Ebay selling question
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Post Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:31 pm 
 

Mars wrote:People lose money on Ebay everyday. They buy an item for one price from a store then decide to sell it on Ebay for less money.


Pretty witty, but your comment is not analogous at all.

No, that is not what is being said. What is being said is that if you have all of these high costs, you are required by Ebay to put them into the starting price of your auction. There are certain things you are allowed to charge for shipping and handling. Gas and hourly wage are not included in this list.


I don't recall seeing this explicitly noted as such. But it may well be that I've overlooked them. My impression of reading the policy is that handling is a broad category that reflects some of the cost of delivering the package.

I don't think we missed it. I think you have completely miss it. NONE OF THESE FEES ARE ALLOWED BY EBAY! Does it help if I put things in capitals? Read the examples. Charging $8 more than the actual postage cost is a violation!


This example is one where the seller is trying to purposefully transpose the price into shipping costs, thus avoiding eBay fees.

It has nothing to do with the reasonableness of handling charges, as written.


Last edited by Sea-to-sky-games on Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:33 pm 
 

Still waiting on your eBay ID, by the way. I mean, it's a fair question, don't you think? Given that you post your rants on every thread here that involves eBay in any way, I'd love to see all this expertise in action.

So ... what's your user ID?


Wow. I thought it was self-evident. Why don't you try the most obvious possibility? :)

  

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:40 pm 
 

If you really don't think your listing fees are excessive, why don't you prove it.  All it will cost you is 25 cents.  List an auction on Ebay for some book you want to sell and state that the handling will be $200 since you are a lawyer and need to drive 5 hours to post it.

I will report it as excessive fees and Ebay will then decide.  If it doesn't get cancelled, we'll know Ebay's ruling.

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:42 pm 
 

A really helpful & intelligent mental picture just popped into my head... ;-)
Image


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:47 pm 
 

If you really don't think your listing fees are excessive, why don't you prove it.  All it will cost you is 25 cents.  List an auction on Ebay for some book you want to sell and state that the handling will be $200 since you are a lawyer and need to drive 5 hours to post it.

I will report it as excessive fees and Ebay will then decide.  If it doesn't get cancelled, we'll know Ebay's ruling.


I agree that's probably the simplest solution. However, I don't think I was recommending s/h of $200 nor charging a lawyer's full rate of pay for time to deliver something.

As someone pointed out, you would be hard pressed to be in that hypothetical position of isolation (and there are some usps policies that offset this). Maybe in Canada that would fly but I don't live in Uranium City...

I think the easiest thing would be to e-mail eBay and say "is it reasonable to include some of the costs of delivery into a handling fee where the intent is not to avoid eBay fees?" I suspect they would say "it depends".

  


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:48 pm 
 

I didn't "try" anything, StS ... I was mostly just curious if you'd answer the question.

Also, it's pretty common practice to use different user IDs throughout the interwebs (as seen in our user ID thread at this very site), and I had no way of knowing what your preference was. So it's hardly "self-evident."

Finally, given the long name and the dashes, there would be about 37 different ways to actually make a user ID that was similar to yours ... and, frankly, I'd have to actually care before I tried more than one or two of the variations.

+++++

It just hit me, though: once again, you won. You're living the troll's dream of dividing and disrupting the community ... and we keep falling for it. There's no way you even remotely believe more than 10 percent of the sh*t you type here, but we keep taking you seriously. More fools we.

I think BeyondTheBreach might be the only one of us here using his brain when it comes to you.

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:49 pm 
 

Sea-to-Sky-Games,

Looking that the eBay listing for the ID that appears to be yours raises some confusion as to where you are located.
Vancouver, BC Canada or Plano TX.
Which one is it?
All the discussion about what is available as far as shipping boxes, and postal pickup is moot if you actually live in Canada.


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:57 pm 
 

It just hit me, though: once again, you won. You're living the troll's dream of dividing and disrupting the community ... and we keep falling for it. There's no way you even remotely believe more than 10 percent of the sh*t you type here, but we keep taking you seriously. More fools we.


Well I do believe what I say. Sorry, didn't mean to be flippant.. my id is exactly how it's written here. I'm certainly not trying to make myself out to be anything different than who I really am.

I didn't know that just making conversation around here, even if it went against the grain every now and then, would cause so much hostility.

Looking that the eBay listing for the ID that appears to be yours raises some confusion as to where you are located.
Vancouver, BC Canada or Plano TX.
Which one is it?
All the discussion about what is available as far as shipping boxes, and postal pickup is moot if you actually live in Canada.


From Vancouver, lived in Plano/DFW for the last 3 years or so. Great little town btw. Want my CV?  :D

  


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:03 pm 
 

Sea-to-sky-games wrote:even if it went against the grain every now and then

:)  :P  :D  :)  :lol:  :)  :D

Oh, man ... you know how people often use the expression "thanks for the laugh" in an ironic or sarcastic way? You know, for situations where they didn't actually laugh?

Well, that's not the case here. I want to thank you for the laugh, sincerely. In fact, I'm still sort of chuckling ...

"Every now and then." That is just PRICELESS.

I've gotta go now. But, seriously, thanks for the laugh. It will help me get through what is shaping up to be a long Monday. I owe you one.

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:06 pm 
 

Radovarl wrote:I'm not offended, I just don't understand why these debates (or whatever you'd like to call them) become so personal.  I don't know anyone here all that well, but why not just argue in a civil fashion, without everyone's talk of trolls and such?  I wouldn't mind being involved in these discussions, but the way you guys seem to operate I just feel like staying away.

I know how you feel.

Look, if a listing's handling fees appear excessive, either don't bid on it or report it to eBay. That's not difficult. If eBay sees a problem with the listing, then they will remove it as is their right since the listing is residing on their server space.

I personally don't have an issue with someone charging hundreds of dollars in handling fees as long as he's up front about it. I just won't bid on the auction. I don't see any reason to go crusading about it.



  

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:16 pm 
 

StS: listen chummer. I work for a law firm and i am an accountant ok? so basically, i deal with the figures of EVERYTHING that goes on in my firm, so i count myself pretty reasonably qualified to act on what i know. Not only that, i have also done it pretty well for like 20 years.

let me tell you this. your lawyer comments are utter rubbish. i won't go into details as they are totally unnecessary.

back to the point at hand.

if you bid on something and the handling fee is not listed, then if you havent asked beforehand, expect the worst because its your own fault.

if i fee is listed, you know up front and it is your choice either way, whether you go for it or not.

if i am charged a $13 handling fee to have a GPM item that costs $10 to send and it is a ONE SHEET PIECE OF PAPER, then you can bet your ass that i am gonna jump up and down like a madman, as that is just ludicrous.

if someone is fair, i am happy and i will return and deal again.

i buy and sell and like to think i have a pretty good reputation. i earn this by being fair to ppl i deal with. sure. i could increase things and milk it for all its worth and maybe make a little more....but thats not my way. i like satisfaction and repeat biz. its good for me and its good for the punter. THATS how business should be and the whole system would work a lot better.

Now i really dont like dragging myself into these things, so StS, please man, stop trying to disrupt everything all the time with such stupid comments ok?

keep it simple man.

Al



  

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:20 pm 
 

dcas wrote:I personally don't have an issue with someone charging hundreds of dollars in handling fees as long as he's up front about it. I just won't bid on the auction. I don't see any reason to go crusading about it.


Although it would be nice if the seller was upfront with stuff like this, many sellers are not.  So what happens if it is not mentioned, you win the auction and the seller says it will be $210 for your $10 book because ...  There should be nothing wrong with this since all $200 of the fees are reasonable handling costs.

The trouble with asking Ebay about anything is they won't give you any kind of firm answer unless they are forced into it.  In this case they will just send you off to their policy pages.  If you post an auction with such handling fees, then you are forcing Ebay to make a decision on it.

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:24 pm 
 

Mars wrote:Although it would be nice if the seller was upfront with stuff like this, many sellers are not.  So what happens if it is not mentioned, you win the auction and the seller says it will be $210 for your $10 book because ...  There should be nothing wrong with this since all $200 of the fees are reasonable handling costs.

If they were "reasonable," then the seller would have been up front about them. The fact that he was not is enough evidence that they are not "reasonable."

I don't buy or sell much on eBay, but ISTM that there are ways to address such issues.



  


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:28 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:StS: listen chummer. I work for a law firm and i am an accountant ok? so basically, i deal with the figures of EVERYTHING that goes on in my firm, so i count myself pretty reasonably qualified to act on what i know. Not only that, i have also done it pretty well for like 20 years.

let me tell you this. your lawyer comments are utter rubbish. i won't go into details as they are totally unnecessary.

back to the point at hand.

if you bid on something and the handling fee is not listed, then if you havent asked beforehand, expect the worst because its your own fault.

if i fee is listed, you know up front and it is your choice either way, whether you go for it or not.

if i am charged a $13 handling fee to have a GPM item that costs $10 to send and it is a ONE SHEET PIECE OF PAPER, then you can bet your ass that i am gonna jump up and down like a madman, as that is just ludicrous.

if someone is fair, i am happy and i will return and deal again.

i buy and sell and like to think i have a pretty good reputation. i earn this by being fair to ppl i deal with. sure. i could increase things and milk it for all its worth and maybe make a little more....but thats not my way. i like satisfaction and repeat biz. its good for me and its good for the punter. THATS how business should be and the whole system would work a lot better.

Now i really dont like dragging myself into these things, so StS, please man, stop trying to disrupt everything all the time with such stupid comments ok?

keep it simple man.

Al


It's a bit rich to say that one does not like getting dragged into "these things" and then insult someone by saying they are making stupid or foundless comments.

If there is something tangibly wrong in my posts then feel free to post about it, or preferably, pm me. If I say someone is stupid, I better have a darn good reason for saying so.. particularly in front of a lot of other people.

  

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:46 pm 
 

dcas wrote:If they were "reasonable," then the seller would have been up front about them. The fact that he was not is enough evidence that they are not "reasonable."

I don't buy or sell much on eBay, but ISTM that there are ways to address such issues.


I don't think disclosure should be a factor in deciding whether fees are reasonable or not.  

By ways of address the issue, do you mean a sack of doorknobs?

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:57 pm 
 

JohnGaunt wrote:Free, but they can only be used for shipping Priority Mail.  They can not be used or re-used for any other type of mail.  Yes, people use them as cardboard liners and re-use them to ship packages, but all that is illegal.

One eager postal clerk opened up my Media Mail package because it looked as if I were using bits of a Priority Mail box.  Fortunately I was not, but then I couldn't remember if what the item was ---a game or a magazine or what, so I got ripped-off on postage.

As a result of the USPS' determination to make me not use or re-use boxes,  I have found that unused Priority Mail boxes are good for drying stripped minis, separating items, and anything else that requires a stiff piece of cardboard.   :twisted:


Of the 8 billion times I've used some bit of USPS packaging to mail something, if they catch me once someday, I'll still be ahead...but seriously, don't those guys have anything better to do?  I've never had a package opened yet, if it happens someday it won't be out of one of my local post offices, they are so busy and so short of employees nowadays it's a miracle if you can get out of there in 30 minutes even mailing one package...I hear about it happening, but it's never been at one of my local USPS stations.

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:02 pm 
 

Mars wrote:I don't think disclosure should be a factor in deciding whether fees are reasonable or not.

Fair enough -- but it's certainly a factor in deciding whether the seller is reasonable.

At least if the seller is upfront one can simply not bid.

By ways of address the issue, do you mean a sack of doorknobs?

No, I meant not paying for the item, leaving negative feedback, complaining to eBay, etc.



  

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:52 pm 
 

Mars wrote:
Although it would be nice if the seller was upfront with stuff like this, many sellers are not.  So what happens if it is not mentioned, you win the auction and the seller says it will be $210 for your $10 book because ...  There should be nothing wrong with this since all $200 of the fees are reasonable handling costs.

The trouble with asking Ebay about anything is they won't give you any kind of firm answer unless they are forced into it.  In this case they will just send you off to their policy pages.  If you post an auction with such handling fees, then you are forcing Ebay to make a decision on it.


I've always believed in letting the marketplace sort itself out....

You want to charge $15 shipping each package?  Fine. I'm going to charge $5, and take all your business. All the poor rubes that don't read your shipping and pay $15 for one module are only going to do it ONE time.  I'll be in business long after the "genius" who thinks they are getting around the system by charging a lot on shippng.

And if the seller isn't upfront about shipping costs (Cougie, take a GIANT step forward), DON'T BID ON THEIR DAMN AUCTIONS!!!!!!  Nobody, and I mean nobody, is holding a shotgun to your head and making you bid on that copy of Red Sonja Unconquered from the seller with no upfront shipping cost.  If/when the seller slaps you with a $100 shipping fee, it's your own fault, and I would recommend you either pay it because your'e stupid enough to bid on something without knowing the shipping fees, or refuse to send the cash and exchange negs.  There are alot of people in this world that think because they can't pull their head out of their ass you and I should do it for them.  I swear people act like their money is as valuable to them as toilet paper is to me, the way they throw it around.  They bid on auctions with no descriptions except for the title....they bid on auctions with no photos....they bid on auctions from sellers with excessive negs or less than 90% feedback....they bid on auctions from foreign countries know for their scam artists such as South Africa or Asia...and then they are SHOCKED to find out they get bent over and used like a long haired pretty boy on the "OZ" tv show.  Geez.  

Essentially, Ebay doesn't give a damn AS LONG AS THEY GET THEIR MONEY UP FRONT, which they do.   They are against excessive shipping and handling fees, sure....because they don't get a piece of it!  Their job is to make their rules and policies sound threatening, but in effect be so vague as to actually allow any type of activity. For example, in our above example of the guy charging $15 for a module, well is that excessive per Ebay's policies?  I haven't a clue.  Maybe he's sending them in a Express next day envelope for $14.40 a pop....in that case it's not excessive.  Maybe he's slipping it into a plain brown envelope with no backing for $1.50.  I would consider that excessive, but once again since Ebay hasn 't taken the time to define the word, I have no idea if that would qualify.  

I don't know about other sellers here and I won't speak for them. But personally I'm not running a charity.  Frankly ebay and their rules can shove it up their ass, I don't care what they think or say because they've proven time and again they are concerned with making money above all....their new "hidden" bidder policy for one makes me want to throw up, it's so blatantly ridiculous.  I'll charge as much shipping/handling as I ethically can to refund myself for supplies, make a small profit, yet stay below or at the same price of other Ebay dealers so as to compete with them in the marketplace.   I won't apologize for it one bit either...the charges are right up front.

Ugh, and just wait for that mail price hike next month....... :cry:

Mike B.


Last edited by Badmike on Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:54 pm 
 

Sea-to-sky-games wrote:
It's a bit rich to say that one does not like getting dragged into "these things" and then insult someone by saying they are making stupid or foundless comments.

If there is something tangibly wrong in my posts then feel free to post about it, or preferably, pm me. If I say someone is stupid, I better have a darn good reason for saying so.. particularly in front of a lot of other people.


actually StS, please read my post again.

i did not say YOU were stupid. i said your lawyer comments were stupid.

anyway.

Al



  

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:55 pm 
 

I don't know about lawyers and duct tape and Canada and all that....

I only know that the cost of shipping on Ebay has gone up by 50% to 100%  or so in the two years I have been active there.

1)  A number of sellers charge $6 for mailing a module.  That used to be the cost for mailing a boxed game.

2)  Many sellers charge $9.99 for shipping a module or a book without blushing.  Some charge $11.99 with a totally straight face.

3)  "Combined Shipping" has essentially gone away.  "Combined Shipping" no longer means putting two items in the same evelope for free...since the cost and the "handling" are exactly the same.   It means "half off" or "only $2 more" or "we don't charge extra for insurance" or something like that.

4)  Even sellers who claim to charge "actual cost" for shipping must be paying $7 these days for media mail and a manilla envelope.  In fact, "actual cost" listed on an auction without the "actual cost" in dollars clearly stated is now a good reason to avoid that seller.

So, I contact a seller and ask, "Do you offer combined shipping?"  The reply I consistently get is, "Yes, the first item is actual cost ($6) and each additional item is only $2.50."

If I am stupid enough to bid, then I get three items crammed in the same manilla envelope that arrives with the cost listed as "$3.95."

So....$6 + $2.50 + $2.50 = $11 - $3.95 = $7.05 - $0.25 for the envelope = $6.80 for "handling," because licking an evelope with three things inside requires such massive amounts of effort...$5 to $7 worth of effort, in fact.

I'm not angry at the seller for doing this.  Clearly, sellers feel the need to supplement their profit by making at least some money on shipping.  I blame Ebay and PayPal fees.  The stupid person here is me.

So long as the shipping and handling fees are clearly listed...and hiding your handling fee in a small note down at the bottom of the listing does not qualify as "clearly"...I figure that prices in general have gone up and shipping is the form that increase has taken.

It has gotten so common to make money off of shipping that when I scroll down a set of listings I actually look first at the shipping prices.  If a shipping price is not clearly listed in the item category list then I generally ignore the auction unless it is an item I might be willing to get reamed for.

Then again, there is the somewhat high shipping I paid to CrazyEgor last week that translated into near instantaneous delivery of my items, in a very secure two-day envelope.  Nice work, Egor.   8O

Mark


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