bclarkie wrote:
Well I consider myself an hoest seller and yet based on my past experiences, things just are not all nice and tidy like we would like them to be.  

I should add that many honest sellers (like the folks here) adopt this "buyer leaves feedback first policy".  We all know that many "not-so-honest" or "downright dishonest" sellers use it as well.

Personally, I think you Honest guys would have essentially the same feedback overall if you left it first, but I can understand your Point of View.

I still will always leave feedback first - that is, if the buyer can wait for me to get my lazy ass 'round to my "once every three weeks mass feedback posting".  

I should probably also add that feedback for a lot of us who have been at this thing for awhile now is a bit overrated(unless of course your name is David Whitfield, as it seems to justify his existance on this planet in his own mind ) .  I say that because as someone earlier pointed out(I think it was Mike) that once you get over say the 500 feedback socre mark, it doesn't really matter that much how much higher your feedback goes.  I mean my feedback is sitting at 1333 wth a 99.9% positive feedback rating and I really don't think that people look at me any better or any worse than they did when my feedback was 690 with a 99.8% positive feedback rating.

IMHO, I also think that feedback is far more important to a seller than it is to a buyer.  As has been pointed out here in the past during this type discussion, buyers are far more likely to avoid a seller who has poor feedback then a seller is to avoid a buyer who has poor feedback, it is just the nature of the game.

Aneoth wrote:Whats a negative once a year amongst 7 THOUSAND positives?

Another reason not to buy from you and to go somewhere else.

Aneoth wrote:OUCH..... now that hurt......    

Aneoth, my comment was not "you" specific, it was "you" general.    I am most certainly not saying that I am not going to buy from Aneoth, I am simple pointing out that in a buyers mind a negative from another buyer on a sellers record whether it is legit or not, can cause them to spend their money elsewhere.

I leave feedback upon payment immediately (or at least as soon as I get around to it). If the buyer pays me, he's done his job. If he wants to retaliate with a negative, so be it. There are just not enough bad buyers to make it a major issue for me.

In any event, I find feedback over 50 becomes irrelevant anyways. Unless you are getting chain negatives, buyers typically won't adjust their bids. Personally, I buy a lot of stuff on faith or with sellers with minimal feedback. Moreover, a few negatives doesn't really make a difference because it is only natural for some transactions to not work out.

In fact, I would argue you are often better bidding on somebody with a low feedback than with a high feedback. The former is much more sensitive to getting a negative.

All this talk about procedure .. simply to avoid negatives.. actually further waters down what feedback is supposed to be about.

Okay just to give my own concrete example on how some buyers can be unreasonable and the seller could potentially rack up a totally unwarranted neg, take a look at this feedback that this guy gave me:



http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d ... =-1&de=off





Now granted the buyer did actually give me a positive, but when someone looks at it without knowing the full details behind what the buyer wrote, they might rightfully think that this buyer had some issues that he contancted me about that I never responded to.  Unfortunately, a seemingly back handed positive like this could have very well been a negative.



Now, here is the story behind this particular "positive feedback" I received.  The bidder in question won this item on Jnauary 9th at 4pm EST, he paid for the item that he won also on the 9th, later on that same evening.  I shipped this book out the next morning, January 10th.  The buyer left feedback on January 12th which means he received the item in question in less than 3 full days from the day that the auction ended!!  As evidenced by his feedback he was happy with bith the item itself and he was also happy with the dispatch time. What he wasnt happy about the fact that I didn't communicate to him when the item was being shipped out, even though he received it in less than 3 days time.  The worst part about it is the fact that he never even asked me to let him know that when I was shipping the item out, he just expected that I should know what he wanted.   So the real problem lies in the fact that the buyer did not communicate to me his desire to be told when the item was being shipped out and yet he felt the need to negatively note in my feedback that I didn't communicate because I couldn't read his mind about what he wanted.  Now, another buyer comes along later and potentially sees this back-handed positive in my feedback and wonders to themselves, "Hmm if I buy something from this guy, is he also going to ignore my communications, especially if there is a problem that I need worked out?", because the potential buyer doesn't know the full story behind this back-handed positive feedback and therefore, I could actually lose a potential bidder. Even though this feedback is listed as a positive it just has easily could have been listed as a negative despite the fact that the transaction itself was about as good as I could have done on my end.

I don't think you can have a set process for leaving feedback. When I sell stuff (which I admit isn't very often) I'll usually leave feedback first, but in some instances I don't. If the buyer has very low feedback, or if there was an undue delay in paying, or if they do something that raises a red flag that they're not playing with a full deck or have unreasonable expectations - then I might hold off. I've had a couple of instances where I've held off for some reason and received emails from the buyer asking where their feedback is, but so far everything has worked out smoothly.

When I buy (which is much more often) I have no problem leaving feedback first. If the item arrives and is as described, then the seller gets good feedback. He can leave me feedback before or after that, it's not an issue for me at all.

So as a seller, if you have a feedback or 20 or so, seem reasonable and I don't have to chase you for payment, I leave feedback first. As a buyer, you get feedback if I'm happy with the item (and if I'm not, I'll explain my issue to you and see if we can work it out before even thinking about leaving bad feedback).

Regards

Mike

bclarkie wrote: What he wasnt happy about the fact that I didn't communicate to him when the item was being shipped out……. he never even asked me to let him know that when I was shipping the item out…….

This could easily be my own story. I do not know it though. I have asked the seller what the deal was after I paid, to which E-Mail I have not been responded to by him. And he since he never acknowledged receipt of my funds from Paypal either; although my PayPal account certainly indicates that he was sent the funds.

That is why I have not gone ballistic about this yet. He may be too busy spending my money to send me a responding E-Mail.

BTW: He currently has about a dozen other items on sale, though none are D&D. Looks more like a yard sale really………

Beyondthebreach wrote:

Cost of doing business.  

Even the best can't please everyone.  Don't sell if you don't want to risk the occasional "asshole" buyer.

(by the way . . . I would have been raging pissed off!  But still, what can be done?  I'd probably have sent the buyer a super polite email to discuss the situation and see if a mutual withdrawal was possible . . . if not . ..  )  

You are right, that is the cost of doing business. In that case, the dude got the item, positive feedback from me, his money back, and left me a neg....I couldn't have gotten more ass whipped unless he'd driven over and beat up my dog also!!! But thankfully those sorts of morons are very rare (and I did get the asshat kicked off ebay....permanently it seems, at least for that identity..) But I will stick with that I think the entire episode would have been avoided if I hadn't left him feedback first....I think he would have approached the issue a little more respectfully, since at the time he had 100% feedback and several hundred positives.  People with 100% are very protective of their status and tend to not rock the boat too much....I think it could have been settled much more amicably if I had just waited to leave feedback....



Mike B.