Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk!
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Post Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:01 pm 
 

Kingofpain89 wrote:
** expired eBay auction **


Is Goodman Games stuff different?  It still has d20 on it so I would assume that by your definition that it is nothing but crap.




King, I don't want to speak for Frank, but I am pretty sure that US only auction was bid on by him on behalf of someone else. :wink:


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:06 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:
King, I don't want to speak for Frank, but I am pretty sure that US only auction was bid on by him on behalf of someone else. :wink:


Well if that is the case then I wont throw any more stones his way.  But as much venom as he uses to describe d20/3E I wouldnt be surprised if he refused to bid on it even for someone else.  :)

Let me just reiterate something: I DON'T LIKE d20/3E rules either!  But that doesnt mean that everything that is released for said rules is a waste of money.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:17 pm 
 

Kingofpain89 wrote:Wolfgang Baur is writing 'Demonweb' and Erik Mona is helping with 'Greyhawk' so I don't see how either of these could end up bad.

Just because the books are for d20 doesnt automatically make them shit.  :?


Ah, poor KingofPain89, you fail to see among these boards, like at Dragonsfoot, if it's not Scottish...I mean 1E, it's automatically crap.

Arguing anything other that praise on 1e on 1e/grognard boards is like debating the benefits of Western civilization to an Islamic Fundamentalist.

It will only end in flames/tears/bitching/etc.


There are no bad editions of D&D, just Boring Players and Unimaginative DMs.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:26 pm 
 

MrFilthyIke wrote:
Ah, poor KingofPain89, you fail to see among these boards, like at Dragonsfoot, if it's not Scottish...I mean 1E, it's automatically crap.

Arguing anything other that praise on 1e on 1e/grognard boards is like debating the benefits of Western civilization to an Islamic Fundamentalist.

It will only end in flames/tears/bitching/etc.


Oh, you mean kind of like over on the WotC boards the way you get smacked down like a hooker that came up short in her "protection fees" if actually you have the temerity to try and say anything other than 3E is the greatest game ever created by mankind.....


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:56 pm 
 

I don't think many here will ever know what that book contains.  The cost/quality ratio has skyrocketed in recent decades, and we're tired of getting "burned".  Incidentally, does anybody know why all the modern books are such gigantic beasts?  224 pages?  That's absurd.

Which is great, that makes it a future collectible.  :lol:

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Post Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:53 pm 
 

I will buy this item and decide for myself.  All of D20 is not crap. Many items are very good. Of course I just posted the link for interest, not to have people jump up and down crying about how much of a rip-off it is. :roll:


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:14 pm 
 

I'm on the same wavelength as Blackmoor on d20/3.5.  It's a fun system, and some of the products out there have great ideas.



I also think all good, experienced Dungeon Masters can make a good time out of a bad game system.



Anyway, I like Kingofpain89's suggestion.  Just read the free pdf, and if you like the product, go buy the book.  No one should ever feel 'burned' by a d20 product.  Every d20 product has a free pdf as soon as it's out (just go to piratebay.org if you've nowhere else to go).  

After checking out the pdf for a d20 book, I either buy the book, or delete the pdf.  No one gets screwed then, IMHO.

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Post Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:02 pm 
 

Gus Landt wrote:(just go to piratebay.org if you've nowhere else to go).  




hmmm... click... click..  wow!!!  8O  8O


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:59 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:
King, I don't want to speak for Frank, but I am pretty sure that US only auction was bid on by him on behalf of someone else. :wink:


Not at all, those were for me. I wanted to wipe my ass with overpriced paper, but they don't sell "Martha Stewart Daily" here. the sad part is, ass-wiping with 3E mods has proved to be futile. They consist entirely of shit, and so it is pointless to try and get them to absorb more.
Gotta run, all this 3E talk has reminded me of my new Playstation.


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:07 pm 
 

Ahhh, where to begin with all of the envy I'm bathed in at the moment?

Frank's wit, or his new Playstation?  Damn, my life is empty!  I'm still clunking around with my son's PS2.  Did you get a PS3, Frank?  I'm tempted to get one just for Motorstorm.  Now THERE'S a good time.   :D


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:39 pm 
 

I didn't actually get a Playstation. I spent all the money for it on the 3Eech mods.


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:24 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:
Oh, you mean kind of like over on the WotC boards the way you get smacked down like a hooker that came up short in her "protection fees" if actually you have the temerity to try and say anything other than 3E is the greatest game ever created by mankind.....


Wouldn't know, the irony is I only go there for the Mystara and Dark Sun forums, and an occasional Eberron foray.  But, given the behavior of most on these boards, I would assume the ONLY reason for typing www.wizards.com into a browser was for the explicit purpose of trolling. :)

And for Deadlords comments, well...he's not on ignore because he makes me laugh.  You know, like watching the Special Olympics.


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:47 pm 
 

MrFilthyIke wrote:.  But, given the behavior of most on these boards, I would assume the ONLY reason for typing www.wizards.com into a browser was for the explicit purpose of trolling. :)


True enough and rightfully so, but by that same token this board is a decidely 1st edition forum so the same pretty much could apply here on the other end of the spectrum as well. :wink:  

Now I am not saying that BM was wrong for posting this thread at all or that we attack someone anytime/everytime 3E or D20 is mentioned(quite the contrary most of the time, we are pretty good about being open to most things here), but on the other hand this board for the most part is deeply rooted in 1st edition stuff and so seeing a negative type of response to a new 3rd edition product being sold(especially one that hits so close to home like Castle Greyhawk) really shouldn't be much of a surprise either.  To be honest, aside from DL trying to stir the pot up a little bit and AC's short anti-3E rant(which IMO really wasn't even really that bad), no one has really said anything that bad at all.   :?


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:52 pm 
 

Here's another mini-rant which says nothing about d20.

Was it penned by Gygax and Kuntz?  Then it isn't Castle Greyhawk.  Just another attempt to cash in on the Castle Greyhawk name by creating a castle of that name yet not involving the two men who created the castle in the first place.

Unfortunately, the real Castle Greyhawk will likely remain unseen for all eternity, as Gary prefers to let it languish in the dustbin of history, despite clamoring from all corners begging him to publish it.  He never understood why people wanted to see his campaigns, when they could create their own.  And thus, we have various "Castle Greyhawk" adventures that don't take place in THE Castle Greyhawk.

Sorry, but I think I'll pass.

What I find funny is that Mr. FilthyIke is himself doing what he claims others on this site do: going to other sites for the sole purpose of trolling.  Or am I the only one to see the irony here?



  


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:05 pm 
 

Traveller wrote:What I find funny is that Mr. FilthyIke is himself doing what he claims others on this site do: going to other sites for the sole purpose of trolling.  Or am I the only one to see the irony here?


No, I am a fan of all editions, and buy and collect all.  I have just lost my patience with most 1e collectors, much like I have trouble tolerating most new breed power gamers playing 3rd ed.

I would just like to browse and collecting site without having to wade through the drivel of ass-hats trying to...ah screw it, I stopped caring while typing.


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:17 pm 
 

MrFilthyIke wrote:
No, I am a fan of all editions, and buy and collect all.  I have just lost my patience with most 1e collectors, much like I have trouble tolerating most new breed power gamers playing 3rd ed.

I would just like to browse and collecting site without having to wade through the drivel of ass-hats trying to...ah screw it, I stopped caring while typing.


I collect it all, 1st ed, 2nd ed, 3.??  There is ,lots of good about every edition IMHO :D


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:27 pm 
 

Blackmoor wrote:
I collect it all, 1st ed, 2nd ed, 3.??  There is ,lots of good about every edition IMHO :D


As a non player (for now-sigh!) I'm not really that bothered. I got back into this stuff when 3E was released and on a whim brought the 3 3E core rulebooks. Those books are long gone as I was not really impressed with the whole skills/feats/powergaming thing, yet my love for roleplaying stuff in general is growing all the time.

So as a reader. of RPGs it's the quality of the writing that counts - and as I like FR stuff then IMO WOTC are doing okay. The back story and writing in some of the hardbacks is very good indeed, though that may be because a lot of the contributors are very well established FR people.

Remember - most anything that get's people interested in this stuff has got to be a good thing for the industry, and by default, for gamers in general.


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:29 pm 
 

Goodman's Dungeon Crawl Classics are 3.0 and 3.5 edition.

I doubt most here would describe their products as crap.

From reading WOTC's own website, they are aware that many gamers considered TSR's Castle Greyhawk to be a deliberate attempt to discredit and ridicule Gary Gygax.  I doubt that Eric Mona is working on it in order to help them make that mistake over again.

Also, I think that everyone here is probably aware of this, but vitually every product put out by any publisher is an attempt to "cash in" on something.  Cashing in is the whole point of business.  The only difference between money grabs is that some of them are smart business and some of them are bad business decisions.


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:39 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:Goodman's Dungeon Crawl Classics are 3.0 and 3.5 edition.

I doubt most here would describe their products as crap.


To be honest, I don't think that are really all that great.  I really do like the old school artwork and artists that they employ, but the few DCC's that I have read through weren't all that inspiring to me.  Less than impressive IMO. :)


FormCritic wrote:Also, I think that everyone here is probably aware of this, but vitually every product put out by any publisher is an attempt to "cash in" on something.  Cashing in is the whole point of business.  The only difference between money grabs is that some of them are smart business and some of them are bad business decisions.


It would be foolish to argue with this, as you are absolutely 100% correct. :)   That said though, like with anything else(gaming or not) when you start traipsing around on people sacred grounds from the past, you can't really be surprised when you get both some hard core complaining and some heavy backlash as well from those people who's grounds that you are desecrating. :wink:


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Post Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:23 pm 
 

The core of the issue is not the concept of 3E. That is fine. It is the fact that they try to pass it off as the "evolution" of D&D that irritates me.


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