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Post Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:12 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:Yes, but if you read the fine print you discover that you have to order at least 10,000 copies at a time for $750 and $90 shipping (actual figures).

I could buy something from Cougarrinard for that much!


So it seems.  The last time I thought about it, you could still get that one in a "sampler pack" of them for a few bucks.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:31 pm 
 

HermitFromPluto wrote:
That is hilarious! Thanks for posting.

It is interesting, I believe a lot of the occult stems from conservative religious elements. They are the ones that define it and say it is real. i.e. if you do this you have veered form the way and are doing the devils business.

In RPGs any half-intelligent person knows it is fiction and a fun game, just like immersing oneself in a movie or a book. Yet it is the conservative religious types that 'attach reality' to it. They make people feel insecure, make people fear, preach a doctrine, which is essentially 'magic'.

Who is living in the real world?


Yes, but you only say that because you're deceived by Satan. Oh yes.   :evil:


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:47 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:
Yes, but you only say that because you're deceived by Satan. Oh yes.   :evil:


Um...er...um...er...[breaks down]... perhaps you're right. Oh can you free me from the bondage of my D&D collection.......

Hmmmm. Now how to get of all those damnable books and modules. Should I burn them? Yes.... I start with my 'R' series.....

  


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Post Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:58 am 
 

I don't remember any of this.  Does anyone know - did we have a similar scare in the UK?


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Post Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:15 am 
 

red_bus wrote:I don't remember any of this.  Does anyone know - did we have a similar scare in the UK?


i think it was similar, but not on the scale that the americans got it.

i remember my mum n dad frowning quite a bit at me and commenting whether i should be playing dungeons & dragons or not.

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Post Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:07 am 
 

Growing up in a small town there was quite a bit of talk about it and how it swayed kids to the occult, witchcraft, satanism, etc.  I remember several times having discussions with my grandparents about D&D.  They gave me the same tract and I remember thinking how stupid it was.  I tried explaining to them that playing the game was nothing like that but they didnt believe me.  These were the same grandparents that showed me articles from some Christian fundamentalist magazine that said rock bands like Van Halen and Journey were also Satan worshippers.  :roll:

Of course it didnt help when my DM got a copy of The Arcanum from Bard Games when he had his tonsils removed.  That silver pentacle on the cover of the book was just what his mother needed to start giving us a hard time about playing.  It ended up just adding more fuel to the fire.  He told his mom he needed some cat blood for a spell component and was going to kill their cat if he couldnt find a stray.  She absolutely freaked out.  It took about 20 minutes to explain to her that he was just joking and we were just some normal kids playing a game.  She actually threatened to take him to see a psychiatrist.  Absolutely frickin' hilarious.  :twisted:


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Post Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:07 am 
 

A couple years ago I got my son the 3e boxed set for Christmas. He was reading the rulebook at our family Christmas gathering, and my wacky sister-in-law saw it and said "That game's Satanic!" to which my son replied "So?"


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Post Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:07 am 
 

Nah, it wasn't that bad here. Remember that, despite being theoretically a Christian country, the UK is one of the most secular in Europe.

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Post Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:34 pm 
 

silver_beetle wrote:A couple years ago I got my son the 3e boxed set for Christmas. He was reading the rulebook at our family Christmas gathering, and my wacky sister-in-law saw it and said "That game's Satanic!" to which my son replied "So?"


Classic!!!!

My group was very lucky.  Basically, the most intelligent, straight laced, upright kid in the neighborhood, Joe, introduced us to D&D in the late 70s.  He had played it in Maryland before he moved to Texas, where not many people knew about it until he introduced us. Joe later went on to be Salutatorian at our high school, went to A&M through the Corps, served a decade in the Navy and became a Captain, and now is a successful doctor.  Not to mention he's happily married, goes to church, and has two genius kids that are even smarter and more well adjusted than he was.
  Whenever someone started rambling on about D&D and Satan, I always just brought up Joe (still do), and in every single instance they just basically trailed off and stopped talking, because of course the next line of inquiry was going to be what THEIR kids, who didn't play D&D, were doing with their lives (any Salutatorians? Captains in the Navy? Doctors? Genius kids? Didn't think so).  The mere presence of Joe at our gaming gatherings were enough to quiet an concerns my own parents, or other group members parents, had about the Devil-ness of the game.  I wonder how things could have been a lot different here in the bible belt without him to "run point" for us in our obsession.
 I only had to bitch slap someone once, it was a very good friend of my wife who meant well, when I was dating my wife to be she told her friend I played D&D, and her friend gave me a book to read that basically just ripped all fantasy, cartoons, gaming, and anything having to do with the imagination (Lambs to the Slaughter by Johanna Michaelson).  The book was a lot of laughs (especially the parts about the Smurfs being demonic, which I happen to agree with), but the friend began pressing me on the issue of D&D when we would see her.  I brought up Joe and how good he was doing, then asked her how her home schooled, Christian taught kids were doing, she went silent, my wife later told me she not only had a porn-obssessed husband who had left her for 24 hour a day online porn (not even for another woman), but an older daughter at 18 had ran off to Wisconsin with a man 20 years older than her (maybe they went to Lake Geneva????) and was popping out fun babies.  My wife still has never forgiven me for that, but at least the bitch friend shut up about D&D after that...

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Post Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:03 pm 
 

Great stories!
The only problem that our group ran into with fundamentalists was an unfortunate young man whose parents had raised him while they were doing missionary work in the jungles of South America.
He joined one of the local gaming groups when he was still in grade 12 where he was probably the most ostracized individual you can imagine.
Coke bottle thick horn rimmed glasses, bright red curly hair, the only footwear his parents would buy him were high gum rubber boots and his mom was frugal enough that when she packed his lunch any beverage was in a used shampoo bottle (I sh*t you not!).
Anyway, he started gaming and was quite enthused.He saved his meager allowance to buy a players handbook from the local gaming store.
Shortly afterwards everyone noticed that his parents had gone through the book with scissors and cut out all of the pictures/text that they thought was even slightly demonic or naughty.
This discouraged him so much (and embarrassed him) that he dropped out of gaming altogether.
I guess his parents were working hard to crush any thoughts that he might have that strayed beyond their narrow boundaries.   :evil:


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Post Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:32 pm 
 

jasonw1239 wrote:Great stories!
The only problem that our group ran into with fundamentalists was an unfortunate young man whose parents had raised him while they were doing missionary work in the jungles of South America.
He joined one of the local gaming groups when he was still in grade 12 where he was probably the most ostracized individual you can imagine.
Coke bottle thick horn rimmed glasses, bright red curly hair, the only footwear his parents would buy him were high gum rubber boots and his mom was frugal enough that when she packed his lunch any beverage was in a used shampoo bottle (I sh*t you not!).
Anyway, he started gaming and was quite enthused.He saved his meager allowance to buy a players handbook from the local gaming store.
Shortly afterwards everyone noticed that his parents had gone through the book with scissors and cut out all of the pictures/text that they thought was even slightly demonic or naughty.
This discouraged him so much (and embarrassed him) that he dropped out of gaming altogether.
I guess his parents were working hard to crush any thoughts that he might have that strayed beyond their narrow boundaries.   :evil:


Man that sucks. Too bad, who knows, had the kid kept playing D&D maybe he would have found a form of acceptance or friendship.

 Also reminded of a guy that gamed with my group during the 90s, I'm afraid I can't remember his name.  He answered an ad my group put in the local gaming store looking for a player.  I have no idea where or when he learned of D&D, because he very seldomly talked about himself, but he was a novice player when he joined (I thinkI had to loan him a rulebook or I might have just given him an extra).  He was a reliable, if quiet and unimaginative player. He got a lot of enjoyment out of basically just sitting and watching all the players and me interact, and would smile or laugh, but never offered anything beyond having his character (a halfling fighter I seem to remember) swing at a monster or bad guy.  Some sessions would go by without two sentences being spoken, but he always appeared to have fun. He seemed like a normal guy but never offered any information about himself or joined any conversations (we actually liked that about him, as we had at least one too many loudmouths in the group...)
   He worked a very hard manual labor job, I believe he installed neon signs or something, and would sometimes come straight from work all covered with crap.  One night, a friend dropped him off and he needed a ride home.  I was shocked when I dropped him off in front of what was basically a shack...a piece of crap house in a neighborhood I didn't even know existed. I could tell he was very embarrassed at his living conditions, and confided in me that his entire family lived in the house and shared bedrooms (even though he was in his 20s, he still lived at home).  I got the impression home life was very unhappy for him, and his father was a bit of a tyrant (and was the reasonhe was still living at home, because they needed his money to pay rent on the shithole...).  Anyway, that group eventually broke up and we actually didn't play D&D for almost a year, by that time I had lost his number.  He had called several times in the intervening year to ask if I had a new group yet, but I never saw him again after our last session.
 Looking back I have realized that probably the brightest spot of his week was the D&D sessions, when he could get away from the reality of his life and enjoy camaradarie around the table with people who didn't judge him or even ask that he interact with them.  I also feel really bad I never got back to him and hope that he found another group somewhere to game with. Truly, this is a hobby that welcomes the misfit with open arms, as they can imagine themselves as they want to be and not as they are, and for a short time are able to escape the brutal reality of their often beaten down lives (like my unnamed friend and the red haired kid).  I kick myself all the time I didn't write down this guy's number...

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Post Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 8:28 am 
 

Badmike wrote:My group was very lucky.  Basically, the most intelligent, straight laced, upright kid in the neighborhood, Joe, introduced us to D&D in the late 70s.  He had played it in Maryland before he moved to Texas, where not many people knew about it until he introduced us. Joe later went on to be Salutatorian at our high school, went to A&M through the Corps, served a decade in the Navy and became a Captain, and now is a successful doctor.  Not to mention he's happily married, goes to church, and has two genius kids that are even smarter and more well adjusted than he was.


Good for Joe. Just because you are a Christian, or any other faith, doesn't mean you have to turn your brain off. I'm a Christian, and I play D&D (well....read/collect more than play nowdays).

Many so-called Christians today would disapprove of the type of people that Jesus hung around with. His strongest reproofs were against the hypcritical religious leaders of the time, who cared more about appearances than they did about their fellow man.

In all the years I have played D&D (off and on since 1982), no one has ever tried to convert me to any religion/satanism/witchcraft or anything else. What I have noticed is that most D&D players have above average intelligence and imagination.

  


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:06 pm 
 

My dad was a minister when I was introduced to AD&D, back in '82. He and my mom bought a used PHB from a guy who put an ad in the paper. I was reading it (devouring it!) one night and my dad asked me what it was all about. So I told him. He said he was interested, so my house became the default D&D place for the next 3 years. My dad played a Cleric, naturally. To this day, he is the epitome of Clerics for me. He made up on his own god, a pseudo-Christian like mythos.

During the D&D scare of the early 80's, my dad happened to be at a ministers conference in Kansas City. The discussion came up about the 'evils ' of this game and the assembled crowd starting derriding it and planning on how to get it out of the hands of 'our youth'. My dad stands up and tells them all that he plays. He plays once a week, with his kids, and their friends. He tells them how much fun we have and how we are all together. He tells them how narrow minded they are and how he thinks they should look into it before they pass judgement.

When he told me this, I thought it was really cool. Looking back on it, it really gives me respect for my dad. Savelon, the Cleric.

(On a side note, a few weeks back I went to the Lake Geneva Gaming Con. I was lucky enough to play in a Lejendary Adventures game with Gary Gygax as our GM. I played a ecclesiatic (aka 'cleric') character. I named him Savelon in honor of my dad. We only played a few hours, but I kept the character sheet.)


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:41 pm 
 

khartsfield wrote:My dad was a minister when I was introduced to AD&D, back in '82. He and my mom bought a used PHB from a guy who put an ad in the paper. I was reading it (devouring it!) one night and my dad asked me what it was all about. So I told him. He said he was interested, so my house became the default D&D place for the next 3 years. My dad played a Cleric, naturally. To this day, he is the epitome of Clerics for me. He made up on his own god, a pseudo-Christian like mythos.

During the D&D scare of the early 80's, my dad happened to be at a ministers conference in Kansas City. The discussion came up about the 'evils ' of this game and the assembled crowd starting derriding it and planning on how to get it out of the hands of 'our youth'. My dad stands up and tells them all that he plays. He plays once a week, with his kids, and their friends. He tells them how much fun we have and how we are all together. He tells them how narrow minded they are and how he thinks they should look into it before they pass judgement.

When he told me this, I thought it was really cool. Looking back on it, it really gives me respect for my dad. Savelon, the Cleric.

(On a side note, a few weeks back I went to the Lake Geneva Gaming Con. I was lucky enough to play in a Lejendary Adventures game with Gary Gygax as our GM. I played a ecclesiatic (aka 'cleric') character. I named him Savelon in honor of my dad. We only played a few hours, but I kept the character sheet.)



Your dad sounds like a helluva man, and a good example of what a Christian should be, instead of the hypocritcal, sanctimonious scumbags we so often get stuck with in this "REAL" world....

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Post Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:02 pm 
 

You'll find that all people who allow religion to dominate their lives are hypocritcal, sanctimonious scumbags, regardless of what religion they are. This is because there are almost no religions which allow for tolerance of OTHER religions. Why do you think it is Muslims who are blowing themselves up? Catholics/Christians are no different, if you aren't of their religion you are going to burn, period.
Religion has been responsible for more deaths than any other single cause in the history of the world.


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:26 pm 
 

Deadlord39 wrote:You'll find that all people who allow religion to dominate their lives are hypocritcal, sanctimonious scumbags, regardless of what religion they are. This is because there are almost no religions which allow for tolerance of OTHER religions. Why do you think it is Muslims who are blowing themselves up? Catholics/Christians are no different, if you aren't of their religion you are going to burn, period.
Religion has been responsible for more deaths than any other single cause in the history of the world.


...wow, just wow. 8O


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:57 pm 
 

Deadlord39 wrote:You'll find that all people who allow religion to dominate their lives are hypocritcal, sanctimonious scumbags, regardless of what religion they are. This is because there are almost no religions which allow for tolerance of OTHER religions. Why do you think it is Muslims who are blowing themselves up? Catholics/Christians are no different, if you aren't of their religion you are going to burn, period.
Religion has been responsible for more deaths than any other single cause in the history of the world.


More than disease?

Not all Christians are of the "Believe or Burn" variety. The ones that are, I find, are generally the type of people I don't have anything to do with anyway, nor associate with in my day to day activities.  Such a narrow definition of who is "saved" generally cuts down on their circle of "friends", anyway.....

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Post Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:10 pm 
 

I'm beginning to regret my original post about the chick publications handout.
I have to remember that a forum is like the unwritten rules of walking into a strange bar:
1. Don't bring up anything about politics
2. Don't bring up anything about religion

:oops:


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:36 pm 
 

jasonw1239 wrote:I'm beginning to regret my original post about the chick publications handout.
I have to remember that a forum is like the unwritten rules of walking into a strange bar:
1. Don't bring up anything about politics
2. Don't bring up anything about religion

:oops:


3.  Don't bring up anything about college football (for some people this substitutes as both politics AND religion..)

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Post Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:46 pm 
 

I think most of us here are mature enough to discuss most any subject without getting angry or hurling insults, well...except for college football.  :P

  
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