R.I.P.: Dragon and Dungeon magazines
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Post Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:33 pm 
 

Radovarl wrote:
I dunno; I think maybe we overestimate the degree of recognition the Dungeons and Dragons brand name has in the general population.  I was with your line of thinking about Microsoft, until I realized I have no idea what the "Bettman Archives" are....  What are they?


Arguably, the D&D brand name has at this moment it's highest recognition ever.  The brand has been around 30+ years...entire generations have grown up playing it, and are now in their 30s-50s, and they have children that also are aware of and play the game.  The game has moved from hushed tones back room dabbling to being played and displayed out in the open in game stores, as well as being mentioned  positively in media, enough that the word has become a bit of a punchline (D&D geeks) and recognizable when someone throws it out in casual conversation.  The movie, cartoon, web sites, computer games, etc all have done a part to bring in a few more into the fold of knowing what D&D is.  If they don't know EXACTLY what it is, they are at least aware of certain concepts connected with the brand.  I've actually been surprised since WOTC there hasnt been more of an effort made to cash in on the name recognition of the product through advertising or marketing.

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Post Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:58 pm 
 

I guess that's true, though D&D was from very early on somewhat visible (references in the movie "ET", mid-eighties tv commercials, etc.).  I guess what I'm trying to get at is that maybe the brand "acceptance" is no higher than it used to be.  Whether correctly or incorrectly, the game is still seen as something that socially maladjusted teenage boys do in basements for 16 hours at a time.  Also, I think the "geek elitism" that always accompanied the hobby has to some extent been accentuated.  This was brought home to me very clearly when I went to a high school D&D friend's wedding last summer (he married "late", at 38 years old).  He now plays 3.x with a group of younger folks (one of whom is now his wife), who all attended, and when it came up in conversation that I was an "old school D&Der", the reaction I got was exactly the opposite of what I expected...  When I asked what kinds of characters they were playing, one young woman said, "I'm a ranger/master thrower, but you don't have the new books so you wouldn't know what that is," (with a definite judgmental tone in her voice).  They didn't think it was cool I had played AD&D, they thought it was quaint and obsolete.  Happens I did know what a master thrower was, but I didn't tell her that.

The point I'm belaboring is that if the people in the hobby keep an "in-group" mentality, maybe the brand isn't all that desirable, because new players are reluctant to break into the hobby due to the attitude and "elitism".  Hence marketing to 11-year-olds, perhaps..

  

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Post Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:00 pm 
 

Advertising and marketing are losses on the profit and loss statement.  Hasbro is only interested in profit, and thus there is no advertising or marketing.  Of course, while the drive for profit is good, doing it at the expense of your fanbase is damn near suicidal.



  


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:57 pm 
 

ATOM wrote:And it sure beats a discussion of the sugar/sweetner content of Coke.
Artifical sweetners gave lab animals brain tumors....think on that Diet Coke fans!


What I heard was, to get that result the rats had to be fed the equivalent amount of sweetener in 800 cans of soda daily :!:
--that's a little over 33 cases a day.  

I don't know any one who could drink 800 cans/day!! :D [/i]

  

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Post Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:23 pm 
 

The Bettman Archives is a collection of historic photographs and drawings that features prominently in many history books.  

Microsoft owns the Archives.  It's on Bill Gate's equipment list.

Probably positioning themselves for the future and saw a price they were willing to pay.

I can't believe they did not buy TSR and/or WOTC.

Also, I don't know what a master thrower is.  :?

Mark  8)


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:28 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:Also, I don't know what a master thrower is.  :?

Mark  8)


Obviously it's like a thrower but ....better :D

(possibly a rare potter prestige class!)


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Post Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:26 am 
 

It's one of the goofy prestige classes that accompanied the deluge of similar crunchy bits published in the Complete series splatbooks from WotC.  I'd give you more detail, as if you'd care, but about six months ago I got so disgusted with Wizbro that I sold almost all of my 3.x books on eBay.  It's basically exactly what it sounds like.

  

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Post Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:33 am 
 

I just got a notice to renew my Dungeon subscription from Paizo today!!

What a bunch of nobs :x


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Post Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:17 am 
 

Blackmoor wrote:I just got a notice to renew my Dungeon subscription from Paizo today!!

What a bunch of nobs :x

Wow, that is really weak. I'm guessing it was some sort of computer-generated nonsense, but still ... pretty weak.

So do you have any "thoughtful" replies in mind?  :)

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:11 pm 
 

Huh, interesting to see the diversity of responses here.  Personally, I grieved Dragon when Gygax was kicked out of TSR in 1985.  I let my subscription run out and that was that.

I guess "end of an era" is an entirely subjective thing.

  


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Post Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 1:47 pm 
 

I used to go to ICv2 all the time, but just realized it had been something like a year since I had last visited. So what do I see upon my arrival this morning ... ?

An amazing example of corporate double-speak from WotC. There is, quite literally, not a single real answer in this so-called Q&A:

I wish I could be a marketing person, too

My God, I honestly don't think it's possible that Wizards could be handling the Dragon/Dungeon thing any worse than they are ... this entire thing is really going to come back and haunt them.

+++++

Oh, BTW, Liz: "13 million eyeballs," my ass. How many of those, I wonder, are people like me, who visit Wizards about once a month (and only if some 1e-related material is updated or mentioned)?

Better yet, how many of those supposed 13 million are just there for the message boards?

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Post Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 1:51 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:I used to go to ICv2 all the time, but just realized it had been something like a year since I had last visited. So what do I see upon my arrival this morning ... ?

An amazing example of corporate double-speak from WotC. There is, quite literally, not a single real answer in this so-called Q&A:

I wish I could be a marketing person, too

My God, I honestly don't think it's possible that Wizards could be handling the Dragon/Dungeon thing any worse than they are ... this entire thing is really going to come back and haunt them.

+++++

Oh, BTW, Liz: "13 million eyeballs," my ass. How many of those, I wonder, are people like me, who visit Wizards about once a month (and only if some 1e-related material is updated or mentioned)?

Better yet, how many of those supposed 13 million are just there for the message boards?


I read that, X. As I said on the Dragonsfoot boards, I've crapped better loads than that pile......

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Post Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 3:04 pm 
 

Their decision makes sense from a cost and delivery standpoint.  

It is the emotional impact of Dragon and Dungeon that they do not comprehend.

I corresponded with the public relations guy from Paizo the other day.  He has a positive spin for it all, but the gist of it is that Paizo did not have a choice.

Mark 8)


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Post Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 3:40 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:I corresponded with the public relations guy from Paizo the other day.  He has a positive spin for it all, but the gist of it is that Paizo did not have a choice.

Yeah, I still feel bad about railing against Paizo in my original post; at that point, it was unclear as to just how much WotC was pulling the strings. The jointly-issued press release made it seem like more of a mutual decision ...

Anyway, apologies again to any Paizo fans I might have offended; for the record, I still consider Paizo to be a nice place to order gaming items. I'm much less sold on the gigantic monthly whatcha-ma-call-ems that they plan on doing now that Dragon and Dungeon are gone ... I honestly don't see how that plan is doomed to anything other than failure inside of 12 months.

But that's probably a subject for another day ... :)

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Post Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 4:07 pm 
 

Does anyone know what the subscription rates for Dragon or Dungeon are at?  I'm guessing that they must be seriously down to consider a move like this but I don't have any sense of what kind of numbers they are dealing in these days.

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Post Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 4:15 pm 
 

Mars wrote:Does anyone know what the subscription rates for Dragon or Dungeon are at?  I'm guessing that they must be seriously down to consider a move like this but I don't have any sense of what kind of numbers they are dealing in these days.

Unless there's something I'm not seeing, it's no longer possible to get a traditional subscription to either magazine.

The Paizo site mentions that "month-to-month" subscriptions are available, with a 35-percent discount. Frankly, I'm not entirely certain what that means (for instance, would you have to renew every month?).

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Post Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 4:22 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:I still consider Paizo to be a nice place to order gaming items.

Although, all due respect and everything, but maybe someone at Paizo should delete that header at the top. Or else re-word it to something like:

"The gift that keeps on giving ... at least until August!"

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