Feedback When to leave it or not to leave it
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Post Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:06 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:
Well I consider myself an hoest seller and yet based on my past experiences, things just are not all nice and tidy like we would like them to be.  :)
I should add that many honest sellers (like the folks here) adopt this "buyer leaves feedback first policy".  We all know that many "not-so-honest" or "downright dishonest" sellers use it as well.

Personally, I think you Honest guys would have essentially the same feedback overall if you left it first, but I can understand your Point of View.

I still will always leave feedback first - that is, if the buyer can wait for me to get my lazy ass 'round to my "once every three weeks mass feedback posting".   :D


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Post Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:08 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:
I don't believe feedback negative feedback is always unwarranted, but how would you deal with a situation where it was unwarranted?  For example, exactly how would you have felt to be in Mike's position with the psycho buyer who bounced a check on him and yet still left him a neg?


Cost of doing business.  

Even the best can't please everyone.  Don't sell if you don't want to risk the occasional "asshole" buyer.

(by the way . . . I would have been raging pissed off!  But still, what can be done?  I'd probably have sent the buyer a super polite email to discuss the situation and see if a mutual withdrawal was possible . . . if not . ..  )  :cry:


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Post Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:12 pm 
 

I should probably also add that feedback for a lot of us who have been at this thing for awhile now is a bit overrated(unless of course your name is David Whitfield, as it seems to justify his existance on this planet in his own mind :roll: ) .  I say that because as someone earlier pointed out(I think it was Mike) that once you get over say the 500 feedback socre mark, it doesn't really matter that much how much higher your feedback goes.  I mean my feedback is sitting at 1333 wth a 99.9% positive feedback rating and I really don't think that people look at me any better or any worse than they did when my feedback was 690 with a 99.8% positive feedback rating.

IMHO, I also think that feedback is far more important to a seller than it is to a buyer.  As has been pointed out here in the past during this type discussion, buyers are far more likely to avoid a seller who has poor feedback then a seller is to avoid a buyer who has poor feedback, it is just the nature of the game.


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Post Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:15 pm 
 

OK, on a similar note, yet not quite the same.

Sellers (and I am speaking of you few BIG TIMERS) what truly have you to worry about from idiot buyers? I mean really..... some folks wont be happy even if you deliver a minty item in person with a smile and a bow tie on.

Whats a negative once a year amongst 7 THOUSAND positives?


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Post Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:17 pm 
 

Aneoth wrote:Whats a negative once a year amongst 7 THOUSAND positives?



Another reason not to buy from you and to go somewhere else. :)


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Post Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:24 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:Another reason not to buy from you and to go somewhere else. :)
OUCH..... now that hurt......  8O  :(


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Post Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:26 pm 
 

Aneoth wrote:OUCH..... now that hurt......  8O  :(


Aneoth, my comment was not "you" specific, it was "you" general.    I am most certainly not saying that I am not going to buy from Aneoth, I am simple pointing out that in a buyers mind a negative from another buyer on a sellers record whether it is legit or not, can cause them to spend their money elsewhere. :wink:


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Last edited by bclarkie on Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  

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Post Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:27 pm 
 

Aneoth wrote:OK, on a similar note, yet not quite the same.

Sellers (and I am speaking of you few BIG TIMERS) what truly have you to worry about from idiot buyers? I mean really..... some folks wont be happy even if you deliver a minty item in person with a smile and a bow tie on.

Whats a negative once a year amongst 7 THOUSAND positives?


i sell a fair bit but nowhere near as much as the others here such as bri/btb/mike, but lemme tell you this. i wear my heart on the sleeve and have always done. if i do a good job and someone slaps me one for the hell of it and it isnt justified, believe me, on pure principle, i will get in my car and go there personally. i have come mighty close to that on a few occasions but its always just about worked out (damn)....but the time will come.

i think some ppl are just muppets and there is no getting away from it. there should be a facility on ebay where these kind of things can get sorted properly and not through the shite channels that you have at the moment.

Al



  


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Post Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:58 pm 
 

I leave feedback upon payment immediately (or at least as soon as I get around to it). If the buyer pays me, he's done his job. If he wants to retaliate with a negative, so be it. There are just not enough bad buyers to make it a major issue for me.

In any event, I find feedback over 50 becomes irrelevant anyways. Unless you are getting chain negatives, buyers typically won't adjust their bids. Personally, I buy a lot of stuff on faith or with sellers with minimal feedback. Moreover, a few negatives doesn't really make a difference because it is only natural for some transactions to not work out.

In fact, I would argue you are often better bidding on somebody with a low feedback than with a high feedback. The former is much more sensitive to getting a negative.

All this talk about procedure .. simply to avoid negatives.. actually further waters down what feedback is supposed to be about.

  

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Post Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:50 pm 
 

i dont have a problem at all with the feedback. i think the system is wrong, but whatever....

i sell more than i buy and i always leave feedback first, as anyone who has dealt with me will say.

but its just plain wrong when someone abuses it and i guess i wont have ppl lying thats all. if its a fair point for what i am being negged for, so be it, i am big enough to take one on the chin...

anyway...

Al



  


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Post Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:45 pm 
 

Okay just to give my own concrete example on how some buyers can be unreasonable and the seller could potentially rack up a totally unwarranted neg, take a look at this feedback that this guy gave me:



http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d ... =-1&de=off





Now granted the buyer did actually give me a positive, but when someone looks at it without knowing the full details behind what the buyer wrote, they might rightfully think that this buyer had some issues that he contancted me about that I never responded to.  Unfortunately, a seemingly back handed positive like this could have very well been a negative.



Now, here is the story behind this particular "positive feedback" I received.  The bidder in question won this item on Jnauary 9th at 4pm EST, he paid for the item that he won also on the 9th, later on that same evening.  I shipped this book out the next morning, January 10th.  The buyer left feedback on January 12th which means he received the item in question in less than 3 full days from the day that the auction ended!!  As evidenced by his feedback he was happy with bith the item itself and he was also happy with the dispatch time. What he wasnt happy about the fact that I didn't communicate to him when the item was being shipped out, even though he received it in less than 3 days time.  The worst part about it is the fact that he never even asked me to let him know that when I was shipping the item out, he just expected that I should know what he wanted. :roll:   So the real problem lies in the fact that the buyer did not communicate to me his desire to be told when the item was being shipped out and yet he felt the need to negatively note in my feedback that I didn't communicate because I couldn't read his mind about what he wanted.  Now, another buyer comes along later and potentially sees this back-handed positive in my feedback and wonders to themselves, "Hmm if I buy something from this guy, is he also going to ignore my communications, especially if there is a problem that I need worked out?", because the potential buyer doesn't know the full story behind this back-handed positive feedback and therefore, I could actually lose a potential bidder. Even though this feedback is listed as a positive it just has easily could have been listed as a negative despite the fact that the transaction itself was about as good as I could have done on my end.


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Post Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:02 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:The worst part about it is the fact that he never even asked me to let him know that when I was shipping the item out, he just expected that I should know what he wanted. :roll:


What, you can't read minds Brian?  :wink:

Some people (especially new buyers) are just that way.  They expect you to know exactly what they want.  When I first started buying on Ebay I was meticulous about everything I did.  When I won an auction that the description stated that I had to contact them, I emailed them as soon as the auction was over.  If the description stated that they would email me, I waited for them.  But either way I always emailed the seller when the auction ended and when I received the item.  I always made sure that my shipping requests were easy to understand and I was always very polite.  If the seller didnt communicate with me in the same manner, I didnt give it a whole lot of thought but when I left feedback I didnt mention it either.

Now that Ebay has automated everything it is much easier to communicate but less personal.  I dont normally add any comments when I checkout anymore and rarely do I get any sort of communication from the seller.  There are some exceptions though (most of them are from Acaeum members).  If you are worried about buyers like the one above you could either make it a point to email every buyer to let them know when the item was shipped or you could do what Guido usually does and post positive feedback with the ship date after receiving payment.  From what I know of you I seriously doubt that you would consider the latter.  :)

  

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Post Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:23 pm 
 

I don't think you can have a set process for leaving feedback. When I sell stuff (which I admit isn't very often) I'll usually leave feedback first, but in some instances I don't. If the buyer has very low feedback, or if there was an undue delay in paying, or if they do something that raises a red flag that they're not playing with a full deck or have unreasonable expectations - then I might hold off. I've had a couple of instances where I've held off for some reason and received emails from the buyer asking where their feedback is, but so far everything has worked out smoothly.

When I buy (which is much more often) I have no problem leaving feedback first. If the item arrives and is as described, then the seller gets good feedback. He can leave me feedback before or after that, it's not an issue for me at all.

So as a seller, if you have a feedback or 20 or so, seem reasonable and I don't have to chase you for payment, I leave feedback first. As a buyer, you get feedback if I'm happy with the item (and if I'm not, I'll explain my issue to you and see if we can work it out before even thinking about leaving bad feedback).

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Post Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:47 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:
Aneoth, my comment was not "you" specific, it was "you" general.    I am most certainly not saying that I am not going to buy from Aneoth, I am simple pointing out that in a buyers mind a negative from another buyer on a sellers record whether it is legit or not, can cause them to spend their money elsewhere. :wink:

Yup I Got it........  :wink:


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Post Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:55 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote: What he wasnt happy about the fact that I didn't communicate to him when the item was being shipped out……. he never even asked me to let him know that when I was shipping the item out…….
This could easily be my own story. I do not know it though. I have asked the seller what the deal was after I paid, to which E-Mail I have not been responded to by him. And he since he never acknowledged receipt of my funds from Paypal either; although my PayPal account certainly indicates that he was sent the funds.

That is why I have not gone ballistic about this yet. He may be too busy spending my money to send me a responding E-Mail.

BTW: He currently has about a dozen other items on sale, though none are D&D. Looks more like a yard sale really………


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Post Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:08 pm 
 

Aneoth wrote:OK, on a similar note, yet not quite the same.

Sellers (and I am speaking of you few BIG TIMERS) what truly have you to worry about from idiot buyers? I mean really..... some folks wont be happy even if you deliver a minty item in person with a smile and a bow tie on.

Whats a negative once a year amongst 7 THOUSAND positives?


That person will seek out your one negative and base all his opinions about you on that, ignoring the thousands of positives.  Seriously.  I had a guy from Japan leave a negative last year..."Roach found in book".  Now, did I delibertly place a bug in his book?  Why on earth leave that neg?  I have no idea where the bug came from.  Obviously its not a recurring problem (I've never had anyone say that before).  I would have refunded him his money and or replaced the book if he had merely contacted me beforehand!  Instead, with that unsavory feedback, be it only one out of thousands, anyone trolling my feedback that sees that immediately focuses on that and forms negative connotations inhis mind. Forget the 7000 positives, this dude sells books with bugs in them!!!!!  

The reason I know this?  For a few weeks afterwards I got inquiries on this very subject from potential buyers!!!!!  "Do you store your books inside or outside?" (Inside in my office). "Have you had a problem with silverfish?" (No).  And a couple other questions like this.  

Its not right, but the effect of just a few negs can be far reaching.  Look at guys like Cougie.  Overall, not many negs, but man, if you read between the lines you see a totally disfunctional seller there.   Which is why myself and many of his here won't do business with him.

Overall, I would say not leaving feedback first, as a seller, really slows down the idiot buyer feedback and it has done wonders clearing stupid emails out of my inbox over the years...

Oh yeh, and my feedback received has gone way, way up since I started leaving it after the buyer did...I probably got less than 50% of my feedback when I left it first, now I get quite a bit more.  So it even helps there...

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:12 pm 
 

Beyondthebreach wrote:

Cost of doing business.  

Even the best can't please everyone.  Don't sell if you don't want to risk the occasional "asshole" buyer.

(by the way . . . I would have been raging pissed off!  But still, what can be done?  I'd probably have sent the buyer a super polite email to discuss the situation and see if a mutual withdrawal was possible . . . if not . ..  )  :cry:




You are right, that is the cost of doing business. In that case, the dude got the item, positive feedback from me, his money back, and left me a neg....I couldn't have gotten more ass whipped unless he'd driven over and beat up my dog also!!! But thankfully those sorts of morons are very rare (and I did get the asshat kicked off ebay....permanently it seems, at least for that identity..) But I will stick with that I think the entire episode would have been avoided if I hadn't left him feedback first....I think he would have approached the issue a little more respectfully, since at the time he had 100% feedback and several hundred positives.  People with 100% are very protective of their status and tend to not rock the boat too much....I think it could have been settled much more amicably if I had just waited to leave feedback....



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Post Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:16 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:
i sell a fair bit but nowhere near as much as the others here such as bri/btb/mike, but lemme tell you this. i wear my heart on the sleeve and have always done. if i do a good job and someone slaps me one for the hell of it and it isnt justified, believe me, on pure principle, i will get in my car and go there personally. i have come mighty close to that on a few occasions but its always just about worked out (damn)....but the time will come.

Al


Number one, I think that's why you've always had good dealings with Cougie, Al...he's scared of you.  and lives on the same continent.  :D

Number two, I wish you lived on the states, particularly the East coast.  This Jonb/EasternTReasureChest/Game Emporium stuff would have been nipped in the bud years ago......and the guy would have been shopping for new teeth........ :twisted:

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:13 pm 
 

I've made my thoughts pretty clear on some other similar threads — and I don't want to again be accused of "running anyne off" :roll: — so I'll refrain from adding to this specific discussion.

However, this thread has given me an idea for a poll. What I'm wondering is how many Acaeum regulars would consider themselves eBay sellers and how many would classify themselves as mostly buyers?

I just began the poll. It's at this location right here.

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Post Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:32 pm 
 

As a seller, I have the buyer leave feedback first, but it's truly more of a laziness factor than anything, though I do believe in the benefits of waiting to see what happens upon item arrival.  I can set up a filter in Seller Manager to have ebay post pos. feedback upon reciept of pos. feedback.  Posting feedback manually sucks, setting up a filter to post upon reciept of payment doesn't cover my payments by Money order, plus I DEFINANTLY don't want to give feedback right away to people with scary feedback left profiles, or for someone who might "shortchange" a paypal payment.  If I set it up to leave feedback after I get it, it handles all the problems for me.  On occasion if someone is freaky weird about having to have feedback first I just tell them to inform me when the item has safely arrived and they are satisfied with their purchase, which they can do by leaving feedback for me or emailing me and that if they do this by email I'll be happy to post feedback first.  I have almost never had to do that, once I explain that I just want to know that everything is fine before feedback is posted they almost always just go ahead and leave feedback for me.  Ebay feedback is FAR from a perfect system, and this is the best way I've found to deal with it en masse.

  
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