Xaxaxe wrote:And let's not forget that every single initiative that WotC has launched, barring one, has resulted in failure (often in spectacular fashion).

Thanks for explaining it in a way that true roleplayers can understand -- they lost initiative.  Again.  

FormCritic wrote:Actually, you're also paying the price for Pokemon.

Sure, but I find Magic much more galling. That was a WotC product that, I swear to all that is holy, struck gold more due its timing than its greatness as a game. I honestly think a lot of RGPers and general gamers were just bored silly with D&D and the other options available in 1994.

Anyway, don't get me started on that ...  

Pokemon, while putting a lot of money in Wizards' pockets, was not their design; it was an extremely successful Japanese game long before it ever hit these shores. All Wizards had to do was not mess up a free lunch.

I still say that WotC has not launched a single successful property since Magic:TG. But I can name 15 failures off the top of my head.

Oh, and ... uh ... let's see ... Gleemax sucks!  

** expired/removed eBay auction **




everyone should have one! (seemingly wotc don't )

Blackmoor wrote:
I do not want to mess up a great WotC (Hasbo) bashing but they have released some very successful games.  D&D mini's for one, Star Wars mini's for another and the new Avalon Hill Board games are very popular as well.

Let us remember that they saved the D&D brand from insolvency, carried on with Gencon, kept publishing Dungeon and Dragon for a few years, pulled ASL out of the gutter and probably a few other things as well.  Not all things are negative about them

Gleemax is still a very stupid idea so far

All true, but I have a feeling that the gamers at WotC are marginalized in favor of the folks with the marketing degrees. TSR, for all its faults, was run by gamers, which, while not good from a business aspect, ensured that their products were actually useful for the game.

I guess what they really need is the balance between the two.

See, I knew somebody would have to defend them.  That's just the way these things go, there's always at least one person out there willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.  I'll handle the opposite argument, and get the thread back on track.  

Blackmoor wrote:D&D mini's for one, Star Wars mini's for another and the new Avalon Hill Board games are very popular as well.

Yep.  Cheap plastic minis.  Lots and lots of them.  If you think that's a good thing, "you're entitled to your opinion".

Blackmoor wrote:Let us remember that they saved the D&D brand from insolvency

...and then used the brand for their own nefarious purposes, none of which were related to Dungeons & Dragons.  In short, they saved nothing.

Blackmoor wrote:carried on with Gencon

Ok, credit where credit is due.  GenCON is widely recognized as a good thing.  However, I'd imagine it's littered with a lot more sub-par heavily-marketed crap than it used to be.  I'm not interested in confirming that hypothesis.

Blackmoor wrote: kept publishing Dungeon and Dragon for a few years

...except that they only retained the name and had very little of use or to do with D&D in them.  And now, they're gone entirely, in an unceremonial and irreverent fashion.  I wouldn't wish their fate on anyone.

So in short, with the minor exception of Gencon, everything about that company is completely negative.  Ok, Gleemax isn't negative, just stupid.

When I stopped by my local game store recently I asked one of the people who worked there (who has some industry insider contacts) what was up with D&D 4th edition.

While he could not tell me all that was coming down the pipe, he stated that it was going to be announced at GenCon this year and that WotC was going to bring it back 'in-house' again.

The were going to set the format the same as their Star Wars RPG and effectively 'kill' the OGL.

Guys, I've just got back into RPG after about 12 years. Is there a list somewhere on the site that would reveal the mysteries of all the damn acronyms that everyone, bar myself, appears to be fluent with? I'm sure if I trawled the 80 odd thousand postings here I'd get a picture of what's been going on in the community over the last decade - but saving that, could someone sum it up in a couple of paragraphs?

Thanks Serleran

Gleemax sure didn't last long I thought it sounded like a decent concept. WOTC has had a lot of OK-Good concepts since they came along but lately they have failed miserably. It's almost as bad as TSR during those last years... WOTC still making bank from MTG is all that keeps them from being in the 1994-5-6... TSR "doomed" "writing is on the wall baby" "were f____ed" classification.

4E D&D looks terrible. I have no idea if the game plays well but those books are a disaster as far as the artwork appeal imo. I was sold on the art in the late 70's early 80's as a kid. Elmore, Parkinson, Easley, Caldwell, insert your favorite artist here, sold a crapload of books, good and bad. I can't imagine anybody looking at one of those covers now and having any sense of wonder or interest.

Magic Online is a disaster... It looks crappier than the new D&D books (literally, it's an eyesore). Online card value is down big time.

MTG is the only thing they have (that makes bank) and they're cutting a lot of the "event" type of releases. I personally feel like Magic has lost the Magic. I was into this game in a big way when it came along and have been playing less and less until now I have 0 desire.

Seeing the rise and fall of TSR as an enthusiast/ customer/gamer has me feeling that the same decline is happening to WOTC right now. I think it's possible end is closer than anybody "objective" might think. Hasbro seemingly makes it impossible for them to go bankrupt or anything (unless Hasbro ever does) but I think WOTC or whatever is left of that original dynamic game company will be dissolved in the very near future.
My 2 cents