Shady Dealers
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Post Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:30 pm 
 

benjoshua wrote:This story is about to get very interesting.

Sounds like what Gnat and Deimos were saying --- she is an uninformed seller.  Not everyone invests energy in scanning or photographing items or even doing basic price research.

At least Benjoshua is a goodwill ambassador for the RPG community.  :)

  


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Post Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:40 am 
 

Hey Pips, how come you didn't tell us that she refunded you your money?


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Post Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:48 am 
 

TheMilford wrote:Hey Pips, how come you didn't tell us that she refunded you your money?


Good question :?


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Post Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:19 am 
 

TheMilford wrote:Hey Pips, how come you didn't tell us that she refunded you your money?

oh dear... well that just says it all, doesn't it...
how about we have a 'shady arsehole' collector thread so we can out 'shady arsehole' collectors...
I knew there was something about this guy, I just couldn't put my finger on it. What an arsehole...
strikes me that you're a snide, lying, jerk off piptroll. Never engage in conversation with me again!!!
where's bclarkie when you need him? :)


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Post Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:39 am 
 

It's difficult to be surprised really - I know Pipswich is clearly a clever and articulate chap but there is always a reason to edit many of your own posts.

To put a more positive, and OT spin, into the discussion

This is an email I got from a member here (who I will not embarass by naming). We've done a few deals over the years but this sums up what I believe is the true spirit of the Acaeum - the occasional idiot notwithstanding!

Hya Carl, this short message to let you know that a smallpacket is on the road for you! In a nutshell, i missed thecombined auctions (and won the 2nd best, of course): since iam not greatly interested in that and the seller is from UK,i though you could appreciate smtg from my side as a refundfor the continuous support you provide me with the UK-onlyauctions!...hope you'll enjoy the books!Pls, let me know when they arrives so that i can leave thefeedback to the seller!To you a great weekend


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Post Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:24 am 
 

Lol, you had a better experience with her than I did.  She can tell you anything she wants to and hopefully she will be more honest in the future.

But, enjoy your witch hunt and congratulations on capitalizing on the situation.  I hope you get great deals on what you buy from her and if she sells on ebay in the future, that she treats people well.  Smart move, btw, clarifying the packing.  Mine were shipped with no padding in a priority mail flat envelope so it was fortunate they were not damaged.

She did send an UNSOLICITED refund with a snarky comment "here ya go big spender."  I don't consider it relevant.  I neither asked for nor wanted the refund and certainly I did not appreciate the rude comment and I never got an apology for her error.  (Although I certainly won't return it since I don't expect to see the books I bought).

My respond was appropriate.  My last two messages follow.  I even thanked her for the refund I didn't ask for...

"Thank you for the refund. Unfortunately, I can never know the facts of this matter. Your photos are of first printings. I, and any collector, would have paid as much as $600 for the three books you pictured. So, although I suspect that you indeed made a very bad mistake and stole someones pictures to save time.... I can not know that another collector did not step in between the sale by paying a larger amount of money and swapping out the books I received. I would have paid $15 for the books I got, that was not the issue. The issue is, I don't know if after the sale fraud occurred. And, yes, people do that sort of thing. Please be aware that if you are going to lift pictures from others, you need to make sure you lift the exact item you are selling and in the same condition. It takes only a few minutes to take, crop and upload your own photo. picassa and photobucket are both free, I believe. I can't imagine you want bidders wondering if you are selling things twice."

And the next and last message to her.  (routine with me for negs or low dsr's)

"Since you are new, I am going to try to help. Your responses and snarky comment in paypal took your feedback from neutral to negative.

1. No remorse. You are sorry I am disappointed, not sorry that you stole photos, misrepresented the items and did not deliver what I bought. (your apparent claim)
2. You claim I should know from your note that they are old books that you did not use actual pictures. Unless you state stock photos or are otherwise explicit, I, nor any collector can know what you are doing.
3. "obviously they are old... not... encased in plastic." How is it relevant. That was not part of the description. The photos are.
4. The refund... states "Here you are big spender." Wow! After, either misrepresentation with stolen photos, or worse, a sale to another collector with substitution. you are unhappy with the buyer? Class act. I just want what I pay for. DSR's 1's for description and communication This won't happen if you take your pictures and avoid rudeness"

So, yes, interesting, lol.  

But, she made photo, description, listing AND communication errors.  And, we still don't know someone didn't manage to swap out the books.  The neg was well deserved and my response to her more than necessary and adequate.


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Post Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:53 am 
 

Oh, It dawned on me that the conspiracy theorists (and Pipswich bashers, lol) among you would be convinced the first email must have been outrageously rude.  It was certainly frank as I was not pleased and recognized the potential for a switch.  So, with this one posted, you have my entire emails to her about this matter. Enjoy!

First email (second and third/last in previous post).

"I am extremely upset that I did not receive the books in the photos in your auction. The greyhawk in your photo is a different printing and in better condition. The Swords and Spells that you sent is splattered, soiled and also a different printing. The Eldritch Wizardry is a different printing. NONE of the books that you sent me have the price on the bottom as is shown in your photographs. If someone convinced you to sell them the books that I bought then I want you to contact them to have them sent to me. In short, I want what I bought, not what I was sent."

Perhaps I read too much into the splattering, but it's hard not to notice it, or to comment on it in the listing.  Bad photos, bad description, bad packing, items worth significantly less than those illustrated and rude responses...  I promise will always get a negative reaction from me.  Whether the item is a buck or the price of a house, you can bet on it.


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Post Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:41 am 
 

:lol:  :roll:


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Post Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:52 am 
 

Not to stir the pot anymore about this but the seller has lied about where she got the pictures from.  They are not from Wiki which actually lists the print she sent:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyhawk_%28supplement%29

Instead she actually just took the image from The Acaeum.  If you look closely you can see the slight spine creases match.  The Acaeum page also lists pictures for the other printings (that would match her book) and pricing etc.

EDIT: The Eldritch Wizardry pic is also from The Acaeum and not from Wiki which lists this picture:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eldritch_Wizardry

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Post Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:58 am 
 

Pipswich wrote:Your photos are of first printings. I, and any collector, would have paid as much as $600 for the three books you pictured.


Seems to me this is more of a disservice to the collecting community than her behavior.  Such statements reinforce the bloated pricing practices of sellers like T&T and a few others.


Let mirth prevail!

  


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Post Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:34 pm 
 

bombadil wrote:
Seems to me this is more of a disservice to the collecting community than her behavior.  Such statements reinforce the bloated pricing practices of sellers like T&T and a few others.


Have any of the items other than Greyhawk 1st print sold for $200? Or even close to it? Just curious as the history on here doesn't support it.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:04 pm 
 

GreyM wrote:Have any of the items other than Greyhawk 1st print sold for $200? Or even close to it? Just curious as the history on here doesn't support it.


I wouldn't think so.  I would probably put values on the others in mint condition somewhere between $75-$100 at most.

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Post Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:07 pm 
 

Unless you're at the GenCon auction and want the same item as Stratochamp.  Then who knows how high the price will go.  :cry:


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Post Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:26 pm 
 

Rabbit_67 wrote:Unless you're at the GenCon auction and want the same item as Stratochamp.  Then who knows how high the price will go.  :cry:

QFT
:roll:


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Post Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:14 pm 
 

If the seller had wanted to rip you off she wouldn't have charged you $15 including shipping.

The fact is, she wasn't trying to hurt anyone and a few kind words could have resolved things...possibly very much in your favor.

Seethe all you want.  You didn't give the seller a proper chance to fix the problem and that makes you wrong.  

Then, you tried to burn her here and you got caught.

You look foolish for a reason.

We all make mistakes.  Learn from this one.


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Post Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:48 pm 
 

/shrug  Enjoy your opinion.

All I have to do is pay and leave appropriate feedback; I did both.

I will consider whether I post to the thread again.  

I mean, golly jee....

... are you are lined up to buy products from a seller who has the sophistication to find photos from multiple specialist sites, doesn't describe condition accurately, and has no idea how to price things.  

I would certainly recommend you stay under the $15 and free shipping price tags.  Cross your fingers; maybe you will get lucky!

I guess I was foolish...

assuming everyone here expects what is illustrated to arrive.
expecting sellers who blow it to apologize.
failing to anticipate other buyers here would stalk in for super deals.

I will know better next time.


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Post Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:07 am 
 

Pipswich wrote:/shrug  Enjoy your opinion.

I will know better next time.


OK, I finally read through this whole string on this auction.

I did not have to go very far to get the handle. Here is my take...

Pip ran across - or has a saved search set up for BINs - and hit this auction. He saw those pictures and that price and jumped as fast as he could hit the button. No way he was going to take the time to send a message to see if it was correct.

And why not take a second to check something that looks to good to be true? The opportunity to make a killing was way too high. How about some buyer beware - or as Pip suggests it is the seller's complete responsibility? I don't thnk so and I will get back to that.

So Pip has scored the auction with his quick fingers. But now he has the opportunity to ask the seller if the pictures are representative of the auction. Very easy to send a message saying "I just bought this auction, but on a second look I want to make sure the pictures and description are accurate. I have been looking for these for a while and I am excited about the win."

But no, in Pip's calculating mind he thinks this might tip off the seller that she has been totally screwed because of her ignorance on the subject of D&D collectables. No, it is better to just shut up and let them come in the mail.

Now any time I come across this type of deal I press the BIN button and hold my breath. I am taking a gamble that this to-good-to-be-true deal is exactly that. But I take the chance knowing full well that it might not be true. I took the chance. I am responsible for my bid. But somehow Pip does not seem to accept any responsibility. Simply looking at this seller's feedback and auctions it is clear she has no idea what she is dealing with.
So Pip patiently waits the arrival of his deal of the century. It arrives and it turns out the pictures in the auction are indeed incorrect and he is actually so surprised and shocked that he immediately leaps to the seller fraud stance.

Give me a freaking break. I would be disappointed, too. But I would be laughing about it. Remember, I am the one who took the chance without hesitation that I was on a big score. For $15, it was worth the risk. So I want to cover my bases and I contact the seller and simply say, "Received the books today but they do not match your pictures. What happened?" It is that simple. She responds that she pulled the pictures from somewhere because they looked the same. End of story. Do I neg her? Hell no. That is pure vindictiveness and morally sick. I jumped at the chance to take advantage of her ignorance. I took my chance.

Do I send her a follow up email suggesting she include - in bold - that the pictures are not of the actual item? Definately.

I guess I was foolish...

assuming everyone here expects what is illustrated to arrive.
expecting sellers who blow it to apologize.
failing to anticipate other buyers here would stalk in for super deals.

I will know better next time.




Spare me the sympathy stance. You knew full well what you were doing. This attempt at bullshitting a forum full of collectors is a joke. Take some freaking responsibility. Oh, I am sorry, I know in this new politically correct United States no one is supposed to be responsible for anything they willfully act upon.



Finally, I can say all of this without reservation. I have been down this road. More than once. I have jumped BINs with items that don't even have pictures, or the picture is just a box and I have to hope all the stuff the seller say's is actually in the box is there and complete. But for $15, I am taking that risk. Sometimes I win, sometimes I only barely win. So what. If I am going to bid without asking questions about a vague auction, that is my choice. Been there, done that.



And Pip, you need to man up and send an email to that seller and ask her submit a feedback retraction through ebay. Then you need to retract that neg. That would be the right thing to do.


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

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Post Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:51 am 
 

Pip - your are either going to learn a little responsiblity from this ordeal or not.  How wonderful for you that bbarsh has laid your situation out for you so clearly.  Read his post; then read it again.  I will hope (against hope) that you will see this situation as one you (and you alone) created.

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Post Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:59 am 
 

bbarsh wrote:
Spare me the sympathy stance. You knew full well what you were doing. This attempt at bullshitting a forum full of collectors is a joke. Take some freaking responsibility. Oh, I am sorry, I know in this new politically correct United States no one is supposed to be responsible for anything they willfully act upon.

Finally, I can say all of this without reservation. I have been down this road. More than once. I have jumped BINs with items that don't even have pictures, or the picture is just a box and I have to hope all the stuff the seller say's is actually in the box is there and complete. But for $15, I am taking that risk. Sometimes I win, sometimes I only barely win. So what. If I am going to bid without asking questions about a vague auction, that is my choice. Been there, done that.

And Pip, you need to man up and send an email to that seller and ask her submit a feedback retraction through ebay. Then you need to retract that neg. That would be the right thing to do.




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Pip, the onus must lie with the buyer.  I don't think what was stated above can be said any better.

  


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Post Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:50 am 
 

Yep, quite a few of you are all lined up for it.

Buyer beware is long obsolete, has it's origins in real estate and should be left at the flea markets and garage sales where it only survives because the value of the transactions do not justify holding people accountable for their word/truth.  Buyer beware holds no water in a documented transaction, a regulated transaction, or on ebay where a buyer beware position would destroy consumer confidence in the site.  Even where the seller to have used the term in the listing, which she did not there is always "exception ... if the seller actively concealed latent defects."

My responsibility is to hit the button and pay.
The seller is responsible for describing properly, shipping properly, charging appropriate shipping/handling and for providing courteous service.  She actively lifted photos, and intentionally or unintentionally concealed both the nature of the product and latent defects.

You are very confused about what is wrong with the world.  In a world of  moral relativism, people dodge responsibility for their actions. The chain of effect her does not start with my leaving feedback, or even my hitting the button.  The actions started when she began lifting photos and continued as she described the material.  Her actions were made actionable when she listed the item for sale, sold it and delivered a different product.  From that point on, everything I did is responsive to a seller who has misrepresented merchandise and it is my right to hold her accountable for her acts.  And, since she committed the acts.... guess what fellas.... within certain parameters it is the BUYERS RIGHT to hold someone accountable in what ever way is negotiated with the seller.  Her actions as a seller were reprehensible and she has been held accountable.  

And, no, I don't email people to ask if they are honest after I buy something from them.... I presume it until they demonstrate otherwise.  That is my right, and it is the way the world should be.  I do not have an obligation to help her figure out how to run a business.  I am collecting... not running a free counseling service for idiot sellers.

Some of you need to take your armchair lawyering to the flea markets where some of the people reading your posts do not know better.

Buyer beware.... lol.  I never understood why attorneys had so much work until I joined this website and found a bunch of extremely bright people so misinformed about basic commercial code law and ethics.  No wonder the courts are clotted up.


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