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Post Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:26 pm 
 

Jon Barrett - I am sure that at the time, you and many other people here had the exact same response to telephone calls to the phone number provided by eBay. I would also imagine many people received the same nil response to mail. That said, I do know that someone WAS responding to e-mails up until a few weeks beofre his account was terminated because I bought some 40 or 50 Planescape items in one go, and I had a debate with the guy over him wanting to withdraw from the transaction. His excuse at that time was that whilst his auctions accepted personal cheques he could not wait for a cheque from me and eBay had already charged him the fees for the sale and he claimed he couldn't cover the fees without me paying with PayPal immediately and wouldn't accept a cheque. Now, if you have confirmation that Jon Barrett is real, and resides at his then given address, then please clarify this. Either way, he ceased all communication with me after his eBay account was suspended. As I'm sure you are aware, if you send money to an account that does not exist, it remains unclaimed and is then cancelled. If you phone PayPal and ask about an unclaimed payment, they will confirm whether or not the account exicts. If you don't believe me, try it.

Lisa's Stuff - I will go back through my history and see, but I really don't think eBay keep a log of correspondence that long. And again, I doubt I'm the only one who asked if she was the same person, and I'm sure she was polite in responding to all of us.

Chargebacks - No, your premis is that chargeback only becomes theft if you can't make restitution in the event that the package arrives. Am I right? That IS what you're saying, isn't it.

The one thing I did learm from my encounters with Jonb and his subsequent disappearing act is that the bad guy doesn't always win. Whilst I did end up better off from my encounter with Jonb, I have not bought anything from Lisa. And, yes, I do advocate taking militant action against people who persistantly screw the buying public.

But to put this in perspective, I have 'lost' more stuff in the mail to various countries around the world as a seller than I have ever had go missing when I've bought stuff on eBay. I do not assume that these buyers are lying or stealing from me, and I refund in good faith. I have never had an item that has gone missing get delivered eventually, and never had a refund returned to me. I am not about to label any of my customers a thief. If something goes missing or is delayed excessively, I'll take that up with the company I'm paying to deliver the goods. Not the customer. Now, if a customer contacts me and offers to return my money I'll accept it, but then I am at the end of the telephone and address I post on eBay and my PayPal account is at the end of my PayPal ID. I won't answer the phone telling peope to stop calling, there isn't anyone here called X, and I'll write back or phone a customer who took the trouble to write to me.


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Post Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:45 pm 
 

Ian's right on all counts. You do whatever it takes to correct the situation. Failure to do so is why our country is such a pit.
I have no issues with conning/frauding a known thief, and I feel pity for anyone who isn't strong-willed or moral enough to do so. I attribute it to the general sheepishness and weakness of character endemic to our society.


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Post Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 7:04 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Jon Barrett - I am sure that at the time, you and many other people here had the exact same response to telephone calls to the phone number provided by eBay. I would also imagine many people received the same nil response to mail. That said, I do know that someone WAS responding to e-mails up until a few weeks beofre his account was terminated because I bought some 40 or 50 Planescape items in one go, and I had a debate with the guy over him wanting to withdraw from the transaction. His excuse at that time was that whilst his auctions accepted personal cheques he could not wait for a cheque from me and eBay had already charged him the fees for the sale and he claimed he couldn't cover the fees without me paying with PayPal immediately and wouldn't accept a cheque. Now, if you have confirmation that Jon Barrett is real, and resides at his then given address, then please clarify this. Either way, he ceased all communication with me after his eBay account was suspended. As I'm sure you are aware, if you send money to an account that does not exist, it remains unclaimed and is then cancelled. If you phone PayPal and ask about an unclaimed payment, they will confirm whether or not the account exicts. If you don't believe me, try it.

No, I never called him since I had no reason to even try to.  I would never put myself in the position to have to deal with a known scumbag in the first place.  Some poor bastards dealt with him without knowing and they did so at their own peril and some got porked.  I can't blame them for that.  

There were quite a few people who knew exactly who they were dealing with when they did so.  Some did so and paid for the items and supported the endeavors of a known scum bag(which is a separate issue altogether), others did so with absolutely no intention of ever paying for the the item(s) and stole from him, thus becoming thieves themselves. Again, the world isn't down one thief, it's up one.  I fail to see how that's somehow a good thing.


And to be clear it's Jon Bassett.  And the item you stole from him was RD1- Tale from the Ruby Dragon.

mbassoc2003 wrote:Lisa's Stuff - I will go back through my history and see, but I really don't think eBay keep a log of correspondence that long. And again, I doubt I'm the only one who asked if she was the same person, and I'm sure she was polite in responding to all of us.


Okay.  Regardless of whther you can find it or not, two points still stand:

A)  You have openly stated that you know that they are one in the same, yet you still haven't paid restitution to them for the item you didn't pay for.  How come?

B)  They have nothing to gain by admitting openly that they were a previous seller booted from Ebay, because by doing so will get them booted from Ebay immediately.

mbassoc2003 wrote:Chargebacks - No, your premis is that chargeback only becomes theft if you can't make restitution in the event that the package arrives. Am I right? That IS what you're saying, isn't it.[/

It's not.  My argument revolves around paying for the items that you receive, it has nothing to do with chargebacks at all.  A chargeback is simply a tools for a thief to steal from people that he never had any intention of paying for the item in the first place(see cougarrinard and his multiple chargebacks on M-bags as Exhibit A of this).  Not all  chargebacks is stealing, nor is all stealing related to chargebacks.

mbassoc2003 wrote:The one thing I did learm from my encounters with Jonb and his subsequent disappearing act is that the bad guy doesn't always win. Whilst I did end up better off from my encounter with Jonb, I have not bought anything from Lisa. And, yes, I do advocate taking militant action against people who persistantly screw the buying public.


How about actually giving law enforcement a chance to actually do something first rather than just become a thief too.  And again I guess since you think its okay too, it's also okay to steal from you too, right?

mbassoc2003 wrote:But to put this in perspective, I have 'lost' more stuff in the mail to various countries around the world as a seller than I have ever had go missing when I've bought stuff on eBay.   I do not assume that these buyers are lying or stealing from me, and I refund in good faith. I have never had an item that has gone missing get delivered eventually, and never had a refund returned to me. I am not about to label any of my customers a thief.


I remember not so long ago that you were absolutely fuming over a White Dwarf Archive that a buyer filed a claim against you for that you claimed they stole from you. How is that different?


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Post Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 7:05 pm 
 

RaisedFromTheDead wrote:Ian's right on all counts. You do whatever it takes to correct the situation. Failure to do so is why our country is such a pit.
I have no issues with conning/frauding a known thief, and I feel pity for anyone who isn't strong-willed or moral enough to do so. I attribute it to the general sheepishness and weakness of character endemic to our society.


:lol:


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Post Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:50 pm 
 

:lol:


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Post Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:13 am 
 

The Jonb Incident - Thank-you for jogging my memory there. That's been a great trip fown memory lane. The entire transaction with Jonb is a matter of record in this nice little 4 page thread on Acaeum from May 2005 ....

http://www.acaeum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2074&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

As you can see, I sought the forum's advice at the time as I was a relative newbie back then, and Jonb voluntarily refunded me the transaction before F'ing off and screwing everyone else. I guess corresponding with him extensively did pay off and he felt some form of need to do good by me.

Chargebacks - There were lots of us from Acaeum who took the chance and bought from Jonb. I seem to remember numbered copies of Kobold Hall and Blasted Lands being bought by boards members at the time. And I'm sure when it all went tits up, I'm not the only one to have tried to recover their money through their credit card or PayPal. The fact that I had built up a rapport with Jonb through extensive e-mail correspondence months before, and my item eventually arrived does not make me any more a thief than anyone else. The only difference is that I admitted the item arrived and tried to repay for it. That is EXACTLY what you did with you're buyer, and the above thread shows no intent at the time to steal from him, which is what you accuse me of.
bclarkie wrote:...others did so with absolutely no intention of ever paying for the the item(s) and stole from him.


Lisa's Stuff - Whilst I may be as convinced as anyone else here that Lisa is Jonb, I'm not stupid enough to to go and mail her money without corroberation of her identity or address. As regards my questions to her, I do believe they may have been posted openly on the auctions themselves. They were provavly a matter of public record at the time.

Law Enforcement - As I'm sure you are aware from you're own country, Law Enforcement will not record or investigate online instances of fraud reported to them bu the public. They refer you to your bank or credit card issuer. If Law Enforcement in the US does spend it's time recording and investigating stuff like this, that explains how the US has such a bad record in dealing with crime and highest levels of crime in the world. In the UK these sorts of things do not take up Law Enforcement time. They are left to be sorted out by the financial companies and persons involved and it works just fine and leaves our Law Enforcement to deal with more serious matters than a bunch of guys on eBay.

White Dwarf - Yes, I had a guy buy and item from me, complain it had not been delivered, and ask for a replacement to be sent, whic I did. He subsequently received both items and then stopped responding to e-mails etc. He got two for the price of one, and I had no claim through the Royal Mail because he had signed for both. Whilst I cannot blame him for the delay, he was not honest enough to admit what happened and return the goods. He simply disappeared.

The differences are honesty and integrity. In all instances, I have been honest, open and transparent about my eBay dealings, to the extent of going into unnecessary levels of detail here in public, and under your scrutiny (and others) to assuage my critics. I am not the one in any of these instances who has done a disappearing act, given fake names and addressed with the intent to commit fraud, and then F'd off and refused to respond to anyone's mail or e-mails. Everyone knows who I am, where I am and how to get in touch with me.



You're moral compass is a bit F'd up here, Brian, and your tirade and focus are misplaced. You're rants and accusations are beginning to undermine you're credibility as a moral crusader. One which some people here, myself included, have appreciated over the years.


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Post Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:52 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:The Jonb Incident - Thank-you for jogging my memory there. That's been a great trip fown memory lane. The entire transaction with Jonb is a matter of record in this nice little 4 page thread on Acaeum from May 2005 ....

http://www.acaeum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2074&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

As you can see, I sought the forum's advice at the time as I was a relative newbie back then, and Jonb voluntarily refunded me the transaction before F'ing off and screwing everyone else. I guess corresponding with him extensively did pay off and he felt some form of need to do good by me.

I already knew about this thread.  It's the reason I brought it up in the first place.

Funny though, you tell a slightly different story here:

viewtopic.php?t=34&highlight=ruby+dragon

mbassoc2003 wrote:I got some nice rares off him last time for free. The guy was a real gem. I tried to pay the guy and he'd shut up shop. I even e-mailed him offering to pay but he seemed to want me to keep the stuff for free. A real sweet deal. Anyone remember Tales of the Ruby Dragon?It came from Jonb.


mbassoc2003 wrote:Chargebacks - There were lots of us from Acaeum who took the chance and bought from Jonb. I seem to remember numbered copies of Kobold Hall and Blasted Lands being bought by boards members at the time. And I'm sure when it all went tits up, I'm not the only one to have tried to recover their money through their credit card or PayPal. The fact that I had built up a rapport with Jonb through extensive e-mail correspondence months before, and my item eventually arrived does not make me any more a thief than anyone else. The only difference is that I admitted the item arrived and tried to repay for it. That is EXACTLY what you did with you're buyer, and the above thread shows no intent at the time to steal from him, which is what you accuse me of.

So you've shifted again :lol:

And am I supposed to forget that you wrote this too in the jonb thread:

mbassoc2003 wrote:So, did anyone take my advice and rip the guy off before he started stiffing everone else?



And:

mbassoc2003 wrote:Buy.
Wait 14 days.
Chargeback sighting writing on the wall and non-delivery.

If the item turns up, offer to pay for the goods. If she's gone by then, hay-ho. I'm sure she'll ask for the money if she wants it.


There was also private conversations that went around during his short reign as jonb(or one of the others) about stealing from him of which I resisted it back then too.


mbassoc2003 wrote:Law Enforcement - As I'm sure you are aware from you're own country, Law Enforcement will not record or investigate online instances of fraud reported to them bu the public. They refer you to your bank or credit card issuer.


Umm, no this is completely false, at least in the US.  You may run into some cops who aren't interested in doing follow up who will try to push back, but if you want to file a report they have to take it.  It might not lead to anything initially, however if the PD in his area starts getting flooded with reports about a guy ripping people off, they'll be compelled to investigate it.  There have been quite a few Ebay scammers that have gotten busted for selling items and not delivering goods, i.e

http://www.google.com/search?q=Ebay+sca ... =firefox-a

It's all about the diligence of the victims which from what I can tell thus far has been minimal at best.

mbassoc2003 wrote:If Law Enforcement in the US does spend it's time recording and investigating stuff like this, that explains how the US has such a bad record in dealing with crime and highest levels of crime in the world.

This is some quality right here.  I love it when people make shit up and try to pass it off as factual.  But really makes this in special is the reason you do it with this follow up sentence in order to try and make it a catch 22:

mbassoc2003 wrote:In the UK these sorts of things do not take up Law Enforcement time. They are left to be sorted out by the financial companies and persons involved and it works just fine and leaves our Law Enforcement to deal with more serious matters than a bunch of guys on eBay.


So the police in the UK don't investigate thefts(both petty and grand) and online fraud too?  Ummm, really?  And you're trying to say that the police in the US are poor? :lol:

mbassoc2003 wrote:White Dwarf - Yes, I had a guy buy and item from me, complain it had not been delivered, and ask for a replacement to be sent, whic I did. He subsequently received both items and then stopped responding to e-mails etc. He got two for the price of one, and I had no claim through the Royal Mail because he had signed for both. Whilst I cannot blame him for the delay, he was not honest enough to admit what happened and return the goods. He simply disappeared.


Maybe he read somewhere that you ripped someone else off and so he decided to use your very own way of making things right by ripping off a thief too?

mbassoc2003 wrote:The differences are honesty and integrity. In all instances, I have been honest, open and transparent about my eBay dealings, to the extent of going into unnecessary levels of detail here in public, and under your scrutiny (and others) to assuage my critics.


Oh there is no doubt at first you had no issues admitting to and even being gleeful in knowing that you stole from the guy so much so that you encourage others to do so too.   After that, it has been a barrage of strawman arguments, misrepresentation of the facts and revisionist history.

As far as having integrity, you guys must have a different definition over then they we do here, because advocating stealing from anyone is about as far away from having integrity as possible.


mbassoc2003 wrote:I am not the one in any of these instances who has done a disappearing act, given fake names and addressed with the intent to commit fraud, and then F'd off and refused to respond to anyone's mail or e-mails. Everyone knows who I am, where I am and how to get in touch with me.

You do realize that there is more than one way to be a scumbag right?

Some of the worlds biggest scumbags have been upfront and in people's face about it.  You're visibility or lack there have absolutely nothing to do with anything other then your visibility.  


mbassoc2003 wrote:You're moral compass is a bit F'd up here, Brian, and your tirade and focus are misplaced.

Not at all.  My morals are perfectly placed here.  I am quite capable of wanting to see this scammer go down and doing what I can to help out with that without having to resort to becoming the very same thing that I'm trying to bring down.   Read my sig, it's VERY applicable to this situation.

I've already said it before in this thread, but I'll say it again.  Stealing from a thief doesn't rid the world of 1 thief, it means there is now 2 thieves in the world.


mbassoc2003 wrote:You're rants and accusations are beginning to undermine you're credibility as a moral crusader.  One which some people here, myself included, have appreciated over the years.

I've heard this before, from the likes of many of the worst who have ever visited this forum. I am completely unaffected by it.  I wouldn't consider putting you in the same class with those guys Ian, but you're wrong here.  I can't make it any more clear than that.


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Post Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:44 am 
 

Okay, I'm not gonna do the line by line thing, 'cos this is taking up way too much time it's getting silly. But the facts in the case are a matter of record. Yes I got something for free. Yes I tried to track the guy down. Yes I tried to pay the guy. He F'd off and that does not make me a thief.

The phrase "he seemed to want me to keep it for free" was a humerous reflection on the situation. I'm sure it reads that way having read it again. I'm also sure that some 5 years after the event the exact order in which the pursuit of Jonb is not fresh in my mind. The fact that I recorded the events as they unfolded at the time, and did not remember that that thread existed in subsequent posts on the matter does not change the facts of the case. I bought, I paid, he went tits up, he refunded, the item arrived some 8 weeks late, I offered to pay, he'd f'd off. That does not make me a thief. I think you're branding of me a thief is morally flawed here.

Now, the fact that I changed my moral stance on Jonb following the way he dealt with people (bearing in mind that this was my first encounter with the guy), and the fact that I happenned to see my situation as a winning one; does not make me a thief. It may mean I have a different opinion to you, but it does not make me a thief.

And the fact that my moral opinion is such that, like some others, I consider it acceptable to screw the guy before he screws others, and that I explore or advocate the use of this type of militant vigilate type of action, does not make me a thief. It may make ma a supporter or proponent of 'theft' but I have not taken action against Lisa's eBay offerings as, whilst I have all the evidence I am ever likely to receive, I have not managed to convince anyone to provide me with a name, address or phone number for them. I cannot corroberate the belief that they are one and the same.

At very best, you can alledge that Jonb abandoned his funds and I have been public in my statement that I still hold them. Regardless, after all your hot air and moral peacocking, I fail to see what I did that was either thieving or morally wrong. I bought from him in good faith. I had a good rapport with the guy by e-mail. He f'd off and screwed a lot of buyers and I view my situation as a win. You confessed yourself to having done exactly the same thing. Explain where the theft occurred and how that action was perpetrated by me.


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Post Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:51 am 
 

I tell my wife constantly that she will never win an Internet argument.
I've had personal dealings with Ian, in situations where he certainly had the opportunity to try and stiff me, and he has been exemplary. I don't believe for a minute he would intentionally screw anyone. As for what happened with jonb/lisa/whatever the fuck it calls itself, good for Ian! I'd have done the same. It really is the only way to deal with shitbirds.


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Post Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:01 am 
 

I'll make this short:

mbassoc2003 wrote:Now, the fact that I changed my moral stance on Jonb following the way he dealt with people (bearing in mind that this was my first encounter with the guy), and the fact that I happenned to see my situation as a winning one; does not make me a thief. It may mean I have a different opinion to you, but it does not make me a thief.

Regardless of the previous situation, if you steal from people(no matter who they are), it makes you a thief.

You've advocated other people to  steal from people.  There is no moral or ethical high ground to be had.

It's that simple.

mbassoc2003 wrote:And the fact that my moral opinion is such that, like some others, I consider it acceptable to screw the guy before he screws others, and that I explore or advocate the use of this type of militant vigilate type of action, does not make me a thief.

See above.

What's really funny is that no one has actually taken any legit legal action thus far as it is, so this supposed necessary millitant action isn't even founded on the premise that the authorities(and no Ebay is not an authority of anything other than their own pocketbook) thus far haven't dealt with the issue.


mbassoc2003 wrote:It may make ma a supporter or proponent of 'theft' but I have not taken action against Lisa's eBay offerings as, whilst I have all the evidence I am ever likely to receive, I have not managed to convince anyone to provide me with a name, address or phone number for them. I cannot corroberate the belief that they are one and the same. At very best, you can alledge that Jonb abandoned his funds and I have been public in my statement that I still hold them. Regardless, after all your hot air and moral peacocking, I fail to see what I did that was either thieving or morally wrong. I bought from him in good faith. I had a good rapport with the guy by e-mail. He f'd off and screwed a lot of buyers and I view my situation as a win.

Your very own words prior to this turn indicate quite clearly that you viewed what you did previously as theft.  Those are your words, not mine.  Only now after this go around with me have you tried to spin it like you're innocent and tried your best to pay for the item.

mbassoc2003 wrote:You confessed yourself to having done exactly the same thing. Explain where the theft occurred and how that action was perpetrated by me.


I paid for the items that I've received, you haven't and really have no intention of ever doing so, despite your own hot air and moral peacocking.  It's not that complicated.


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Post Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:09 am 
 

RaisedFromTheDead wrote:I've had personal dealings with Ian, in situations where he certainly had the opportunity to try and stiff me, and he has been exemplary.

And so have I, what's your point?  Because he didn't rip you off in the past makes any other current and future action, regardless of what they are, a-okay?

I like Ian, but what he's espousing here is theft.  You can try and paint however you want, it's still theft.

RaisedFromTheDead wrote: I don't believe for a minute he would intentionally screw anyone.


Ian's own words Frank, not mine:

mbassoc2003 wrote:So, did anyone take my advice and rip the guy off before he started stiffing everone else?


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Post Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:25 pm 
 

1. Sorry, Brian, but you seem to have stooped to BS now. I have never said that I believe my actions were theft. Those are your accusations. I may consider it a win, but if you go back 5 years to the incident thread you flagged up, you'll see that I tried to pay for the goods. There was no intent to steal, and you and I both know that the guy's phone number and address were either bogus, or made out to be bogus by the owner after everything went tits up.

You and I both know his accounts were terminated and his e-mail address was fake. If you didn't bother to check any of those things out at the time, you clearly weren't all that interested in bringing down this scumbag as you so righteously claim.

2. Advocating theft from a thief is not theft. It is a staement and a moral position, not an action. Just as advocating speeding in a motor vehicle is not a speeding offence. I stole nothing. If anything, I am holding funds for an individual who refuses to claim them. At best, I am openly admitting to and offering a banking service to some AH who left me holding his money when he F'd off. You're consideration of this as theft is quite contemptable and seriously morally F'd up. If you are so righteous and morally judicious, why not get off your arse and provide the details by which I can repay these funds to their owner. Let's see you do better.

3. I, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, have complained to eBay and asked them to investigate the link between Lisa and the previous fraudsters. That is as far as I can go legally, and as our moral crusader on this board, I'm sure you have taken steps to pursue the fraudster yourself. Or is it a case that you just spout off your opinions and moral judgements, and don't actually get off your high horse and do anything there either?

Why not come clean and let us all know what you know about this person and how to get ahold of them?

We all await with baited breath.....


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Post Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:56 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:If you didn't bother to check any of those things out at the time, you clearly weren't all that interested in bringing down this scumbag as you so righteously claim.1. Sorry, Brian, but you seem to have stooped to BS now. I have never said that I believe my actions were theft. Those are your accusations. I may consider it a win, but if you go back 5 years to the incident thread you flagged up, you'll see that I tried to pay for the goods. There was no intent to steal, and you and I both know that the guy's phone number and address were either bogus, or made out to be bogus by the owner after everything went tits up.

Again Ian your very own words clearly indicate your intent. It's a plain as day.

mbassoc2003 wrote:You and I both know his accounts were terminated and his e-mail address was fake.   If you didn't bother to check any of those things out at the time, you clearly weren't all that interested in bringing down this scumbag as you so righteously claim.

Wait, his email address was fake now?  Then how again did you correspond with him so often through a fake email address that you've claimed to have done?


mbassoc2003 wrote:If you didn't bother to check any of those things out at the time, you clearly weren't all that interested in bringing down this scumbag as you so righteously claim.2. Advocating theft from a thief is not theft. It is a staement and a moral position, not an action.

Theft is theft, period. And I'm the one who has been MOST on top of this clowns antics for many years now.  I know more about him then I've even posted here.  

Beyond that, here's a question for you of which I know you'll avoid like the ones about if it's okay to steal from you now, but if jonb himself came onto this forum again and stated that he has done what he has done in the past because there some Ebayers back 6 years years ago that stole from him.

Would that somehow make it all okay now for you?  

I mean he's just stealing from others because others have stolen from him, it's now all good, right?



mbassoc2003 wrote:Just as advocating speeding in a motor vehicle is not a speeding offence. I stole nothing. If anything, I am holding funds for an individual who refuses to claim them. At best, I am openly admitting to and offering a banking service to some AH who left me holding his money when he F'd off. You're consideration of this as theft is quite contemptable and seriously morally F'd up. If you are so righteous and morally judicious, why not get off your arse and provide the details by which I can repay these funds to their owner. Let's see you do better.

It's not my job to make an effort for you to pay someone who owe money to.  Even if we already didn't know who this person currently was, you'd just make up another excuse to not pay, like you've already done so many times in the past.


mbassoc2003 wrote:3. I, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, have complained to eBay and asked them to investigate the link between Lisa and the previous fraudsters. That is as far as I can go legally, and as our moral crusader on this board, I'm sure you have taken steps to pursue the fraudster yourself. Or is it a case that you just spout off your opinions and moral judgements, and don't actually get off your high horse and do anything there either?

Ebay is not the law.  Ebay is Ebay and has only their own interests at stake.  I've made many reports with Ebay with respect to this individual.

Regardless, I have no actual "claim" against this individual as they have never stolen anything from me.  I could go into a police station or contact the FBI, but without being one of the folks who have actually been scammed, I haven't a legal leg to stand on.  I personally have no case.


mbassoc2003 wrote:Why not come clean and let us all know what you know about this person and how to get ahold of them?

We all await with baited breath.....


Who is this "we" you refer to? I thought this was a discussion between you and I?

And I do have some other information about this individual that I haven't shared yet for a multitude of reasons of which I will not go into.  

Regardless, it's 100% completely irrelevant as to what you're advocating.


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Post Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:20 pm 
 

Jonb's e-mail address posted on his PayPal transaction was a dead end. Fake, Nil response. No such PayPal account. Unclaimed funds. I e-mailed Mr B for about a month on a yahoo address that was never responded to after his account was closed.
bclarkie wrote:Theft is theft, period.

Speeding is speeding regardless od what you call it or how you get there. There are stacks of AHs in the US who have been speeding in their Lexus's and Toyota's who should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law for speeding offences and presumably reckless endangerment of their kids, because their car 'chose' to accelerate while they were driving. Is that how your logic works? Your moral world and ideology are seriously flawed, Brian.
bclarkie wrote:'s not my job to make an effort for you to pay someone who owe money to.  Even if we already didn't know who this person currently was, you'd just make up another excuse to not pay, like you've already done so many times in the past.

If you really think I give ash't about some $60, you are measuring my need and desire for money against some other scale. It's not mine. I don't need money that bad. I donate more than double that each month to various organisations that interest me. Now if $60 is an amount of money you consider worth fretting over, then so be it. I'm not saying it's not any less that anyone else's $60. But for God's sake, it's just $60. It's peanuts. If he wants it he can have it. I don't give a F.
bclarkie wrote:Again Ian your very own words clearly indicate your intent. It's a plain as day.

I'm sorry, my command of the English language is failing me at this point. Please elaborate and explain how you came to this conclusion based on what I've been saying.
bclarkie wrote:Theft is theft, period. And I'm the one who has been MOST on top of this clowns antics for many years now. I know more about him then I've even posted here.

Prove it. I see no further information contributed to the forum. I see nothing that identifies anyone or how to get in touch with them. It's all very well to say, "I know this, I know that, but it's not my responsibility to take action or assist others in taking action. " But that completely undermines your moral superiority here, and your claim that you know more about this clown and have been on his case for years. Quit squirming and put up, or shut up.


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Post Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:58 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Jonb's e-mail address posted on his PayPal transaction was a dead end. Fake, Nil response. No such PayPal account. Unclaimed funds. I e-mailed Mr B for about a month on a yahoo address that was never responded to after his account was closed.


You didn't answer my question, so I'll ask it again.  How did you correspond with him through a fake email address?

mbassoc2003 wrote:Speeding is speeding regardless od what you call it or how you get there. There are stacks of AHs in the US who have been speeding in their Lexus's and Toyota's who should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law for speeding offences and presumably reckless endangerment of their kids, because their car 'chose' to accelerate while they were driving. Is that how your logic works? Your moral world and ideology are seriously flawed, Brian.


What in the world are you talking about and why are you trying to change the subject?  At what point was this discussion ever about speeding and further, at what point have I advocated that people should get away with it or not?

And what in the world does it have to with stealing and jonb?

Other than of course attempting to change the topic at hand?

mbassoc2003 wrote:I'm sorry, my command of the English language is failing me at this point. Please elaborate and explain how you came to this conclusion based on what I've been saying.


Well lets see.

You've stolen from him and made it quite clear just how happy you were about it, so much so that you've advocated others following suit.   And to reiterate, this isn't the first time this idea has been bandied about, although previously it was done privately.

What exactly is that I'm missing here?

mbassoc2003 wrote:Prove it. I see no further information contributed to the forum. I see nothing that identifies anyone or how to get in touch with them. It's all very well to say, "I know this, I know that, but it's not my responsibility to take action or assist others in taking action.

If I knew enough to something other than scare him away, I;d have shared it. What I have right now isn't anywhere near enough that's actionable.

mbassoc2003 wrote:But that completely undermines your moral superiority here, and your claim that you know more about this clown and have been on his case for years. Quit squirming and put up, or shut up.


Good grief, this nonsense again?  How exactly does this undermine this supposed moral authority that keep droning on about?  Aside from the fact that I've claimed no such authority at all, other than to call stealing from someone theft, it's pretty damn funny how you keep trying to undermine it.  

It's like you know that you're wrong and you just desperately want to try and ad hominem your way out of it.


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Post Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:09 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:You didn't answer my question, so I'll ask it again.  How did you correspond with him through a fake email address?

Wow. Read the answer. I e-mailed Jonb through a Yahoo e-mail account he was operating. For about a month prior to buying RD1, initiated by an incident when I attempted to buy some 30 or 40, mainly Planescape, items all in one go. That e-mail address was termianated or not replied to when he ceased dealing with all the muppets on eBay. The e-mail address posted on his PayPal account, was not the e-mail address that ID'd his PayPal account, and was not a legitimate e-mail address. Why the hell do you think you you have the moral superiority or right to scrutinise my every word. Are you accusing me of lying yet again? Where is all this knowledge you claim to have, because you seem to be just [email protected] your way along now?
bclarkie wrote:What in the world are you talking about and why are you trying to change the subject? At what point was this discussion ever about speeding and further, at what point have I advocated that people should get away with it or not?

It's called 'comparison'. You claim that theft is theft regardless of how you end up with someone elses property. By your logic therefor, speeding is speeding. I was drawing a comparison, not changing the subject. You seem to be losing your grasp of English now, or clutching at straws. Are you saying that theft is theft regardless of how you end up with someone elses property, but that is only applicable to the crime of theft, and all other crimes have special dispensation? It's a comparison. I was pointing out the flaw in your philosophy. You seem to think only crimes Bclarkie deem to pass judgement on are crimes, regardless of any willingness to back your accusations up with either facts or and explanation of where it is deemed a crime in law. There is no law against being left holding someone's money, even if under Bclarkie Law it's stealing.
bclarkie wrote:You've stolen from him and made it quite clear just how happy you were about it, so much so that you've advocated others following suit. And to reiterate, this isn't the first time this idea has been bandied about.

You seem to have again missed the question. I wrote it carefully and tried to be clear, but maybe you are now avoiding answering the question deliberately or feigning ignorance.

At what point did I say that I had stolen anything, or that I considered what occurred between Jonb and I as theft? What string of words or sentence contains that information?

You have accused me of theft and stated that I admit that I have stolen goods, but you will not answer the question and are dancing around the issue. There is a fundimental difference between advocating an action and taking an action. There is also a fundimental difference between being pleased at the way a course of events unfolds, especially when you come off the better for it, and of deliberately taking action with the intent of commiting a crime. I followed the advice I received some six weeks after I had purchased the goods, and that advice was given to me in good faith by honest members of Acaeum who were offering what I still consider to be sound advice. When I was a newbie and I was worried about being screwed by Jonb, I didn't see you coming forward and saying, "Don't worry, this is how you deal with the situation." For you to go back through history and label those actions theft is both erroneous, somewhat dishonest and downright reprehensible.

bclarkie wrote:Good grief, this nonsense again? How exactly does this undermine this supposed moral authority that keep droning on about?

Oops! My English again. Too many complex sentence structures, or too much assumption on my part that I didn't need to explain things in detail. We all assume ('take ownership of' not 'guess at') a moral position and a level of authority when we post in open forum. It is impled by our words and the tone in which we write, and yours is one of authority and judgemental superiority. It is not 'claimed' in a declaration, but 'claimed' by virtue or our action in posts and responses.

By labeling me a thief you state your moral position. By then responding to the facts in the case and further finding your own evidence from Acaeum's history that I had forgotten was there, by ignoring that both sets of facts corroberate eachother, and the laying down your moral principle that I am still a thief because unlike you I have not managed to track down Jonb, you are assuming a position of moral superiority and exacting a judgement that I am a thief regardless of my intentions to return a payment.

Finally, you state that I am a thief because I have not taken suffiecient steps to find and repay Jonb, yet you yourself claim to be the person who knows most about this "clown scum bag", and you yourself will not provide any information to allow me find the gentleman, either because you do not have such information or will not pass it along. If you do not have sufficient information about the gentleman's identity, you are undermining you're claimed authority because you yourself cannot find him and you live in the same damn country as the guy, and if you do have the information, you undermine your claimed moral authority by not passing it along.

Whilst I am willing to continue this debate on our moral positions, it will become tedious and futile if I need to contine elaborating and explaining English sentence structure and meanings. I cannot be the only one who understood the English that I wrote.


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Post Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:38 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Wow. Read the answer. I e-mailed Jonb through a Yahoo e-mail account he was operating. For about a month prior to buying RD1, initiated by an incident when I attempted to buy some 30 or 40, mainly Planescape, items all in one go. That e-mail address was termianated or not replied to when he ceased dealing with all the muppets on eBay. The e-mail address posted on his PayPal account, was not the e-mail address that ID'd his PayPal account, and was not a legitimate e-mail address. Why the hell do you think you you have the moral superiority or right to scrutinise my every word. Are you accusing me of lying yet again? Where is all this knowledge you claim to have, because you seem to be just [email protected] your way along now?


So you had access to his Paypal account to know which email address was attached to it?  That's a pretty neat trick.  How in the world did you come up with that one?

And why aren't you using the same technique with the current incarnation of lisas_stuff_too?

mbassoc2003 wrote:It's called 'comparison'. You claim that theft is theft regardless of how you end up with someone elses property. By your logic therefor, speeding is speeding. I was drawing a comparison, not changing the subject.

It's a "comparison" to create a situation that not only doesn't even remotely apply to this one, nor does it have anything to do with a position that I've ever taken, let alone one that I've taken with respect to this issue?   Ok.

And yes, whilst I haven't actually taken a position on it before(and not that it really matters with respect to this topic), believe it or not, speeding is in fact speeding.  I guess that doesn't actually jive with your line of thinking, but that's a different topic for a different thread.

mbassoc2003 wrote:You seem to be losing your grasp of English now, or clutching at straws. Are you saying that theft is theft regardless of how you end up with someone elses property, but that is only applicable to the crime of theft, and all other crimes have special dispensation? It's a comparison.

For someone who keeps claiming to have such a strong grasp of the language, it certainly isn't preventing you from posting things such as this.

For the record, clutching at straws would actually be constituted by bringing up things that have nothing to do with the topic at hand or even positions that a poster has ever taken previously and using them as a comparison.

mbassoc2003 wrote:I was pointing out the flaw in your philosophy. You seem to think only crimes Bclarkie deem to pass judgement on are crimes, regardless of any willingness to back your accusations up with either facts or and explanation of where it is deemed a crime in law. There is no law against being left holding someone's money, even if under Bclarkie Law it's stealing.

I didn't make the law, therefore it's not mine to claim.  

With that out of the way, feel free to quote in the law (US or UK, for that matter) where the law dictates that it's okay to steal from someone if they've stolen from someone else.  

I'll wait.

Also, you've neglected to address my question above about whether or not it wouldd suddenly all be okay for him if jonb came here and indicated that he has only stolen from people on Ebay because people have stolen from him first.  Were you waiting for your next post to address that?

mbassoc2003 wrote:Oops! My English again. Too many complex sentence structures, or too much assumption on my part that I didn't need to explain things in detail. We all assume ('take ownership of' not 'guess at') a moral position and a level of authority when we post in open forum. It is impled by our words and the tone in which we write, and yours is one of authority and judgemental superiority. It is not 'claimed' in a declaration, but 'claimed' by virtue or our action in posts and responses.


Oh good, so you're making stuff up as you go along.  Thanks for confirming it.

mbassoc2003 wrote:By labeling me a thief you state your moral position. By then responding to the facts in the case and further finding your own evidence from Acaeum's history that I had forgotten was there, by ignoring that both sets of facts corroberate eachother, and the laying down your moral principle that I am still a thief because unlike you I have not managed to track down Jonb, you are assuming a position of moral superiority and exacting a judgement that I am a thief regardless of my intentions to return a payment.


Ian, why are you so angry?  I mean, if you're so convinced that your actions are such a good and just  thing, I'm not entirely sure why you're so worked up about it.  Also, if you condone stealing form a thief, why not revel in your position that you're supposedly content with?

mbassoc2003 wrote:Finally, you state that I am a thief because I have not taken suffiecient steps to find and repay Jonb, yet you yourself claim to be the person who knows most about this "clown scum bag", and you yourself will not provide any information to allow me find the gentleman, either because you do not have such information or will not pass it along. If you do not have sufficient information about the gentleman's identity, you are undermining you're claimed authority because you yourself cannot find him and you live in the same damn country as the guy, and if you do have the information, you undermine your claimed moral authority by not passing it along.


You're claims of finding the bad guy is starting to rival that of OJ Simpson.

He spent his time trying to find the bad guy(s) too, whilst playing rounds of golf on Florida's finest courses.  It's no wonder he had such difficulty finding them.

Strangely enough, he also thought it was a-okay to rob other proposed thieves and is now spending 10+ years in jail for it.  It must have been that damn bclarkie's moral authority law at work again.

He must like really, really hate me.

mbassoc2003 wrote:Whilst I am willing to continue this debate on our moral positions, it will become tedious and futile if I need to contine elaborating and explaining English sentence structure and meanings. I cannot be the only one who understood the English that I wrote.


You can't even get a grasp on your own position, let alone being able to write it down coherently.  Of this positions that you've taken, half of them conflicted with one another.

That said, I've actually done my best to keep this back and forth as civil as possible and keep it on course, but you're making more and more it difficult to do.


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Post Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:46 pm 
 

He's angry because you're gunning for him over a trivial issue. I'd be too. This is stretching the limits of what the Acaeum is here for.


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Post Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:50 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:So you had access to his Paypal account to know which email address was attached to it?  That's a pretty neat trick.  How in the world did you come up with that one? And why aren't you using the same technique with the current incarnation of lisas_stuff_too?

Jeez. It's like teaching monkeys. Now you really are being deliberately obstructive. Go and log in to your PayPal account, look at the transaction page of something you bought, and see if you can find an e-mail address. You need to have bought or sold something in order to generate a transaction, and just like you, I haven't bought anything from Lisa's Stuff. So I have no transaction to interrogate. You are just debating BS now and avoiding the questions I have asked.
bclarkie wrote:It's a "comparison" to create a situation that not only doesn't even remotely apply to this one, nor does it have anything to do with a position that I've ever taken, let alone one that I've taken with respect to this issue? Ok.

And yes, whilst I haven't actually taken a position on it before(and not that it really matters with respect to this topic), believe it or not, speeding is in fact speeding. I guess that doesn't actually jive with your line of thinking, but that's a different topic for a different thread.

It is a direct comparison. You claim a crime is a crime regardless of whether it was intentional or even perpetrated by the actions of the accused. You sit judgement on your peirs. So it is a just and direct comparrison. By your stated position, a speeder is a speeder, enven if they are not at fault and the actions of the motor vehicle were the instigator of the crime. By your reconning they are criminals by virtue of being the responsible driver of the vehicle at the time. You are painting a very twisted picture of your morality here. Why not answer the questions I have asked?
bclarkie wrote:For the record, clutching at straws would actually be constituted by bringing up things that have nothing to do with the topic at hand or even positions that a poster has ever taken previously and using them as a comparison.

A direct comparrison pointing out a flaw in your philosophy is not an unrelated arguement. It is the premis upon which logical arguement and debate are founded. You are wrong.
bclarkie wrote:Ian, why are you so angry? I mean, if you're so convinced that your actions are such a good and just thing, I'm not entirely sure why you're so worked up about it. Also, if you condone stealing form a thief, why not revel in your position that you're supposedly content with?

I am not angry. I am affronted that you have labelled me a thief and will not back your public accusation up with facts that have a recongnised common position in law. You then avoid the questions I ask and bebate BS on the periphery, pretending you don't understand the nuances of English and don't know how PayPal works. Answer the questions posed.
bclarkie wrote:You're claims of finding the bad guy is starting to rival that of OJ Simpson.

The extent of my search for Mr B was limitted to the eBay data, PayPal data, and what little titbits I gleened from our correspondence. I am not about to spend 5 years of my life looking for a guy who disappeared. I have neither the time nor interest in pursuing this guy. Whilst this may have been your obsession over the past decade, it has not been mine. And for all your obsession and hunting this guy, you seem to have no more information than the rest of us who don't give a F about him.


You have ignored the questions in my post and just debated bulls't.

1. At what point did I break the law and become a thief?
2. Where/how can I return the fund to the person formerly known as Jon Bassett, or do you not know either?


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Last edited by mbassoc2003 on Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:58 pm 
 

RaisedFromTheDead wrote:He's angry because you're gunning for him over a trivial issue. I'd be too. This is stretching the limits of what the Acaeum is here for.

Brian has a history of this type of behaviour. Every now and then he tries to run someone off the boards. Sometimes it's an eBay thief trolling for some pity, but sometimes it's a genuine contributor to the community, and we lose someone who has a lot to contribute and a lot of respect in the community, and then at other times he then disappears for months and months at a time, and no-one hears from him or can contact him. None of us will ever find out what external factors influence this behaviour, but it has developed steadily over the years. It's just the way he is.


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