Let's Kill all the 4th print DMGs...
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Poll: Would you sacrifce a 4th print 1st Ed DMG for research?

Hell no, it's like defacing the Mona Lisa 4%       4%  [ 2 ]
Hell yes, there are too many of the damn things already 15%       15%  [ 7 ]
Why are we killing the poor innocent books anyway? 25%       25%  [ 12 ]
What kind of sick demented freak tears up a DMG? 33%       33%  [ 16 ]
In the name of science, here is my 4th print DMG! 23%       23%  [ 11 ]
Total votes : 48

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Post Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 7:13 pm 
 

PM-Knight wrote:
Deimos,

I have a fair 4th print DMG that I would be willing to send you, but the spine "edges" have separated from the book itself. The actual back spine is still there, but is somewhat "unattached" as well. In fact, I can see the stitching and the two staples, but no evidence of yellow-orange paper. I will PM you to see if you want me to send you this poor, sick, and dying creature :( .

Hope this Helps,

It does indeed!  The very fact that it has staples (are you sure there aren't three, by the way?) would suggest it's been rebound.  I feel sort of silly that I hadn't thought to check for staples.  :oops:

Considering that the only printing in desperate need of being rebound at this point would be the "Third Alpha", and it adds weight to the theory that the current 4th is truly the "Third Gamma".  Still, the only way to tell for certain is to find bits of the original yellow endpapers.

More importantly, it's easier to find people willing to check their copies for the existence of staples.  If several 4th-owners can run a bar magnet over their spines (or whatever) and confirm their presence, that'd be useful.

 YIM  

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Post Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 7:48 pm 
 

deimos3428 wrote:It does indeed!  The very fact that it has staples (are you sure there aren't three, by the way?) would suggest it's been rebound.  I feel sort of silly that I hadn't thought to check for staples.  :oops:


Definitely only two staples, one at the top & one at the bottom. In addition, there is a rough, almost fabric or gauze-like material on the inside of the spine that the staples and stitching go through.

I also have a VF 4th print (not willing to sacrifice), but it has a piece of thread (binding) that is underneath the inside of the back cover. It runs from the middle of the spine to the very edge of the pasted inside endpaper. Not sure if that helps lend any more clues to your investigation :wink:

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Post Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 5:46 pm 
 

Is the trivial amount of information you get from destroying multiple DMG's more important than new players (or even old players) being able to more easily acquire a DMG?

It seems a bit frivolous, but no one's going to stop you. And you have every right.

But purposeful destruction of a book, no matter what book, seems wrong. It's like throwing trash on a beach or chopping down a rare tree in the forest. At least the tree might grow back. A tragedy of the commons.

  


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Post Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 9:57 pm 
 

Brickman wrote:Is the trivial amount of information you get from destroying multiple DMG's more important than new players (or even old players) being able to more easily acquire a DMG?

I would agree, if the DMG in general or this printing in particular were even remotely difficult to acquire.  That's not the case.  I've also made it abundantly clear that I'm looking for damaged copies -- ones that people are more than likely to throw out.

Whether you feel this type of information is 'trivial' or not largely depends on how much interest you place in an accurate printing chronology.  I don't think it's trivial at all.

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Post Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 10:09 pm 
 

Brickman wrote:It's like throwing trash on a beach or chopping down a rare tree in the forest.

Um ... actually, it's not like that at all.  :?  :roll:

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Post Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 11:31 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:Um ... actually, it's not like that at all.  :?  :roll:


Actually it's akin to killing puppies, damned cute ones at that :D


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Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 11:08 am 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:Um ... actually, it's not like that at all.  :?  :roll:


So if there were 500,000 of a particular tree left -- there are enough to chop down still. Ah. I get it.

  


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Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 11:13 am 
 

deimos3428 wrote:I would agree, if the DMG in general or this printing in particular were even remotely difficult to acquire.  That's not the case.  I've also made it abundantly clear that I'm looking for damaged copies -- ones that people are more than likely to throw out.

Whether you feel this type of information is 'trivial' or not largely depends on how much interest you place in an accurate printing chronology.  I don't think it's trivial at all.


Sorry if I didn't get the damaged part. Deimos, out of curiosity, after your investigation into a particular DMG would there be any chance you could slap some cloth and glue back onto the spine and affix it back into the cover? Sort of 'fix it up' ? Donate or sell them back? Or are you just out to crack some eggs?

  


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Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 11:58 am 
 

You gotta crack a few eggs to make lemonade...


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Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 12:07 pm 
 

bombadil wrote:You gotta crack a few eggs to make lemonade...


Mmmmm...add some butter to your "lemonade" and you'll have a nice Hollandaise sauce!   :P


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Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 1:04 pm 
 

Edit: Nevermind. Point already made. Next subject, please ...


Last edited by Xaxaxe on Tue May 15, 2007 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 1:55 pm 
 

Brickman wrote:Sorry if I didn't get the damaged part. Deimos, out of curiosity, after your investigation into a particular DMG would there be any chance you could slap some cloth and glue back onto the spine and affix it back into the cover? Sort of 'fix it up' ? Donate or sell them back? Or are you just out to crack some eggs?

If I thought anybody could use them, yes.  I imagine that's highly unlikely.  I don't think anybody would be willing to pay the cost of postage after they've been so repaired, but if there's interest, I'll offer them to the community.  Also, I'm not skilled in the art of book restoration, so it'll be an amateur job.  

I'll even autograph them if you like.  :wink:

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Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 3:19 pm 
 

deimos3428 wrote:If I thought anybody could use them, yes.  I imagine that's highly unlikely.  I don't think anybody would be willing to pay the cost of postage after they've been so repaired, but if there's interest, I'll offer them to the community.  Also, I'm not skilled in the art of book restoration, so it'll be an amateur job.  

I'll even autograph them if you like.  :wink:


There must be thousands of 1st edition DMGs still floating around...Deimos could feed every copy he ever found to his pet goat, and it wouldn't dent the world supply at all. I still see shelves full of these things whenever I shop at Half Price Books.  There are probably three of these to everyone still playing 1st edition out there...

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Post Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 7:36 pm 
 

deimos3428 wrote:If I thought anybody could use them, yes.  I imagine that's highly unlikely.  I don't think anybody would be willing to pay the cost of postage after they've been so repaired, but if there's interest, I'll offer them to the community.  Also, I'm not skilled in the art of book restoration, so it'll be an amateur job.  

I'll even autograph them if you like.  :wink:


I'll buy it back for postage. Would be cool if you taped in some custom pages, and scribbled in your opinions profusely.

Cheers!

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Post Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 8:10 am 
 

deimos3428 wrote:Also, I'm not skilled in the art of book restoration, so it'll be an amateur job.  

I'll even autograph them if you like.  :wink:

Mark them "Test Subject xxx, Experiment yyy" so they can be tracked once they are released into the wild.  :)

  

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:06 pm 
 

Deimos - when you're done you can still selling the scraps bit by bit - like this chap is tring to do :D



http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AD-D-Dungeons-Dra ... dZViewItem


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:59 am 
 

gyg wrote:Deimos - when you're done you can still selling the scraps bit by bit - like this chap is tring to do :D


** expired eBay auction **


8O The man's a genius, I tell ya. 8O



I suppose the project is due for an update, for those curious:



Prep:  I obtained one suitable subject and dissected it carefully over a large sheet of white paper (to catch anything that might fall out -- and there was a lot!.)  Deconstruction was fairly simple and neat, as the spine had already taken some heavy wear.



Method:  Despite this, the stitching was still very solid and I de-looped the stitches one-by-one, very carefully.  These books don't go down without a fight, it took perhaps two hours to completely take it apart.  There were also two staples which were extracted, made of some ferrous metal.  (These were much smaller than those found in the rebound 2nd.)



Conclusions:  I was rather disappointed in that I can't conclusively state anything.  Considering that I'm looking for something that might not exist at all, it's not all that unusual that I didn't find it -- but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.



I did learn that one of the previous owners had an orange cat.  A lot of "debris" came out, but nothing resembling yellow end-paper bits.  A few interesting fragments and fibers of undetermined origin, and a lot of dust and hair.  I learned a lot about the book-binding process, as well.



Further Analysis:  I intend on obtaining a small microscope and analyzing the fragments I did recover, to see what leads that might provide.  I'd also like to take a look at the stitching itself.  There appears to be several strands of fiber unrelated to the stitching.  The stitching itself went through the endpapers neatly, (unlike on the rebound 2nd beta? where it dodges them entirely) and it's difficult to ascertain if it might have gone through the pages themselves twice, as would have to occur with a rebinding.  (The holes looked slightly larger than those through the endpapers, but not much.)



A lot of measurement remains to be taken for reference, when I can find the time.  I regret not taking photos throughout the process, something I'll remember for the next subject.  I feel at this point, less subjects will be required to abandon the theory.  Perhaps 2-5 more.

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Post Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:15 pm 
 

Ooooo good luck! I'd get a book for the postage but postage to the uk would be a lot wouldn't it? still. PHOTOS!


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