Shady Dealers
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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:25 am 
 

I think this is effectively know as blackmail?

- I either send him a refund, he keeps the goods and I maybe get nice feedback.

- Or he will just chargeback, keep the goods and I keep negative feedback

Wow...I feel such protection as a seller!! :) It did make me chuckle though that I should apparently check out the backgrounds of each of my buyers before I decide what sort of packing to give them. All he had to say was ask - he asked me to quote for overseas shipping, why not give the required standard? Which is why I can smell some fishes.

My only disappointment is that the 'Acaeum Valuation Board' would tolerate the presence of such an unpleasant individual. But hey-ho, that's life...I certainly won't be blackmailed.

But selling to this guy was definitely one of the poorest decisions I have made on e-bay.

"What you state is nonsense : thinking a Near Mint module will arrive in the same condition after an Airmail travel is utopy !

If you had taken a look at my number of items bought during the last 12 months and to my "about me" page, you would have understood :
1) i'm a collector
2) i'm from the Acaeum's Valuation board
3) you should have taken measures to protect the item with more efficiency, AS WHEN SOMEONE SPENDS $12.000 per year in RPG, buying 30 items monthly, in the balance between paying small amounts and receiving a damaged item OR paying a little more and receiving an item in the same condition as described, you would have understood which one i would have prefered !

You have a problem :
* in case i revise my feedback, i'm not sure you will refund me
* in case you refund me firstly, you would not be sure i will accept to revise my feedback

So, choose :
* a refund followed by a feedback revisal
OR
* a credit card chargeback tomorrow with £6 Paypal chargeback fees

Like I said...I won't be blackmailed.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:31 am 
 

Wow  8O

Mental note on the cardboard:  It is absolutely necessary.


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:52 am 
 

guydrin_avalon wrote:2) i'm from the Acaeum's Valuation board

:lol:

Everything he says is lie, invention, lie, invention...
There is a chance that your modules has arrived without any dommages...

Have a look at the feedbacks he left to sellers, you will understand that YOU are not the problem, Anklestab.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:59 am 
 

Yep...it probably is, especially if you're selling to someone who apparently spends $12,000 on RPGs

Thing is, he asked me to quote for overseas shipping but never told me he was a collector, never asked for specific packing instructions. The people who paid big bucks things did ask for those things so - as collectors rather than an occasional seller like me - they helped me to avoid this kind of thing.

Also...why turn it personal rather than on the people to blame, the Post Office? If his item is damaged I am happy for him to claim but I want my money back too - he can keep the goods.

I just got this message:

"Not recoursing to Paypal is easier, as it will be up to my bank office to decide if my would be claim from tomorrow is legit or not : as your package was received enclosed within a Royal Mail plastig bag with a letter of apologies on the backside, i will have no problems to recover my funds in only 5 days ... in case your refuse a refund followed with an acceptation of your request for feedback reviewal."

So it turns out the UK Mail damaged it - fine, I will claim (I think I can for such a small amount).

So why would someone so experienced at collecting not recourse to this action:

Dear Rich

Your module got totally damaged on the way over so hasn't arrived in the condition you advertised it in.

I am going to reclaim the money from you and will go to my bank to do this. Here are some pictures of the damaged item so maybe you can claim back from the post office - in future, I would recommend putting cardboard in to try and prevent this happening.

Signed
the man in France

Is it that difficult or too much to expect?

I have asked for pictures so just hope I get them - I really don't mind him claiming if it is knackered but I don't accept that it is all down to me and that I am a NASTY GUY because of it.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:00 am 
 

Thanks Le Rahib, appreciated!

Just would like to avoid being out of pocket if I can.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:13 am 
 

Hi, unfortunately the guy is a Grade A arse. He'll shaft you on any sales, he has previously bid on an item of mine, but I just cancelled his bid and then placed him on my blocked bidders list.

Again, unfortunately it looks like you'll lose the sale price on this unless you can show ebay the obnoxious threatening emails he has sent. Obviously he was never on the VB, so ignore that and make sure you block this arse before he comes back for more.

I believe his girlfriend is also as mental and should go onto your list if you're still selling.

Good luck with your sales and hope you get to hang around here, even if you've sold everything.  :D


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:29 am 
 

Thanks Ashmire.....definitely a lesson learned.

I may be fortunate in that I think I can claim up to £41 on Airmail damages but not sure if I will need the pics to prove that. Yep, I have all his e-mails and sure that I can get the Neg FB removed at some point...not sure I really care about it too much if I'm honest. Could just do without the crap really!

Have blocked him, the g/f will be next!

  

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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:38 am 
 

Not withstanding this particular buyer, I would be very warey about ever selling anything to someone you do not know in France or Italy. Their postal systems are both notoriously corrupt with even things sent recorded delivery 'going missing' on a regular basis. You need to think of these countries the same way you think of sending to buyers in Turkey, Nigeria etc. In my experience, the overwhelming majority (maybe 70-80%) of 'problems' occur with French and Italian buyers and their postal services. So be warned!

For the sake of £12, I'd chalk it up to experience. Stick to the US/Canada/Australia if you're looking at international trade. It gets you over 99% of the available market anyways.


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:38 am 
 

Someone may recall the name, as they put themselves in the 'Introduce Yourself' thread, but I think their posts may have been removed when they turned mental there too... :roll:

EDIT - Found the threads, should take you straight to the relevant posts...  :lol:

viewtopic.php?p=145482&highlight=guydrinavalon#145482

viewtopic.php?p=145394&highlight=guydrinavalon#145394


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:24 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Not withstanding this particular buyer, I would be very warey about ever selling anything to someone you do not know in France or Italy. Their postal systems are both notoriously corrupt with even things sent recorded delivery 'going missing' on a regular basis.


The problem is that international signed for are not signed for services in France since the only signed for service we have here is "recommandé". Consequently, if you ship recorded, you will have no proof that the package has been delivered in France.
But actually, I didn't get any package lost by French postal service. So I guess that this is the buyers who are not very honest...
On thousand and thousand of transactions from overseas, I had only 2 packages that did not arrive and I am pretty sure that both wasn't send because final price was very very low (like 1$ for $100 items)

Please Ian, do not generalize to all French buyers, most of us are gentlemen (I do hope at least) ;)


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:34 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Their postal systems are both notoriously corrupt with even things sent recorded delivery 'going missing' on a regular basis. You need to think of these countries [France, Italy] the same way you think of sending to buyers in Turkey, Nigeria etc.


It is a bit harsh... Nigeria, really ?
:wink:

Anyway it is true that you can easily ignore these markets, one of the (true) problems is that our english is very bad. I think that you can deal more easily with people in Germany.

But it is a good opportunity for me to thank all the sellers, especially here, who dare ship to France !
Merci !

  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:11 pm 
 

I'm after a bit of advice here on a potentially shady dealer ...

So I win an auction for a dozen modules and when they arrive most of them are in poor condition - I'm taking about pages missing, pages present but all cut up, only two folds on a tri-fold, one all wrinkly with water damage etc... effectively over half of them are unusable.

The auction doesn't mention this but does say they're all "kept in plastic wrap".

so (via the paypal process) I ask for a partial refund as I didn't see the point in paying to send them back but get nowhere with the seller so I escalte to a claim and paypal sends me a messgae saying something like 'no problem - send the stuff back tracked and we'll refund you'.

Now I'm thinking ... hang on?  Do I have to pay postage twice for these items? Its international so expensive to the point of not worth it for the available refund.  So ... eventually I get to the point ... is this a scam ... seller sends a load of crap through knowing that the buyer is likely to cut their losses and have to keep it rather than send it back and have to pay all the postage?

Or, am I misunderstanding how this will work and will paypal somehow reinburse my extra postage costs?

Has anyone had this happen to them?  

I'm thinking that I just chalk it up to experience and let it go ... the tiny silver lining being the well justified neg.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:27 pm 
 

In general, you are out of luck.  Unless the seller agrees to reimburse you all shipping charges.  I have faced this a couple times in the past as well.  From a seller's standpoint, they take no real responsibility for the misrepresentation.  You end up getting stuck with the bad items or paying for shipping costs and have no items.  The seller gets the items back and is out nothing.

For a partial refund, I don't think Paypal does anything (its completely up to the buyer and seller to settle it).  I think you might be better off filing a chargeback on your credit card instead.

In any case, the seller deserves the negative feedback.

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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:30 pm 
 

That sucks. Was it from this seller's auctions, by chance?




** expired eBay auction **




As for return shipping, I think that you will get reimbursed for the whole amount you paid (incl the original shipping to you). So that in effect you will be paying for only the return shipping



edit: the one time I did the Ebay "not as described" claim (different than paypal claim?), the seller refunded the whole amount to me incl the shipping. I assumed that the seller had to refund the entire transaction, and not be able to alter the final amount refunded.


Last edited by misterspock on Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  

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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:32 pm 
 

Anklestab wrote:I have asked for pictures so just hope I get them - I really don't mind him claiming if it is knackered but I don't accept that it is all down to me and that I am a NASTY GUY because of it.


If you sold it on Ebay, then yes it really is all down to you - read Ebay Policy.  A lot of sellers like to put claims into their auctions about damage or loss during shipping isn't their responsibility blah blah blah but if you sold it on Ebay or accepted payment through Paypal then yes it is the seller's responsibility.

If you don't want any more negative experiences on Ebay or feedback, then you really do need to have good packaging and shipping practices.  No cardboard in with a module is just tempting fate.  I try and box just about everything and if it is going into a padded envelope then it has lots of cardboard.

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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:44 pm 
 

misterspock wrote:edit: the one time I did the Ebay "not as described" claim (different than paypal claim?), the seller refunded the whole amount to me incl the shipping. I assumed that the seller had to refund the entire transaction, and not be able to alter the final amount refunded.


That is nice of the seller (and shows that the seller is taking responsibility for the mistake) but I don't think it is a standard.  I don't think Ebay even has any policy about having the seller do any kind of reinbursement at all - although I am not familiar with the newer Ebay version of "not as described".

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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:49 pm 
 

le Rahib wrote:But it is a good opportunity for me to thank all the sellers, especially here, who dare ship to France !


I've shipped a couple dozen packages to both France and Italy over the years and all have been delivered safe and sound.  Actually, out of the few thousand packages I have shipped out, not a single one has not been delivered (that includes some going to Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Portugal, Spain, etc as well.).

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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:00 pm 
 

Yep, I guess I just don't sell enough to know what is 'safe' shipping & packing practices. I know that £1.75 for module postage seems pretty much covering just the cost for jiffy and item weight and it just didn't cross my mind to put anything extra in there - I taped it heavily around the edges to prevent bending.

Whilst it might be my responsibility, I don't see anything here to indicate that me packing it in 15 cardboard boxes and surrounding it with barbed wire would have prevented this dispute happening (might have increased the postage a little).

If something goes wrong then I would expect to be given the chance to put it right. Filing a negative on me and then sending abusive e-mails indicates to me that this isn't quite what it seems. What proof does he have to provide - to me - to show that what happened did happen? I think this guy picks occasional sellers - easy to spot from stars - and then pounces on them should they leave him positive feedback first.

His tactic was blatantly to neg me, send me an abusive e-mail and then use that as the leverage to get me to refund him.

Look at these statements:

You have a problem :
* in case i revise my feedback, i'm not sure you will refund me
* in case you refund me firstly, you would not be sure i will accept to revise my feedback

So, choose :
* a refund followed by a feedback revisal
OR
* a credit card chargeback tomorrow with £6 Paypal chargeback fees

"Think about it : you have until tomorrow in the morning, as i have already called my bank office for a rendez-vous at 11.15 A.M."

So whilst I might accept that shipping with cardboard is a better option - although i think it would increase the p&p - I don't accept that it would have avoided this problem

  

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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:00 pm 
 

How people deal with each other is one matter and some people are hot headed.  Some people (even here) make wild accusations with no basis or proof just because someone doesn't share the same opinion.  In general you hope that people are good and honest (and I believe most people are).  So, if someone complains that it isn't in the condition they expect then hopefully it isn't.  By the sounds of it, shipping a NM module in a jiffy probably didn't have much of a chance of arriving in NM.  If the item got sold to someone who just wanted to use it then you are probably fine.  If it was shipped to a collector, then its a problem.

Its not a high price item so if the buyer complains, chances are its legit.  From what you describe the buyer has not been the easiest to work with but it doesn't mean that you as the seller shouldn't make things right.  Without any proof of damage from the buyer, you know if you shipped it in an envelope without cardboard through international shipping.  Flat out, there is very little chance a NM item makes it safely there in NM in the packaging you describe.

Its an interesting situation with the feedback though.

1. If you decide not to do any kind of refund, then the negative feedback is probably legit and deserved (although premature).  You know how you shipped it and now know that it probably didn't arrive safely and didn't do anything about it.  End result is what it should be.

2. If you do decide to do something, then hopefully feedback will change, etc - but we won't know this outcome until later.

A lot of it depends on what you are comfortable with.  Most of these situations say a lot about not only the buyer but also the seller.

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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:23 pm 
 

Anklestab, Mars is giving you some excellent advice.  Most people are honest, and now you learned a little bit more about how to pack items and what to expect from eBay/Paypal.  

Most all of us here have been ripped off by someone from time to time, and most all of us have made mistakes.  If you go into eBay thinking there's a way to never get ripped, that's impossible.  But there are lots of things I have learned from this community which have made my selling experiences a lot better, and I just factor in that every hundred transactions or so I'm going have problem(s).  It comes with the territory, and I usually just refund quickly and with smile and go on.

I must also say that I have shipped many items to France and never had a problem.  I used to ship to Italy, had success with several items, and then several shipments didn't go well so I decided that was enough.   8)


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