Shady Dealers
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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:00 pm 
 

How people deal with each other is one matter and some people are hot headed.  Some people (even here) make wild accusations with no basis or proof just because someone doesn't share the same opinion.  In general you hope that people are good and honest (and I believe most people are).  So, if someone complains that it isn't in the condition they expect then hopefully it isn't.  By the sounds of it, shipping a NM module in a jiffy probably didn't have much of a chance of arriving in NM.  If the item got sold to someone who just wanted to use it then you are probably fine.  If it was shipped to a collector, then its a problem.

Its not a high price item so if the buyer complains, chances are its legit.  From what you describe the buyer has not been the easiest to work with but it doesn't mean that you as the seller shouldn't make things right.  Without any proof of damage from the buyer, you know if you shipped it in an envelope without cardboard through international shipping.  Flat out, there is very little chance a NM item makes it safely there in NM in the packaging you describe.

Its an interesting situation with the feedback though.

1. If you decide not to do any kind of refund, then the negative feedback is probably legit and deserved (although premature).  You know how you shipped it and now know that it probably didn't arrive safely and didn't do anything about it.  End result is what it should be.

2. If you do decide to do something, then hopefully feedback will change, etc - but we won't know this outcome until later.

A lot of it depends on what you are comfortable with.  Most of these situations say a lot about not only the buyer but also the seller.

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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:23 pm 
 

Anklestab, Mars is giving you some excellent advice.  Most people are honest, and now you learned a little bit more about how to pack items and what to expect from eBay/Paypal.  

Most all of us here have been ripped off by someone from time to time, and most all of us have made mistakes.  If you go into eBay thinking there's a way to never get ripped, that's impossible.  But there are lots of things I have learned from this community which have made my selling experiences a lot better, and I just factor in that every hundred transactions or so I'm going have problem(s).  It comes with the territory, and I usually just refund quickly and with smile and go on.

I must also say that I have shipped many items to France and never had a problem.  I used to ship to Italy, had success with several items, and then several shipments didn't go well so I decided that was enough.   8)


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:35 pm 
 

Mars makes some good points, well worth bearing in mind.

Hwever, where Guydrin_Avalon is concerned (and his erstwhile girlfriend, natalie4321 IIRC) then realistically all you can do is ignore everything he says and hope he goes away. Technically he can claim through paypal, but you have proof of threats /blackmail which they may or may not take on board - frankly its a coin-toss. As for him removing his neg - it's never going to happen and ebay are not going to remove it either- purely because nothing has been posted publically. I had similar (and worse) from this piece of shit but the neg stayed - sorry but ebays rules are clear. Block him and move on I'm afraid - He's another internet fantasist with no morals who, one day, will get his comeuppance  - it's a small world after all and one day someone is going to knock on his door and knock his teeth out - harsh, but IMO fair.

Sorry for the rant, but reasonable behaviour goes out of the window sometimes, and there really is no apologising for this twat.

Carl


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:59 pm 
 

evanevanevans wrote:I'm after a bit of advice here on a potentially shady dealer ...

So I win an auction for a dozen modules and when they arrive most of them are in poor condition - I'm taking about pages missing, pages present but all cut up, only two folds on a tri-fold, one all wrinkly with water damage etc... effectively over half of them are unusable.

The auction doesn't mention this but does say they're all "kept in plastic wrap".

so (via the paypal process) I ask for a partial refund as I didn't see the point in paying to send them back but get nowhere with the seller so I escalte to a claim and paypal sends me a messgae saying something like 'no problem - send the stuff back tracked and we'll refund you'.

Now I'm thinking ... hang on?  Do I have to pay postage twice for these items? Its international so expensive to the point of not worth it for the available refund.  So ... eventually I get to the point ... is this a scam ... seller sends a load of crap through knowing that the buyer is likely to cut their losses and have to keep it rather than send it back and have to pay all the postage?

Or, am I misunderstanding how this will work and will paypal somehow reinburse my extra postage costs?

Has anyone had this happen to them?  

I'm thinking that I just chalk it up to experience and let it go ... the tiny silver lining being the well justified neg.


I won a bunch of modules from that seller as well. Scroll down her feedbacks and you'll see my two negatives I dropped on her face as well. I win $100 in modules, most of which are kinda beat up as well, but you take a chance when you bid on stuff that poorly described, so I wasn't as miffed about condition as you were. My problem is in my feedback. $100 worth of modules and she ships them in two manila envelopes, packing taped together, in plastic comic bags. That's it. No other support. No nothing, just bags and tape. Needless to say, all four corners got gang banged in the mail system, plus she charged me double money to ship them, basically wrapped in newspaper.

I understand packing a little wiggle room in there. For instance, my auctions ship one module for $4.00. Media Mail costs $2.50 to actually ship it. For your extra $1.50 you get your module bagged, boarded, and reinforced with a thick piece of cardboard in a thick paper bubble mailer. I haven't had a single complaint yet. You charge me $8.50 to ship $4.00 and wrap it in promises and hopes? No thanks.

At any rate. *deep breath* Sorry. Had to rant a bit. ;) But yes, cardboard reinforcement is a must. Anything over $50 or so I ship in a box just to make super sure.

Zenfinite

  


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:17 am 
 

Anklestab, I'd consider offering a partial refund or a total refund if the goods are returned. I have no doubt the fool is reading this thread, but if you verbally offer a refund via ebay, they'll have a record that you've acted reasonably. Pay return shipping and take the hit there and then resell them. You may even get more. The issue is trusting he`ll return them.


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:33 am 
 

Appreciate the feedback guys.

Mars advice is very sound and I don't disagree with it. I have only sold about just over a dozen items previously and the feedback on those was great. Today, I not only got a note from my French friend but an English guy left me Pos feedback to say the items were great but he expected them to be packed with more protection - I checked this out with him, they were not damaged but he could see the pack had bent a little. So I don't think there is any question that I should always cost and pack these with cardboard included - it must be that I just got lucky with the post in the past. To be honest, in the UK Domestic shipping this could double the price. We have 3 rates - Letter, Large Letter and Packet - and the inclusion of 2 decent cards in with a couple of modules probably pushes it into the Packet. I guess there's no doubts that serious collectors or people paying good money for stuff would want that...but someone not so serious paying 0.99p for a module but 4 or 5 times that for postage? Who knows....irrelevant anyway, for any remaining items they will be packed with card. No question.

And yes, pretty much any business transaction says as much about the seller as the buyer, it's a 2-way street. But I am not so desperate to remove Neg feedback that I will just refund someone who doesn't have the slightest courtesy - to discuss the problem first and abuses me via e-mail and feedback, calling me a rip-off seller etc etc. I don't think I do KNOW that this item arrived damaged - if it did arrive with an apology from Royal Mail taped to it as he says - then it's no issue to me is it? I would just refund him first and then claim my money back from the UK Royal Mail.

And benjoshua - I know you are right....that is exactly what I should do. Refund, smile, move on...it's the sensible thing but I just can't bring myself to do it with this guy. The price I have to pay for that decision is some neg feedback.

So I think I'm going down the Option 1 route Mars. Yes, the feedback has now had a few hit points taken off it but I've learned the lessons about packing and picking carefully who I deal with, especially overseas. He can process his chargeback, I'll go through that whole dispute process and then claim my money eventually from Royal Mail.

The saddest thing is that it got to this stage at all - every part was eminently avoidable and it is clearly the case that all 3 parties - me, Frenchman and Royal Mail - got something wrong along the way.  
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Post Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:38 am 
 

Oh yeah, he is reading it ash:

"I'm back home with requested pics on a USB key, but as you all tell lies about me on the Acaeum, i will only give them to my bank officer.

Prepare for the chargeback, stupid and dishonest seller !!!"

Again, good advice ash...and I will bear in mind for any future sales.But I won't do anything with this guy that needs even the tiniest modicum of trust.

  


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:37 am 
 

Anklestab wrote:Oh yeah, he is reading it ash:

"I'm back home with requested pics on a USB key, but as you all tell lies about me on the Acaeum, i will only give them to my bank officer.

Prepare for the chargeback, stupid and dishonest seller !!!"

Again, good advice ash...and I will bear in mind for any future sales.But I won't do anything with this guy that needs even the tiniest modicum of trust.


The guy is an absolute lowest level form of scumbag from what I have seen. Rightly, no doubt he will get his payback one day.

hope things get resolved on the RM front and you get something back.

As an aside, the last couple of mods I sold, I went with the A4 size cardboard envelopes that you can buy in WHS (£2 maybe for 5) and they cost about £1 to send around the UK, so you may find you're ok on postage for the future.


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:25 am 
 

Thanks ash, will keep you posted on progress.

I agree with you & Carl that someday what comes around goes around. Another user on here has very kindly updated me with all his other ebay ids - including one that he used to ask me the 'how much is the postage to France question' (I assume he did this because I mention acaeum on my listings and he was obviously publicly 'outed' on his main ebay id). All are now blocked.

Cheers for the advice on the cardboard, I won't be shipping the remaining items without it even if it does cost me a bit extra on the side. And that's not an admission of 'guilt' or liability in respect of this particular incident as I think there is much more to it. It's more an acceptance that - based on the feedback from the people here and one of my UK buyes - I do need to take improved steps to reduce the risk of the PO trashing stuff.

  


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:26 am 
 

Just realised....that price you quoted on the WHS cardboard envelopes is way cheaper than the jiffys I used. Thanks again!

  


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:55 am 
 

Better check, as I got them a few weeks back, but sure they work out better.


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:04 am 
 

Packing - Cardboard envelopes are still only envelopes.  They are stiffer and more durable than padded or plain envelopes, but they require corner reinforcement to prevent corner bangs and spine bangs.  I have lost count of the number of cardboard books that almost safely made their way to me.

An inner layer or sheath of cardboard helps prevent corner bangs and other damage.  I think that the protection is worth the extra tape, time, and weight.

I am certain that I did not pack well when I first started selling items.  Over time I did observe the packing of items that I bought and their condition when I opened them up.
  • Damaged items = loose packing, thin envelopes, floppy envelopes, etc.
  • Undamaged items = Tight packing, stiff packaging, lots of cardboard, etc.

I am not a perfect packer now, but I do the best that I can.  Cardboard boxes are free and plentiful at liquor stores and, well, stores in general.

  

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Post Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:56 am 
 

Anklestab wrote:
"That is what you will earn each time you sent a near mint module within a jiffy bag, without AT LEAST a cardboard within !!!

You're a stupid seller unable to pack items with efficiency."

- guydrin_avalon

.


Does someone have a complete up to date list of this guy's ebay ids?

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:36 pm 
 

gyg wrote:Mars makes some good points, well worth bearing in mind.

Hwever, where Guydrin_Avalon is concerned (and his erstwhile girlfriend, natalie4321 IIRC) then realistically all you can do is ignore everything he says and hope he goes away. Technically he can claim through paypal, but you have proof of threats /blackmail which they may or may not take on board - frankly its a coin-toss. As for him removing his neg - it's never going to happen and ebay are not going to remove it either- purely because nothing has been posted publically. I had similar (and worse) from this piece of shit but the neg stayed - sorry but ebays rules are clear. Block him and move on I'm afraid - He's another internet fantasist with no morals who, one day, will get his comeuppance  - it's a small world after all and one day someone is going to knock on his door and knock his teeth out - harsh, but IMO fair.

Sorry for the rant, but reasonable behaviour goes out of the window sometimes, and there really is no apologising for this twat.

Carl


how interesting this thread has become.

Like Carl, i have had similar problems. I will not go into it further as i do not deem it necessary. I am sure he will read this (which i hope he does). I will be travelling through france next summer enroute to something i am doing and i have EVERY intention of paying him a visit along the way, as i will be travelling quite close to where he lives.

I will be standing right in front of his face, so he can repeat to me, word for word, what he said to me in the e-mails to me. i hope, for his sake, that he has the balls to do so, THEN he will see my reaction first hand.

I tried all i could to resolve things and always went out of my way to help also. There will always be human error in things relating to modules etc.

Hell will freeze over before i ever have anything to do with them again.

Al



  


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:54 pm 
 

I wish you well on that venture Killjoy....not heading to the Medoc Marathon by any chance are you? (yes, I skimmed your blog) I really quite fancy that one...have only ever done a half-marathon before but the thought of 6 hours being an acceptable time whilst drinking half of Bordeaux dry sounds perfect to me.

I look forward to the feedback on your trip (negative or positive). It never ceases to amaze me quite how brave and brazen people can be with words when they are sent down a cable and I imagine that boldness would evaporate for many if faced with whomsoever they so easily abuse from a distance. I've only said it twice before so....what comes around goes around. One day.

  

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Post Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:57 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:
Does someone have a complete up to date list of this guy's ebay ids?



Wouldn't mind this list myself (though it is probably irrelevant as I simply don't ship to France now. (No real loss to the French really :D . I only do ebay as a bit of fun for the most part and I simply don't need the aggravation of risking one of Guydrin-Avalons alleged 'French Ebay D&D Mafia' ripping me off).

I would be interested in seeing a straw-poll of how many here have him blocked.

And Al - just remember to play nice :wink:


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Post Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:43 am 
 

I have him blocked - from a block list I got from Jason, I think.

And I don't ship to France or Italy (members in good standing here would be an exception, of course).


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Post Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:21 am 
 

Just to clarify, I am not seeking opinions on whether I am a donut or not. That is about to become exceedingly clear - I would like your views on seller action you would deem fair and reasonable for the following, based on your experience.

I am starting to think that me and e-bay are a match made in Grazz't's toilet.  As part of the bunch of listings I put up last week, one of them was a Good condition Basic booklet. Unfortunately, whilst my description was nice and accurate, I managed to put a gallery pic of a lovely looking B8 (for another listing running at the same time) up there. My buyer has quite naturally queried this.

I am awaiting his confirmation on if he wants to change it or not but, assuming he does, should I offer to refund all costs - module, my shipping, his shipping back - or given that the description is accurate only offer a partial recompense?

I feel it would be unreasonable of me to offer nothing given the mistake...I would just appreciate some views :)

When I used to play D&D, Anklestab progressed to becoming a 6th level halfling thief over a number of years. Little did I know that he would develop so quickly into a 10th level Shady Dealer :)

  
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