Shady Dealers
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Post Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:00 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:
Hey I guess if megnewil is okay with getting completely porked on shipping and handling costs then we all should, huh?  Considering that its your old pal Dave's whole business model for selling, I guess your responses in this thread aren't much of a surprise.


The straw man approach. May impress some, I suppose.

  

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Post Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:05 pm 
 

And then, there are the ones who refuse to allow other shipping methods, which I find to be total BS, outright. For example, maybe I don't want my item in 2-3 days (priority) when I can get it in 3-5 (flat rate) for half. I think I'm going to stop bidding on all auctions that don't let me pick my shipping method. After all, once I pay for it, its no longer the seller's item... its mine; they have my money and my item; why should they be the ones to dictate how I get my own stuff? I can have it sent to me however the hell I want, and if it gets lost or screwed up, it should be my fault because I didn't request it be sent in a better manner.

Needless, this little thing with eBay pisses me off to no end.


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:07 pm 
 

All good, common sense and equitable ideas Jason, with the choice ultimately left to the buyer. A few sellers are already following your suggestions.

  


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:12 pm 
 

serleran wrote:And then, there are the ones who refuse to allow other shipping methods, which I find to be total BS, outright. For example, maybe I don't want my item in 2-3 days (priority) when I can get it in 3-5 (flat rate) for half. I think I'm going to stop bidding on all auctions that don't let me pick my shipping method. After all, once I pay for it, its no longer the seller's item... its mine; they have my money and my item; why should they be the ones to dictate how I get my own stuff? I can have it sent to me however the hell I want, and if it gets lost or screwed up, it should be my fault because I didn't request it be sent in a better manner.

Needless, this little thing with eBay pisses me off to no end.


eBay could help by making it more straightforward to assign shipping prices. Like allowing you to input an item weight and auto-fetching the various costs for services by country. This is what Web 2.0 is all about. They could also allow packaging material costs to be itemised and stored so that the whole P&P (S&H) thing could be automated, including for multiple wins. Don't know if it's practical for every country but it would be easy to do for the UK at least.

  


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:46 pm 
 

megnelwil wrote:
The straw man approach. May impress some, I suppose.


Strawman argument?  You obviously don't know the definition of what a straw man argument is.  You also obviously seem to think that these types of practices are okay (i.e your posts here in this thread and your defense of DM Dave's practices in the past) and you are very much in the minority. Just because I am right and you have no comeback for it doesn't make it a strawman argument, sorry.


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:53 pm 
 

oh fecks sake guys, lets stop bickering between one another eh? everyone is entitled to their own opinion, whether its right or wrong. do we have to constantly shoot each other down all the time?

my only issue with the auction is that he has stated that fees are part of the handling. simple as that. the actually shipping is what he wants to charge. you see what he charges - you either still buy it, question it, or ignore it.

these things happen all the time.

serl: i offer few ways to mail from the UK abroad. its airmail or er airmail.

i like the item to get there quick and i like to have the option to track or insure. most other methods dont allow that or take way too long.

c'mon guys lets at least get on for a lil while eh?

Al



  


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:55 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:

But shipping does cost money, more than is being estimated here if the charge is $7.00 it costs a lot more than $1.75 to ship a module safely, with tracking.

I don't think it is silly to bring this up, the real cost of shipping, when a seller is being tagged as shady because of it. I just bought 2 modules from someone here and the shipping (priority box with the paypal fees added) was over $7.00

It wasn't shady, just the cost of shipping.




Lets try to act like I have sold something on Ebay before, because I have. Lots of stuff.  



http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d ... ckAsSeller



With that out of the way, you are going on the assumption that he is shipping Priority Mail in a box with Tracking.  I would be willing to bet a fair amount of money that this guy going under the guise of "standard shipping" is shipping Media Mail in a plain manilla envelope with no protection and and no tracking, thus the "standard shipping". I have seen a thousand times before. This of course doesn't come anywhere even close to $7.00, its closer to $2.35. Let alone the $14 he is quoting for 4 modules.  It's absurd.



In the end, it is up to the buyer, but again it doesn't make it any better from my nor a lot of other peoples perspectives? Will I be buying from this guy or anyone else for that matter?  Hell no, and I will also do my best to make sure that no one else falls into the trap either. Will I try to force someone from not buying from him? No, but they will know before hand what they are getting into.


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Last edited by bclarkie on Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  

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Post Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:00 pm 
 

Bclarkie: Thank you for engaging in the conversation/debate on this, really :D . I understand your point. Yet I wonder if we have done anything more than make ourselves feel good. Seems like we could have been more constructive. I was also shocked to see others acting as "thread-Nazis" who were unwilling to even discuss the issue. :roll:

I think it is fair to say that we ALL think the guy overcharges...because he does.

I also think it is fair to say that we know why he overcharges...because he said so (taking all those costs into account, etc...).

My only beef is that this hardly seems "shady." Quite the opposite, it seems he is practicing in open daylight by telling people his reasoning. So, I still agree with the poster who questions the value of reporting the poster.

I don't think it helps Acaeum members or collectors at large (assuming they can read). The only entity potentially benefitted is Ebay. Now, and please read carefully, I have no beef with Ebay whatsoever and do think they should get their payday too. On the other hand, who are we supposed to be looking out for? We could have even benefitted the seller by schooling him on Ebay rules  as well as our views of ridiculously high shipping charges. Give him a chance to come in line. If he does, then everyone gets their due. As it stands, all I think we've done is the old tattle..."neener neener" thing.

8O

Finally, I historically avoid threads such as this because of the general lynch mob flair that can sometimes creep in. While I, too, get angry about scheems and outright thieves on Ebay I just think that we are sometimes guilty of the "if it walks like a shady dealer and charges like a shady dealer," then we need not check...just run 'em through!!!!

Aren't we better than that? :D

  


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:03 pm 
 

I've looked at three of these auctions, and I don't see the shady factor. The guy's shipping policy is stupid, that's for sure, but it is clearly stated ... how can that be "shady?" Does he have some mysterious power that can actually make people place a bid?

Actually, I'm not sure at all why eBay shipping is discussed so much around here. The entire argument can be ended with 11 words: if you don't like the shipping terms, don't place a bid.

Next subject, please.

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Post Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:32 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:
Strawman argument?  You obviously don't know the definition of what a straw man argument is.  You also obviously seem to think that these types of practices are okay (i.e your posts here in this thread and your defense of DM Dave's practices in the past) and you are very much in the minority. Just because I am right and you have no comeback for it doesn't make it a strawman argument, sorry.


Yeah sure I know what a straw man is BC. Though your particular model is built from 'facts' you plucked out of your rear end, such as me wanting to see people get 'porked' on postage, and the defence of my 'Pal' Dave. Heard you had a reputation for doing your homework, guess I heard wrong. So you knocking down your own pack of 'shady' accusations doesn't remove the original argument, does it? Wasn't me who dropped the argument and changed the subject, was it? But you go ahead and take the last shot because I've said what I wanted to say and a pointless slanging match would be a waste of time now that the actual point has been made. Wouldn't be much of a challenge either if your performance so far is an indicator. That said, I should have bottled the original sarcasm, that was counter-productive and provocative and I apologise for it.

Poster below [edit: above] gets it dead right on shipping.  All that's required is for people to take a look at the costs and either bid or move along.


Last edited by mnw on Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  

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Post Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:34 pm 
 

nevcoup wrote:I was also shocked to see others acting as "thread-Nazis" who were unwilling to even discuss the issue. :roll:


out of curiousity....can i ask if you are including me in that comment?



  


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:38 pm 
 

Doubt it Al. In fact Nevcoup has been ballsy enough to get much nearer to what's really going on here.

  


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:18 pm 
 

megnelwil wrote:
Yeah sure I know what a straw man is BC. Though your particular model is built from 'facts' you plucked out of your rear end, such as me wanting to see people get 'porked' on postage, and the defence of my 'Pal' Dave. Heard you had a reputation for doing your homework, guess I heard wrong.


See, there you go and prove me wrong.  You know exactly what a straw man argument is, you just posted one.

megnelwil wrote:So you knocking down your own pack of 'shady' accusations doesn't remove the original argument, does it? Wasn't me
who dropped the argument and changed the subject, was it?


Except, I did neither.  The argument isn't why the seller is charging the fees, its the fact that he is charging the fees.  Whether or he is explicitly stating it, he is still doing it.  The only real difference between this guy and most of the other sellers out there who charge the exact same fees into their s&h fees is the fact that he has left himself open to have Ebay shut him down for violating thier rules, everything else is exactly the same. Again, since you obviously missed it the first time, if someone is effectively stealing your money whether or not you know about it nor not, DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACT THAT HE IS STILL STEALING YOUR MONEY.

megnelwil wrote: Wouldn't be much of a challenge either if your performance so far is an indicator.  


More straw? No thanks I am done with this now.


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:27 pm 
 

Okay, we both got our shots in. Are we going to shake virtual hands now and call it a day?

  

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Post Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:22 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:
out of curiousity....can i ask if you are including me in that comment?


NO, NO, NO!!

When I posted I saw that you had posted just prior and was worried you might think so :oops:  :cry:

No. As many have said, you are clearly one of the most pleasant and welcoming people here :D

Sorry for any confusion.

I was reacting to the "not this again" "end of story" "he's a bad guy 'cause he's mentioned here" bold statements.

Again, a million sorrys :oops:  Not directed at you.

  

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Post Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:38 pm 
 

nevcoup wrote:
NO, NO, NO!!

When I posted I saw that you had posted just prior and was worried you might think so :oops:  :cry:

No. As many have said, you are clearly one of the most pleasant and welcoming people here :D

Sorry for any confusion.

I was reacting to the "not this again" "end of story" "he's a bad guy 'cause he's mentioned here" bold statements.

Again, a million sorrys :oops:  Not directed at you.


s'ok no problemo chummer - thanks for clarifying.

the only issue i have with that seller, apart from the shipping being OTT in the tanya-is-an-ass region, is that they are passing on the fees, which you cant do.

thats why it should be reported, simple as.

Al



  

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Post Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 7:50 pm 
 

i like to have the option to track or insure.


Of course, and I would not say to not ship it that way, because its a matter of forcing the postal system to be accountable for their mistakes, when the fault lies with them. But, if its down between 1 day delivery for $20 and 5-10 days for $2... I'm going with $2. I at least want the option to pick. That's my point. I don't like being told I can only get my package one method (unless, in reality, there is only one actual method.) Give me my choices and let me make them... don't tell me what's best for me because it costs the most. :)

Anyway, I was unsure what the seller had done too. I just thought it was a case of overpriced shipping.


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:11 pm 
 

yeah i agree there. your postal service is way better than ours for options. our options are severely limited.

Al



  

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Post Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:41 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:yeah i agree there. your postal service is way better than ours for options. our options are severely limited.

Al


Limited options in Canada also. I have a few items up right now including some lots of old sci-fi magazines. I had a question on the shipping asking if I could ship them by a slower method for a cheaper price to the US. Unfortunately the mags and packaging weigh in at just over 3 pounds and the price I have quoted just barely covers the cost to the East coast of the US and I would actually end up taking about a $1.75 loss if I ship them to California/West coast.


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:32 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:I've looked at three of these auctions, and I don't see the shady factor. The guy's shipping policy is stupid, that's for sure, but it is clearly stated ... how can that be "shady?" Does he have some mysterious power that can actually make people place a bid?

Actually, I'm not sure at all why eBay shipping is discussed so much around here. The entire argument can be ended with 11 words: if you don't like the shipping terms, don't place a bid.

Next subject, please.


Ditto. You don't like the shipping price, don't bid.   All things will equal out in the end...the guy charging too much shipping will lose out on sales to the guy charging realistic amounts, it's that simple.

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