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Post Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 12:05 pm 
 

Remember this, when you hear about global "Warming" :

[1]  Just remember that many of the same people who are now yelling about global "warming" . . . were the same people and organizations who were yelling about global "COOLING" in the 1970's, an "inconvenient fact" that many of those on the "pro-'warming' " side want all of us to ignore or forget.

And . . .

[2]  If it wasn't for global warming over the last several thousand years . . . many of us in the northern half or so of North America and Europe would be under several thousand feet or so of ICE.  And, there weren't any cars, smokestacks, etc. for almost all of that time.

All I ask is . . . . . . think about it.

  

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Post Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 12:16 pm 
 

Start Terraforming Mars NOW! (and no not our Canadian fellow here on the boards, the planet... :) )

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Post Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 12:27 pm 
 

sleepyCO wrote:All I ask is . . . . . . think about it.


I have thought about it, and it's irrelevant.

The perfect analogy is that many species went extinct long before Homo sapiens existed, but that in itself does not refute the role of humans in ongoing extinctions.


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Post Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 12:51 pm 
 

sleepyCO wrote:Remember this, when you hear about global "Warming" :

[1]  Just remember that many of the same people who are now yelling about global "warming" . . . were the same people and organizations who were yelling about global "COOLING" in the 1970's, an "inconvenient fact" that many of those on the "pro-'warming' " side want all of us to ignore or forget.

And . . .

[2]  If it wasn't for global warming over the last several thousand years . . . many of us in the northern half or so of North America and Europe would be under several thousand feet or so of ICE.  And, there weren't any cars, smokestacks, etc. for almost all of that time.

All I ask is . . . . . . think about it.


Wall Street Journal did have a funny article about Greenland and global warming a few weeks ago...about how some are HAPPY about the warming....as they can finally see the ground after all these years!  Some have actually started planting crops to grow in the very short summer. One man's global warming is another's sweet potatos....

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Post Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 1:03 pm 
 

I wonder who those people are.  Universally, my experience in talking to the local Inuit in Greenland is that they're really upset about climate change.  Losing your village in a landslide that sweeps it into the ocean or to a raging river flowing out from under the Inland Ice, or from a lake on top of the ice that has breached its natural levee are not things taken lightly among the people I know up there.

Wall Street Journal, eh?   :?


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Post Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 1:31 pm 
 

I am concerned about global warning.

But, I also remember that the last people who cultivated Greenland were expatriots from Iceland...in the Viking Age.

Europe went through several centuries of warm weather that made the voyages to America possible and fueled the High Middle Ages.

About 1400, the Greenland colonies died out.  Exactly why is a mystery (there were probably multiple causes), but the return of colder weather in the North Atlantic surely played a part.

One can only hope that's what we're seeing again...but I fear not.

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 1:43 pm 
 

bombadil wrote:I wonder who those people are.  Universally, my experience in talking to the local Inuit in Greenland is that they're really upset about climate change.  Losing your village in a landslide that sweeps it into the ocean or to a raging river flowing out from under the Inland Ice, or from a lake on top of the ice that has breached its natural levee are not things taken lightly among the people I know up there.

Wall Street Journal, eh?   :?


Well here's one...found the article but I don't know my password so couldn't get the entire thing:

For Icy Greenland, Global Warming Has a Bright Side
By Lauren Etter

QAQORTOQ, Greenland -- Stefan Magnusson lives at the foot of a giant, melting glacier. Some think he's living on the brink of a cataclysm. He believes he's on the cusp of creation.

The 49-year-old reindeer rancher says a warming trend in Greenland over the past decade has caused the glacier on his farm to retreat 300 feet, revealing land that hasn't seen the light of day for hundreds of years, if not more. Where ice once gripped the earth, he says, his reindeer now graze on wild thyme amid the purple blooms of Niviarsiaq ...



Now before anyone rips the WSJ as being "obviously" in favor of debunking global warming, they have run several articles supporting the global warming crowd also...one which I believe mentioned the points you have brough up earlier, Bom:

DEBATING GLOBAL WARMING
Global Warming Skeptics
Are Facing Storm Clouds
By ANTONIO REGALADO
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
A big flap at a little scientific journal is raising questions about a study that has been embraced by conservative politicians for its rejection of widely held global-warming theories.
The study, by two astronomers at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, says the 20th century wasn't unusually warm compared with earlier periods and contradicts evidence indicating man made "greenhouse" gases are causing temperatures to rise.
Since being published last January in Climate Research, the paper has been widely promoted by Washington think tanks and cited by the White House in revisions made to a recent Environmental Protection Agency report. At the same time, it has drawn stinging rebukes from other climate scientists.
This week, three editors of Climate Research resigned in protest over the journal's handling of the review process that approved the study; among them is Hans von Storch, the journal's recently appointed editor in chief. "It was flawed and it shouldn't have been published," he said.


Anyway, my allegiance lies firmly in the middle as always with this debate.  Like the Kennedy assassination, it's going to take decades for screaming fanatics on both sides to finally calm down enough to look at the problem objectively.... (not saying you are one of these Bom...but I think we can all identify the main offenders)

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Post Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 2:41 pm 
 

Heh, that's funny.  I know that guy.  I did some work for him many years ago.  I helped out with his annual slaughter one year.  My job was to take the heads coming out of a little chute in the side of the slaughter house, lay them up on a stantion, upside down, pull back the mandible, cut it loose, and cut out the tongue.  There was a pile of heads stacked up around me at the end of every day.  Very cold work.  No gloves, blowing snow, bloody knife handle slippery as hell.  He was also on an episode of Lonely Planet shot in Greenland.  He's from Iceland, incidentally.  

He lives way down on the southern tip of Greenland, near Cape Farewell.  We almost went down at sea together in a terrible storm while navigating Bredefjord in his little boat.  Quite a ride.   :D

Yeah, I'm sure there are many up there who are glad to see it warming up, for whatever reasons, but I haven't met any traditional natives who feel that way.

Thanks for the clips, Mike!


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Post Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 4:20 pm 
 

bombadil wrote:...There was a pile of heads stacked up around me at the end of every day.  Very cold work.  No gloves, blowing snow, bloody knife handle slippery as hell...


That is SO cool! My new sig :)


bombadil wrote:...There was a pile of heads stacked up around me at the end of every day.  Very cold work.  No gloves, blowing snow, bloody knife handle slippery as hell...

  


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Post Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 4:54 pm 
 

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

There's a lot more to tell from that little adventure.  Ahhh, the frozen north.  So rich in experiences, and vastly under-appreciated.

Kind of like Philly.   :D


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Post Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 6:03 pm 
 

bombadil wrote::lol:  :lol:  :lol:

There's a lot more to tell from that little adventure.  Ahhh, the frozen north.  So rich in experiences, and vastly under-appreciated.

Kind of like Philly.   :D


You mean people in Greenland also have a courtroom and a jail built right into their football stadium?  Cool?


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Post Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 9:48 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:
Like the Kennedy assassination, it's going to take decades for screaming fanatics on both sides to finally calm down enough to look at the problem objectively....
Mike B.


Speaking of which, have you seen this book (tome?):

Reclaiming History: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy by Vincent Bugliosi?

I've always been fascinated by the JFK assassination.  

I went from being a conspiracy believer to a lone gunman believer to not really giving a rat's ass, but when I saw this 1600 [sic] page book devoted to proving the lone gunman hypothesis, I had to at least take a look.  

So I picked it up (and then put it down again due to upper body strain) and stood in B&N and read the first 20 ppg of 10-point font just standing there in the bookstore.  

I doubt I'll buy it (at $50), but it's worth taking a look at while you drink a $9 cup of coffee.  The author does an incredible job of asking very fundamental questions that have simply been ignored for the last 40 years.

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Post Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 10:01 pm 
 

Keith the Thief wrote:
Speaking of which, have you seen this book (tome?):

Reclaiming History: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy by Vincent Bugliosi?

I've always been fascinated by the JFK assassination.  

I went from being a conspiracy believer to a lone gunman believer to not really giving a rat's ass, but when I saw this 1600 [sic] page book devoted to proving the lone gunman hypothesis, I had to at least take a look.  

So I picked it up (and then put it down again due to upper body strain) and stood in B&N and read the first 20 ppg of 10-point font just standing there in the bookstore.  

I doubt I'll buy it (at $50), but it's worth taking a look at while you drink a $9 cup of coffee.  The author does an incredible job of asking very fundamental questions that have simply been ignored for the last 40 years.

Keith


Bugliosi did a fantastic job of pure RESEARCH, something a lot of the conspiracy freaks seem to forget in their zeal to blame Cuba, the Russians, the Mob, Nixon, whoever.  You gotta appreciate the sheer volume of time Bugliosi put into this study.  I flipped through it..just the appendices and index alone is bigger than some books.  Too bad it took this long to come out with what may be the definitive work on this moment in history...but I guess with time comes perspective.

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Post Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 10:03 pm 
 

bombadil wrote:Heh, that's funny.  I know that guy.  I did some work for him many years ago.  I helped out with his annual slaughter one year.  My job was to take the heads coming out of a little chute in the side of the slaughter house, lay them up on a stantion, upside down, pull back the mandible, cut it loose, and cut out the tongue.  There was a pile of heads stacked up around me at the end of every day.  Very cold work.  No gloves, blowing snow, bloody knife handle slippery as hell.  He was also on an episode of Lonely Planet shot in Greenland.  He's from Iceland, incidentally.  

He lives way down on the southern tip of Greenland, near Cape Farewell.  We almost went down at sea together in a terrible storm while navigating Bredefjord in his little boat.  Quite a ride.   :D

Yeah, I'm sure there are many up there who are glad to see it warming up, for whatever reasons, but I haven't met any traditional natives who feel that way.

Thanks for the clips, Mike!


Man, talk about a small world!!!! Wish I could have printed more of the articles...appears my online subscription has expired (and I'll just save the $25 and not resubscribe, I get the print version anyway...).

NO GLOVES???  I guess due to the exactness of the work?  Wow.  And here I thought I had some bad summer jobs.. :wink:

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Post Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 10:12 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:
Bugliosi did a fantastic job of pure RESEARCH, something a lot of the conspiracy freaks seem to forget in their zeal to blame Cuba, the Russians, the Mob, Nixon, whoever.  You gotta appreciate the sheer volume of time Bugliosi put into this study.  I flipped through it..just the appendices and index alone is bigger than some books.  Too bad it took this long to come out with what may be the definitive work on this moment in history...but I guess with time comes perspective.

Mike B.


Its funny, I just saw an article on Yahoo about a week ago that said that after further research that a lot of people are starting to believe that there may very well have been more than one gunman based on bullet fragmentation.

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/story/113526.html

Go figure. :?


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Post Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 10:28 pm 
 

I'm sure Bugliosi will have numerous detractors, but I did like a couple of the points he made:

Like why would Earl Warren, of Miranda fame, want to cover up the assassination of a Democrat by right-wing fanatics?

Or, why no one seems to have bothered to check the Warren report's findings that a military-trained sharpshooter can indeed fire 3 accurate shots with a Mannlicher-Carcano in the required time span.

Those are, of course, qualitative arguments and speculative at best, but they happened to catch my eye.

Well, whatever the quality of the book turns out to be, at least it brings some balance to the study in the popular press.

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Post Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 10:46 pm 
 

Keith the Thief wrote:I'm sure Bugliosi will have numerous detractors, but I did like a couple of the points he made:

Like why would Earl Warren, of Miranda fame, want to cover up the assassination of a Democrat by right-wing fanatics?

Or, why no one seems to have bothered to check the Warren report's findings that a military-trained sharpshooter can indeed fire 3 accurate shots with a Mannlicher-Carcano in the required time span.

Those are, of course, qualitative arguments and speculative at best, but they happened to catch my eye.

Well, whatever the quality of the book turns out to be, at least it brings some balance to the study in the popular press.

Keith


Believe me, I wasn't offering any theories on it one way or another, I don't have a clue.  I mean I have read all the theories up until now both for a conspiracy and against it just like eveyone else has, I just found it interesting that even today, now almost 45 years later and its still being studied and it seems that there may very well never be a concensous agreement on what really happened.


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Post Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 9:15 am 
 

bclarkie wrote:
Believe me, I wasn't offering any theories on it one way or another, I don't have a clue.  I mean I have read all the theories up until now both for a conspiracy and against it just like eveyone else has, I just found it interesting that even today, now almost 45 years later and its still being studied and it seems that there may very well never be a concensous agreement on what really happened.


I got sidetracked last night, and I didn't get a chance to respond to your post of the fragmentation issue article.   It's been 2-3 years since I read anything in depth on the subject until I saw Reclaiming History.  While I found his introduction compelling, I also found the article you posted equally interesting.  That's a theory I do not remember having seen addressed before.  Thanks for the link.

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