Shady Dealers
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Post Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:28 pm 
 

And this is entirely regardless of who won the auction, but negging someone on a deal where (from the pics of the outside) the books look to be in good nick for $15.... I think that takes the piss somewhat.

That's an amazing price and although the seller has clearly not used the pics of the items themselves, I'm not sure about 'Shady dealer' and negging...

(but please, I would still think exactly the same, if it were Badmike, mbassoc or whomever)  8)

Edit - just as an aside, those pics on the auction are, to me, clearly not her pics just due to lack of background etc. Having looked at a lot of sales of various items, it's always clear if the pics are the item or pics are lifted.


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Post Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:00 pm 
 

What difference does it make that it was still a good deal?

She did not ship what she described and illustrated.

People use stock photos all the time, I have absolutely no issue with that if the item is in the condition described and what is sold is actually the item photographed.  

This stuff is mass produced, if it saves a seller 5 minutes so they can post more d&d for us to buy... more power to them.

However, she provided a stock photo of the WRONG book.

She did not apologize for her error/mistake.

She was rude about it.

Ebay is a matter of trust.  

She can't be trusted.  

Buying from stock photos should not mean the seller can send us anything with the same title.  That's a pig in a poke.  Especially, if they are using the valuable first print photos for the listings.
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Post Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:38 pm 
 

Pipswich wrote:What difference does it make that it was still a good deal?

She did not ship what she described and illustrated.

People use stock photos all the time, I have absolutely no issue with that if the item is in the condition described and what is sold is actually the item photographed.  

This stuff is mass produced, if it saves a seller 5 minutes so they can post more d&d for us to buy... more power to them.

However, she provided a stock photo of the WRONG book.

She did not apologize for her error/mistake.

She was rude about it.

Ebay is a matter of trust.  

She can't be trusted.  

Buying from stock photos should not mean the seller can send us anything with the same title.  That's a pig in a poke.  Especially, if they are using the valuable first print photos for the listings.
[/i]


Well, that is fair enough, I just think a neg is a little harsh. Don't think I would have reacted the same way, but you never know until you're in that position I guess..   :?

So are the markings and soiled areas particularly bad? Would you have bought them for $15 if they were described accurately? Interested in seeing what condition inside is, thats all.


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Post Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:57 pm 
 

They were a great buy anyway.  Clean and nice inside, etc.

However, she appears to have been comfortable using three stock photos... all of the wrong printing.

In addition, she is comfortable using stock photos and not noting the splattering on the cover of one of them, which you can see in my photo.

In addition, she is not sorry for here error and did not learn from it.
Instead, she responded rudely and is sorry that I am disappointed?  
She indicated no awareness that she had done nothing wrong.\
She left several auctions running that likely have similar issues.

This leads me to believe she
Without remorse.
Will use the wrong photos again.
Will not note condition issues that should be noted.

These add up to shady to me.


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Post Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:54 pm 
 

possibly, or just bloody lazy and not understanding of the items she is selling..?

she is not making a profit out of it, but fair enough, best to highlight such sellers so others don't buy unreliable items from them.


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Post Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:06 pm 
 

They were a great buy anyway.  Clean and nice inside, etc.

However, she appears to have been comfortable using three stock photos... all of the wrong printing.

In addition, she is comfortable using stock photos and not noting the splattering on the cover of one of them, which you can see in my photo.

In addition, she is not sorry for here error and did not learn from it.
Instead, she responded rudely and is sorry that I am disappointed?  
She indicated no awareness that she had done nothing wrong.\
She left several auctions running that likely have similar issues.

This leads me to believe she
Without remorse.
Will use the wrong photos again.
Will not note condition issues that should be noted.

These add up to shady to me.


I don't know that I would go as far as saying shady.  Lazy--yes, ignorant--yes, doesn't care--probably not.  Shady, it seems to me, should be reserved for those who are intentionally trying to deceive the buyer.  This seller probably wouldn't know a 1st print from a 50th print, nor does she even care.  Couple that with the fact that she is too lazy to take a picture of what is actually being sold and this is what happens.

Sometimes that's how ebay works.  When I buy on ebay things are usually what I expect.  Sometimes they are better than I expect and other times they're not.  Kind of tends to balance out in the end.

I will say this, had you bought this from a knowledgeable seller then by all means it's a shady deal.  Save this girl for the lazy/don't care thread.

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Post Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:47 pm 
 

Guys,
Stop nitpicking this... the seller is lazy and ignorant. THAT'S SHADY!

Regardless of the positive aspect of the items being under-priced... which is irrelevant. Her conduct should not be rewarded.


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Post Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:56 pm 
 

napoleonsdad wrote:
I don't know that I would go as far as saying shady.  Lazy--yes, ignorant--yes, doesn't care--probably not.  Shady, it seems to me, should be reserved for those who are intentionally trying to deceive the buyer.  This seller probably wouldn't know a 1st print from a 50th print, nor does she even care.


I'd have to agree with that, but as TheMilford says, it does deserve highlighting so others here don't get their fingers burnt. Although for $15...!  :lol:


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Post Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:27 pm 
 

Pipswich wrote:What difference does it make that it was still a good deal?

She did not ship what she described and illustrated.

[/i]


So, presumably you asked for a refund and she refused to pay return shipping?


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Post Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:51 pm 
 

Of course I did not ask for a refund.  
It would be foolish to return them for $15.
That does not remedy her error, or her failure to acknowledge one.
Further, we are still only speculating that there wasn't a switch involved.

Her response should have been fairly simple:

Oh, I am sorry.  I am new to Ebay and used someone else's photos.  I was unaware that they were different items or that it would matter to a buyer.  Would you like to send them back for a refund?

I have a lot of tolerance for honest mistakes that lead toward better listings from the sellers.  I don't have a lot of tolerance for dishonest, lazy or ignorant ones that are compounded by a sellers refusing to acknowledge one was made when caught red handed.  

She cribbed photos of the wrong books, failed to describe condition accurately and then was rude....  enough said, she got her negs.


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Post Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:03 am 
 

So you didn't ask her to make it right?  

You didn't ask for a refund, a partial refund or credit on another item or some other way of fixing the problem?

Presumably, you contacted her again and explained again what you were mad about and pointed out that your main goal was just to insure that she wouldn't post the wrong photos again in the future.  

You did that, didn't you?


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Post Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:28 am 
 

FormCritic wrote:So you didn't ask her to make it right?  

You didn't ask for a refund, a partial refund or credit on another item or some other way of fixing the problem?

Presumably, you contacted her again and explained again what you were mad about and pointed out that your main goal was just to insure that she wouldn't post the wrong photos again in the future.  

You did that, didn't you?


Yeah, and now you can rub it in her face that if she wasn't lazy and ignorant she would have gotten much more for the books...

There are lessons here for her to learn... and every aspect of this transaction just reinforces them.


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Post Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:54 am 
 

Hey, maybe you should do your shopping with her and see if you get better luck and items as described!   :roll:

Maybe she won't be rude.  If so it will be because:

Yes,  :D

I explained the issue of the photo substitution and the fact that her error created doubt regarding her intentions since the items she had illustrated were of significantly greater value then the ones received.
I also explained the dsr's I gave her.  

This is literate verbose Pipswich, lol.....  :twisted:  No sense in letting a seller flounder, wondering where they went wrong.


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Post Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:59 am 
 

TheMilford wrote:Guys,
Stop nitpicking this... the seller is lazy and ignorant. THAT'S SHADY!

Regardless of the positive aspect of the items being under-priced... which is irrelevant. Her conduct should not be rewarded.


Dead on.  If he had payed $100 for the lot would anybody be questioning whether or not she belonged on the shady dealer list?  Inaccurate item descriptions.  Failure to mention that photos were not of actual items.  Apparent disinterest in buyers valid complaints.  Honest mistake or not, it was still a mistake.  Sounds to me like someone to avoid.

  


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Post Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:16 am 
 

Precisely.

I would have hit it at $200.
$300, immediately upon confirming the other books

She can hurt any of us.  
Especially, now that she knows d&d can be valuable.


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Post Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:22 am 
 

Pipswich wrote:She did not ship what she described and illustrated.

Sorry, there's no way this belongs in the Shady Dealer thread.  Unless you want to fill it with clueless eBay sellers...but it's really meant for people that intentionally screw people over.

Clueless newbies are everywhere on eBay.  Next time you see something too good to be true, ask before rabidly hitting the BIN.

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Post Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:30 am 
 

deimos3428 wrote:but it's really meant for people that intentionally screw people over..


Kinda my point some way back and also mentioned by others. Perhaps a thread to give an explanation on what 'Shady' means is needed....  8)

:lol:


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Post Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:45 am 
 

Nobody ever intentionally tries to screw anybody... they only try to intentionally make more money... the screwing is a byproduct of a lack of moral and empathy.

"The means justifies the ends"

I guess "shady" isn't completely accurate until we know if this sort of practice becomes commonplace in her repertoire.


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Post Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:12 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:

You did that, didn't you?


Pipswich wrote:
Of course I did not ask for a refund.


Of course he didn't.  Look at his feedback given.  Ole Pip has a problem with a "shady dealer" every month or so.  Seems to have really bad luck, I suppose...

  

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Post Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:35 pm 
 

This story is about to get very interesting.

I ask this seller (junogrrl) several days ago about the module S4 she has for sale.  I know, it's one all of you have, and I knew it wasn't in the best shape, but the starting bid was $3.00 so I ask;

Is the photo in the auction a picture of the actual item? Also, please provide more information about the condition of this module. Is there any writing or highlighting within? Rust on the staples? Odd smells(pets, smoke, mildew)? Page tears? Creases? Thanks for any help you can provide.


She responds:

Hello - not a photo of actual item (from wikipedia) no writing or handwriting. no odd smells, just an old book, not mildew pets or smoke. a little rust on one of the staples. no page tears. slight creasing on cover. cover appears to be more of a containing folder, not actually attached (or intended to). staples are on the book inserted into the outside folder.
- junogrrl


Then, before I can respond, she writes:

Hello again - I've decided to end all of my D&D listings and give them to the local charity. But if you want this item, I'd be happy to send it to you if you would pay for shipping. I believe if I send it Priority Mail it should only cost about $4. let me know. my direct email is (e-mail deleted).


I say:

Dear junogrrl,

I would be happy to do that. I know you said you wanted to give the other D&D items to charity, but I was also hoping to bid on the character record sheets and the Tomb of Horrors module. Could I send you $8.00 for those three? You wouldn't even have to send it priority mail but by the cheapest way possible(Media Mail is fine about $3.00). Let me know if this is acceptable. Thank you so much for considering this. I could pay tonight.
- benjoshuasdad



She says:

Dear benjoshuasdad,

sounds like a deal to me! can we just do it directly thru paypal? my email is (e-mail deleted). I can get them in the mail on Tuesday, after the holiday.
- junogrrl


So, I pay the money and say:

Message: This is payment for three Dungeons and Dragons modules and shipping. The modules are: "Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth," "Tomb of Horrors," and "Adv. D&D Permanent Character Records." Please pack these carefully. Cardboard on top and bottom helps. Write "DO NOT BEND" on envelope. Thank you!


So she says:

Hello benjoshuasdad -
I am packing them in an album box (the kind that photo albums from hallmark come in) with some cushioning so they don't slide around. I'm throwing in a few extras, because I'm just getting rid of the stuff. It's my husband's from childhood, and they is what they is.  The description provided for the one you had contacted me about that I provided to you is as accurate to my view. (None of these have been hermetically sealed so please don't send me a nasty email like one person did, even though I felt I had represented the product accurately.)  I hope you like them!  Do you play or just collect?
-- Keni


So I say,

Thanks for carefully packing them in a box and cushioning them.  I feel much better.

I used to play but now I just collect, so condition is important to me, but I promise to not complain.  I can tell you are trying your best and that counts for a lot in my book.  And also thank you for throwing in the extra stuff.  The older the better, but I'll take anything.  My wife rolls her eyes, but I find older stuff quite interesting. Interestingly, my wife wants to get rid of some of my stuff from time to time, so I'm glad to be helping you out!  :)

And if mailing it Tuesday is a hassle, don't worry about it.  I'm in no hurry.  I am grateful for your kindness.  Have a great Labor Day Weekend!

benjoshuasdad


I get a message this morning,

Hi Benjoshuasdad - just wanted to let you know that I shipped the package today. I sent it priority, because it was only $2 more than sending parcel post. It's like that sometimes from Alaska.
-- Keni


So I say,

Wow!  Thank you so much!  I really appreciate it.

I am disconcerted someone in the D&D community sent you a nasty e-mail.  Not good.  I have a good idea who it was (Uncommon Artifacts in Mobile, Alabama)?  We D&D collector types talk among ourselves, and do all we can to make the collecting community better.  Would you be willing to forward his message to me?  The more I communicate with you, the more this situation sounds like uncalled-for behavior.  If you don't want to, no problem.

Sincerely,
benjoshuasdad


So she says,

Yes it was that collector from Alabama.  I don't want to forward the original email, but he basically accused me of selling the stuff I advertised to someone else, and giving him crap it its place.  I felt I had described the goods pretty well, even stating that it was my husband's from childhood and that one of the books had his name, address and phone number written in it in a child's handwriting, and that the books were yellowed with time.  
I don't know if I did the right thing, but I just gave him his money back and told him if he didn't like them to throw them in the trash, that I had no attachment to them.
I just didn't like being accused of doing something under-handed and making a deal with someone else on the side.  I decided that I would not be selling anymore D&D stuff, although I still have quite a bit. Currently I have several monster manuals and other manuals that are in my son's room, but he has never used them.  My husband has been known to say that if they had WOW and Champions of Norath when he was a kid, he never would have played D&D on paper. (Although he was rather poor, so probably would not have had the means to play either of those.) :-)

I wish you well.  -- Keni


So now you see what a sneaky, wheeler-dealer I am. :oops:


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