opening the dispute?


As standard practice, Coug normally has some kind of AS IS statement so any disputes as significantly not described will generally be dismissed.

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Post Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:02 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:An "item not as described" case can be difficult to win, as things can obviously degenerate pretty quickly into a he-said, she-said sort of situation. But it's certainly worth at least opening a dispute, as this forces some sort of official response from the other party. If no response is forthcoming (and I've actually seen this happen), then it's the buyer who automatically wins the dispute.


It is worth opening a dispute but what you have described here is trying to work out the dispute between the two interested parties or where one party does not respond the the other party wins by default.  If the dispute is escalated to a claim where Paypal has to deal with it, you are very likely not too see any compensation.

In this particular case, I'm not too optimistic, but I'd still open the dispute.


Why are you not optimisitic?  For someone who has a 100% record in such paypal disputes I don't understand the pessimism.  I have had 5 disputes that have been escaled to paypal claims of which only 1 has been resolved in my favour.

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Post Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:31 pm 
 

Mars wrote:Why are you not optimisitic?  For someone who has a 100% record in such paypal disputes I don't understand the pessimism.

Because it's Cougar; I thought I was clear about that. But if you want to go a few rounds, I'm totally up for that ...

The sellers I have dealt with have tended to be more reasonable. They might not have been happy in every case, but they at least participated in the process. And "item misrepresented" cases are the definite minority of the cases I have had over the years; most of my disputes have revolved around items not received — much easier to prove and to gain some sort of resolution.

Clearly you think I'm lying about my eBay/PayPal dispute record, but there's nothing I can do about that (other than to say "bite me," of course). But it's just as clear that you need to actually review the policy pages at both eBay and PayPal; just repeating the mantra of "all a seller has to do is show proof of delivery" shows a real ignorance of how the process works.

(Oh, and speaking of which, you're also posting some misleading information about the fact that feedback has been left in this case. Feedback gets left in error all the time (especially with the powersellers who just use totally automated feedback-leaving scripts); it's possible to win an eBay/PayPal dispute regardless of the type of feedback left. Leaving feedback might not help a case, but it's not a deal-killer, either)

+++++

This whole thing is ridiculous.

*We've got an Acaeum member who should have known better complaining about items he already left feedback for.

*And then we've got an Acaeum member — this would be you, Mars — who clearly woke up in a foul mood today and is taking it out on his keyboard (do a search for everything you've posted today if you think that's being unfair).

*And then we've got an Acaeum member — this would be me — who is too stupid to avoid being sucked into these sorts of pissing contests.

I stand by my advice, if anyone is still even reading this stupid thread: file a dispute. Other than that, I've stopped caring. This entire episode is completely fucking absurd.

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