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Post Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:41 pm 
 

I have to wonder if Titan was selling stuff NobleKnight didn't want to buy.

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:49 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:I have to wonder if Titan was selling stuff NobleKnight didn't want to buy.

ShaneG.


i think you could well be right!

none of the stuff they had was at all interesting and many duplicates of each title they DID have.....

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:56 pm 
 

International shipping might be something different.

Otherwise, Titan Games has always made no bones about making money off of shipping.

They sell low and ship high and that is their stated business model.

It is the $7 to ship a module guys that get me.

It gets worse and worse because new sellers look at the posted shipping prices and they think that shipping ripoffs are standard...and I guess they may be right.  Thing is...they mark up the already inflated price.

So, new sellers enter the market with prices from Amazon and shipping from Ebay and the result is nutty.


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Post Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 2:35 pm 
 

improvstone wrote:
Its OK.  If you look closely at the photos from GenCon I believe Al has sent his Shrew to deal with her.

[ Image ]



With BadMike in the background ready to coach her on how to deal with unexpected, giant shrew attacks ..... my money's on Tonya.

Don't forget, according to Mike, Tonya's sporting a chainmail bikini underneath....  :wink:

  

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:19 pm 
 

If I had my choice between the two, I'd definitely rather wrangle with the giant shrew, chainmail bikini and all aside.

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:25 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:International shipping might be something different.

Otherwise, Titan Games has always made no bones about making money off of shipping.

They sell low and ship high and that is their stated business model.

It is the $7 to ship a module guys that get me.

It gets worse and worse because new sellers look at the posted shipping prices and they think that shipping ripoffs are standard...and I guess they may be right.  Thing is...they mark up the already inflated price.

So, new sellers enter the market with prices from Amazon and shipping from Ebay and the result is nutty.


Titan games took me for a $250 lot years ago

As far as $7 to ship a module, that isn't too high becuase you can't send them media mail. It's either priority or parcel post. If you sell through ebay you need tracking so it is something like $5.15 minimum to ship the lightest module.

  


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Post Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:34 pm 
 

I find nothing more annoying than to see shipping charges of $7-$9 plus to mail a single module "via standard shipping" and additional modules combined at half the stated rate.  Further, standard shipping is typically the term for media mail so the seller will make a decent profit on shipping alone.

Ebay sellers are clever.  Many have figured out that they can buy virtually any media mail qualifying item (typically in lots) and make their profit on shipping alone.  The sad part is that many sellers do not care what they are selling, are uneducated about the game, and will remain uneducated.  They don't know and don't care to know that some products come with maps and various inserts.  Add to this an uncaring customer service attitude, "as is sales", and bullying feedback tactics and you get a real mess.

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:15 pm 
 

napoleonsdad wrote:I find nothing more annoying than to see shipping charges of $7-$9 plus to mail a single module "via standard shipping" and additional modules combined at half the stated rate.  Further, standard shipping is typically the term for media mail so the seller will make a decent profit on shipping alone.

Ebay sellers are clever.  Many have figured out that they can buy virtually any media mail qualifying item (typically in lots) and make their profit on shipping alone.  The sad part is that many sellers do not care what they are selling, are uneducated about the game, and will remain uneducated.  They don't know and don't care to know that some products come with maps and various inserts.  Add to this an uncaring customer service attitude, "as is sales", and bullying feedback tactics and you get a real mess.


I'd be psissed to pay for priority and get media. You should report the seller to a USPS postal inspector.

Modules do not qualify for media and a seller abusing the USPS this way can get into a great deal of trouble. If they do ship priority them they really aren't ripping anyone off with having to pass on the expensive shipping fees.

But many ebay sellers do try and rip people off on shipping and "handling" charges.

  


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Post Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:16 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:Modules do not qualify for media and a seller abusing the USPS this way can get into a great deal of trouble. If they do ship priority them they really aren't ripping anyone off with having to pass on the expensive shipping fees.



Modules do qualify for Media Mail, they are books. Box sets don't, although you can get away with it, but modules and hardcovers most certainly qualify for Media Mail shipping.


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Post Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:22 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:
Modules do qualify for Media Mail, they are books. Box sets don't, although you can get away with it, but modules and hardcovers most certainly qualify for Media Mail shipping.


Check with the post office (I have). Modules are not bound printed matter or manuscripts.

Magazines, comic books, game modules, none are considred books or qualify for media mail shipping.

Let me add to this. Some module are books. Any 'bound' ratehr than stapled module is considered a book. All the old modules that were folded paper with staples, any similar new module that does not have a bound edge, those do not qualify for media mail. Any 'bound' item that is a magazine does not qualify.

You can get away with shipping these things media mail, until you don't. If you are a business or sell and ship items like these on a regular basis you run the risk of being caught  and are breaking the law.


Last edited by JasonZavoda on Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  


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Post Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:29 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:
Check with the post office (I have). Modules are not bound printed matter or manuscripts.

Magazines, comic books, game modules, none are considred books or qualify for media mail shipping.


They do qualify for Media Mail rate, they don't contain any ads and they are most certianly books.  Tecnically magazines don't qualify, because of the ads they contain,  alhtough I have heard that you can make a case if they are more than a year or too old.  Comic books can run into the same problems as magazines becaus they contain advertisments.  But believe me, i have been sellling steadily for the 2 1/2 years and D&D hardcovers and modules most certainly qualify for Media Mail.  If your post office told you differently, they are wrong.  Here is the USPS site about media mail and no where does it mention anything about game books:

http://pe.usps.gov/text/qsg300/Q370.htm

Its the advertisements that are the key in shipping Media Mail, although to be honest thats really never been much of a problem either.  You only run into problems when they can hear dice or other hard objects floating around when they get suspicious enough to want to inspect it.  :)  Regardless though, modules do qualify.


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Post Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:40 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:
They do qualify for Media Mail rate, they don't contain any ads and they are most certianly books.  Tecnically magazines don't qualify, because of the ads they contain,  alhtough I have heard that you can make a case if they are more than a year or too old.  Comic books can run into the same problems as magazines becaus they contain advertisments.  But believe me, i have been sellling steadily for the 2 1/2 years and D&D hardcovers and modules most certainly qualify for Media Mail.  If your post office told you differently, they are wrong.  Here is the USPS site about media mail and no where does it mention anything about game books:

http://pe.usps.gov/text/qsg300/Q370.htm

Its the advertisements that are the key in shipping Media Mail, although to be honest thats really never been much of a problem either.  You only run into problems when they can hear dice or other hard objects floating around when they get suspicious enough to want to inspect it.  :)  Regardless though, modules do qualify.


I spoke with the postal inspector and delaware postmaster.  

If you have heard differently from someone at the post office please let me know who.

The problem is that you are definign a stapled product as a book and I have been told that it is the binding as much as the advertising that determines the status of an item.

I have been shipping since the late '80s and shipping gaming material from online sales since '95.

I believe you have been ill advised.

Here is the quote from the USPS website.

Media Mail

 
Media Mail is used for books, film, manuscripts, printed music, printed test materials, sound recordings, play scripts, printed educational charts, loose-leaf pages and binders consisting of medical information, videotapes, and computer-recorded media like CDs and diskettes. Media Mail cannot contain advertising.


Contact them for a definition of 'Book' which is the heart of the issue.

  


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Post Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:43 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:
Contact them for a definition of 'Book' which is the heart of the issue.


You mean to tell me that someone actually had the temerity to say that a module isn't a book?  Just because its stapled a little differently doesn't make it any less of a "book", I don;t care what anyone says.  Perhaps you should provide them with another type of "book", a dictionary. :wink:


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Post Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:52 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:
You mean to tell me that someone actually had the temerity to say that a module isn't a book?  Just because its stapled a little differently doesn't make it any less of a "book", I don;t care what anyone says.  Perhaps you should provide them with another type of "book", a dictionary. :wink:


I agree it makes no sense, just government beauridiocy. They are simply shipping nonhazardous/perishable contents in a box at a slow pace. Why a box of hardcovers should qualify and a pack of folded, stapled modules should not or even a box of magazines should not is simply an arbitrary rule.

Government is 99% arbitrary out-dated rules waiting to be changed.

  

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:03 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:
I spoke with the postal inspector and delaware postmaster.  

If you have heard differently from someone at the post office please let me know who.

The problem is that you are definign a stapled product as a book and I have been told that it is the binding as much as the advertising that determines the status of an item.

I have been shipping since the late '80s and shipping gaming material from online sales since '95.

I believe you have been ill advised.

Here is the quote from the USPS website.

Media Mail

 
Media Mail is used for books, film, manuscripts, printed music, printed test materials, sound recordings, play scripts, printed educational charts, loose-leaf pages and binders consisting of medical information, videotapes, and computer-recorded media like CDs and diskettes. Media Mail cannot contain advertising.


Contact them for a definition of 'Book' which is the heart of the issue.


Guys;

It depends on who you talk to, very typical for the USPS.  I have been told by the postmaster at my local post office that modules can be considered media mail.  When I questioned the ruling just to be sure, I was told "It ultimately depends on the opinion of the inspector that opens your package"  8O  Nice to know these things aren't standardized.  I have had a package opened and returned as being "not media mail" and the punishment was nil; just to resend as other than media mail.  The kick was the items were DEFINITELY media mail; I showed to the person at the counter and they rolled their eyes (it was VCR tapes).  So Your Mileage May Vary is the watchword here. Personally I wouldn't worry about it until I am specifically directed by the powers that be that I CANNOT consider a copy of B2 media mail. I think anyone opening a package full of modules would have no earthly idea what they are looking at anyway and would probably just let it go on...
 
I have heard of successful arguments for mailing comics and old magazines through media mail using the "old advertisement" thing; I guess it just depends on who you deal with.  Probably 999 times out of 1000 your package is not going to be opened or inspected unless there isa definite red flag; as stated anyone can open your package for any reason, however I have been told by postal employees that if the item is securely taped up and hard to open they won't bother, as they will have to reseal it (laziness on their part) and don't want to take the time to mess with it...!

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:08 pm 
 

My guess would be when the Federal government came up with the media mail regulations there were specific reasons for doing so.  Gaming material probably wasn't one of them :)

As with any government entity it all depends on who you ask.  :?

In any event many ebay sellers use media mail, be it right or wrong, solely for the purpose of profiting on shipping.

And, while on the subject, being charged $7 for a Priority mail package may not be terribly high, many of these sellers' combined shipping rates get to be a little absurd.  I wouldn't like being charged $7 for the first item plus another $3.50 or so for additionals.  In theory you could be paying something like $17.50 for 4 modules that costs $4.60 to ship in one envelope.  Yikes!!

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:13 pm 
 

napoleonsdad wrote:My guess would be when the Federal government came up with the media mail regulations there were specific reasons for doing so.  Gaming material probably wasn't one of them :)

As with any government entity it all depends on who you ask.  :?

In any event many ebay sellers use media mail, be it right or wrong, solely for the purpose of profiting on shipping.

And, while on the subject, being charged $7 for a Priority mail package may not be terribly high, many of these sellers' combined shipping rates get to be a little absurd.  I wouldn't like being charged $7 for the first item plus another $3.50 or so for additionals.  In theory you could be paying something like $17.50 for 4 modules that costs $4.60 to ship in one envelope.  Yikes!!


Especially since Priority flat rate is only $8.95

Personally I'd be more upset to receive my modules in an envelope rather than a box.

  

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:19 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:
Guys;

It depends on who you talk to, very typical for the USPS.  I have been told by the postmaster at my local post office that modules can be considered media mail.  When I questioned the ruling just to be sure, I was told "It ultimately depends on the opinion of the inspector that opens your package"  8O  Nice to know these things aren't standardized.  I have had a package opened and returned as being "not media mail" and the punishment was nil; just to resend as other than media mail.  The kick was the items were DEFINITELY media mail; I showed to the person at the counter and they rolled their eyes (it was VCR tapes).  So Your Mileage May Vary is the watchword here. Personally I wouldn't worry about it until I am specifically directed by the powers that be that I CANNOT consider a copy of B2 media mail. I think anyone opening a package full of modules would have no earthly idea what they are looking at anyway and would probably just let it go on...
 
I have heard of successful arguments for mailing comics and old magazines through media mail using the "old advertisement" thing; I guess it just depends on who you deal with.  Probably 999 times out of 1000 your package is not going to be opened or inspected unless there isa definite red flag; as stated anyone can open your package for any reason, however I have been told by postal employees that if the item is securely taped up and hard to open they won't bother, as they will have to reseal it (laziness on their part) and don't want to take the time to mess with it...!

Mike B.


Mike,

I think if you checked at the state or federal level, rather than the local unit postmaster, you would find that your B2 could not be shipped as media mail. Other than this summer I haven't been an active seller or shipper in years, but I don't care to break the law, even a stupid law, to save a few bucks. I'll save my transgressions for something more vital to me.

  

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:37 pm 
 

so ok.

you have a book....bound blah blah so thats media mail...

now you have a pre-pub manuscript of the book that is sheets of paper that is stapled together, but is essentially, exactly the same as a book, but cant be mailed media mail, because the item is stapled....

is that right?

Al



  

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:32 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:so ok.

you have a book....bound blah blah so thats media mail...

now you have a pre-pub manuscript of the book that is sheets of paper that is stapled together, but is essentially, exactly the same as a book, but cant be mailed media mail, because the item is stapled....

is that right?

Al


Manuscripts are covered under media mail.

Of course all these rules developed because of shipping from publishing companies. I bet Ben Franklin is to blame.

  
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