Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk!
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Post Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:54 pm 
 

The long-awaited re-emergence of Afrika Bambaataa, perhaps?   :lol:

Man, I used to love listening that guy, before rap became pop-rap:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrika_Bambaataa


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:16 am 
 

Kingofpain89 wrote:I don't particularly care for d20/3E but based on the previous "expedition" adventure Expedition to Ravenloft I will be picking it up along with Expedition to the Demonweb Pits.

As for Expedition to Undermountain....I may have to wait for a review on that one before buying it.


Not to derail the current Gary mania  :D  but I have to agree with King here.  If you haven't read the Expedition series yet head to the nearest Barnes and Noble and just read through it.  Its pretty dam good, and made a fantastic campaign ender for an entire party of my players (yup they all bit it, and it was one fantastic blaze of glory!).  Bclarkie (and others for that matter) I can totally appreciate any distaste for WoTC or 3E.  Until I actually was semi forced into using by our player base, I felt much the same.  But....

*EDIT*  I would like to end with what was said above and add "even if you dont like d20 you should look it over and think about converting it for use."   The rest of this post is left for reference but upon looking at it further could be construed as something it wasnt meant to be.  I appologize wholeheartedly.  *END EDIT*

IMHO for what its worth, d20/3E is the most flexible and usefull ruleset out there, period.  My love and heart will always be with 1E/2E material because thats what I grew up with.  But I dont play with them anymore for a reason.  Once you get used to it, as a DM, its just so maleable and has so many utilities that open up possibilities for rules that make sense.  No more "guestimating" rules as it were.  Things just fit and mesh well, and anyone telling you powergaming is rampant just doesnt take the time to curtail their players or use the system properly.

The first time I created and ran a campaign for a player party made up entirely of monster type races (Bugbear Ranger, Bugbear Berserker, Half Ogre Shaman, Kobold Assasin) d20/3E came to life.   :D

Ack, I didn't really mean to make this a 3E promo.  I do want to stress though that if there is a d20 module old schoolers can appreciate, the expedition series deliver.

Just this old DM's opinion.


Okay, I can't help but ask, but what exactly is a "potato wedger"? - bclarkie


Last edited by MadMaligor on Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
  

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:27 am 
 

MadMaligor wrote:IMHO for what its worth, d20/3E is the most flexible and usefull ruleset out there, period.  My love and heart will always be with 1E/2E material because thats what I grew up with.  But I dont play with them anymore for a reason.  Once you get used to it, as a DM, its just so maleable and has so many utilities that open up possibilities for rules that make sense.  No more "guestimating" rules as it were.  Things just fit and mesh well, and anyone telling you powergaming is rampant just doesnt take the time to curtail their players or use the system properly.


8O

trying very hard not to make a comment here. think i will leave a reply for frank to make. my words just wouldnt do it justice.

for me the game was never about rules at all. i hardly ever used any.

the roleplay between the players and the DM was always the key for me and them and it always worked without question. never once in over 25 years of DMing has one of my decisions ever been questioned.

but if youre into rules and having a reason for everything, i will just nod and agree.

Al



  

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:23 am 
 

Yeah you can say all you want about d20 until you're blue in the face but a majority here just don't care for it. Same with 2nd edition, though thats accept a bit more, plus when the Planescape site goes up there should be a bit more talk about it.
I have learned that much, people here don't trash you for the rule set you use, but try and convince them one way or another and you'll get a 'some odd' responses :wink:

As for Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, it was good in the sense that Ravenloft was printed again, sucked in the regard that the encounters were all at the back and was far more pages then it needed to (my d20 gripe for most products is the bloody stat blocks). And well knowing Ravenloft is now dead again in the print department is a bummer (it was the first setting that I got everything for and love greatly). The adventure though was great, Bruce Cordell and James Wyatt can write!

If you want to talk about d20, there is some good Judges Guild products out that can be discussed in the Judges Guild forums. :)

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:41 am 
 

How are the JG d20 products different, Plaag? Do they use a different system, ie. no Ultra Mega Cleave of the Gods feats and the like?


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:15 am 
 

:)  I certainly dont want this to become a thread about how horrible or awesome d20/3E is, if there was misunderstanding I appologize.

Kill and Plaag,  I would say roleplay is roleplay.  The rules shouldn't matter in that regard.   My DM "style" is to provide the framework, set the mood and environment, and judge/react to the play of players (for lack of a better expression) with the rules.  The only true roleplaying I do while the DM hat is on, is the interaction between player and NPC (and even there I tie myself to die rolls where appropriate, reaction/morale/influence ect...it really gives each campaign/module/adventure a different feel because my own prejudice or personality is rarely involved).  I leave the real roleplay up to the players themselves.  I dont like to guide my players with rules on the fly.  I make it clear whats in and whats out rules wise.  Thats it.  When a player wants a new ability, class, race, or whatever introduced, they ask to do so at the start because they know that once we begin its pretty much set in stone.

So you can see, for me, the rules are a periferal decision.  Im no rules lover, or hater, just a user hehehehe.

Which takes me back to the OP's original point.  I too would recommend the Expedition stuff because of content and story, not the ruleset.  That can be adjusted to anything really.  :D   I shouldnt have said anything about 3E looking back, I guess I just piped up because I felt it would be a shame for those that dont care for d20 to miss out.  Being a big fan of the site I should have worded my post better..../salute.


Okay, I can't help but ask, but what exactly is a "potato wedger"? - bclarkie

  

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:32 pm 
 

Deadlord39 wrote:How are the JG d20 products different, Plaag? Do they use a different system, ie. no Ultra Mega Cleave of the Gods feats and the like?


Regarding the 'computer game type system of d20' well for one all d20 Judges Guild products have to use only the OGL, so for everything but the most recent all the Epic stuff was out, and all splat book material was never allowed. The modules, setting books and box set have about the least amount of d20 material with regards to stats and any new feats/skills/prestige classes then other products. Yes it is written for the d20 system, but for the products released by Necromancer Games they even allocate the slower XP progression like in 1st Ed then what is presented in 3rd edition.
I can't recall to much of the Dark Tower module from Quicklink without digging that out, but then thats been touted as the worst of the d20 line for Judges Guild (Treasury of Archaic Names they put out though is as good or better then the original - but then not really d20). Also can not comment about the new Thieves of Fortress Badabaskor as I don't have it yet, but then you can check out a chapter of it online.

For collecting, I'd say the 2 Quicklink products (but then they maybe as the Mayfair line of CSIO stuff is, relegated as not worth it regardless if it maybe harder to find), since Necromancer is basically removed from White Wolf and now no chance of any reprints being done, the Wilderlands of High Fantasy box set is the prize of d20 stuff - and has barely anything in it d20 wise (all other products through Necromancer had higher printings and should still be available)

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:08 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:
Regarding the 'computer game type system of d20' well for one all d20 Judges Guild products have to use only the OGL, so for everything but the most recent all the Epic stuff was out, and all splat book material was never allowed. The modules, setting books and box set have about the least amount of d20 material with regards to stats and any new feats/skills/prestige classes then other products. Yes it is written for the d20 system, but for the products released by Necromancer Games they even allocate the slower XP progression like in 1st Ed then what is presented in 3rd edition.
I can't recall to much of the Dark Tower module from Quicklink without digging that out, but then thats been touted as the worst of the d20 line for Judges Guild (Treasury of Archaic Names they put out though is as good or better then the original - but then not really d20). Also can not comment about the new Thieves of Fortress Badabaskor as I don't have it yet, but then you can check out a chapter of it online.

For collecting, I'd say the 2 Quicklink products (but then they maybe as the Mayfair line of CSIO stuff is, relegated as not worth it regardless if it maybe harder to find), since Necromancer is basically removed from White Wolf and now no chance of any reprints being done, the Wilderlands of High Fantasy box set is the prize of d20 stuff - and has barely anything in it d20 wise (all other products through Necromancer had higher printings and should still be available)

ShaneG.


The problem with the D20 Dark Tower is that it is a quick and dirty job, put together by people who did not actually know the D20 rules.  Most of the monsters, for instance, are just a name and hit points.  That does not fly in D20.

The module is essentially the original Dark Tower without any of the charm.

They omitted Paul Jaquay's name from the publication (which would have violated even TSR's work for hire contracts) and did not even send him an author's copy.  For some reason, the discourtesy really irks me.

A real JG collector should, of course, collect it at a price under $12...but let's not pretend that it matches up to original Dark Tower.

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:21 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:
The problem with the D20 Dark Tower is that it is a quick and dirty job, put together by people who did not actually know the D20 rules.  Most of the monsters, for instance, are just a name and hit points.  That does not fly in D20.

The module is essentially the original Dark Tower without any of the charm.

They omitted Paul Jaquay's name from the publication (which would have violated even TSR's work for hire contracts) and did not even send him an author's copy.  For some reason, the discourtesy really irks me.

A real JG collector should, of course, collect it at a price under $12...but let's not pretend that it matches up to original Dark Tower.

Mark   8)


That is probably why I don't recall that Dark Tower much. Even Duck Tower is better then the d20 version.

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:10 pm 
 

You guys should love QLI's Dark Tower, though, as I think I read somewhere that it didn't sell well and a lot of the print run ended up pulped... making actual copies somewhat rare.  :wink:

In its defense (and you can't say much good about it), the illustrations were among the best I have seen in recent game products - very sword and sorcery, which Paul's art clearly isn't.

  
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