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Post Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 8:52 am 
 

FormCritic wrote:Season 3 of Battlestar Galactica started slow...largely because the creators obviously convinced themselves they had "something to say"...to "make us think."

I think they got a lot of fanmail like the angry note I sent them.  Basically, "You are not as smart as you think you are...now get back up there and start shooting at Cylons!"

They must have read all of it because they got back on track by the end of the season.

Battlestar Galactica is fun to  watch while listening to the producer commentary podcast.  They are essentially a bunch of bedwetting Lefties putting on a show about a reality in which bedwetting Lefties are dead butt wrong all of the time.

Mark   8)


That's funny you say that Mark...I have  a friend, she's a huge BG fan, and she said the same thing....Her words were along the lines "It's like the writers are self-loathing leftists", so I guess that means the Hollywood Limosine Liberal writing the show doesn't really believe his/her beliefs?  Guess I'll have to watch the season to see what everyone means.

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Post Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 10:17 am 
 

Badmike wrote:In contrast the Lost finale really delivered, a lot of viewers were pissed that nothing seemed to happen the first two seasons....

Mike B.


I have never really understood why people that watch Lost, or TV shows in general, make statements like this.  Lost has been one of the most intriguing, baffling, entertaining shows to come along in awhile.  There have been a few episodes that were nothing but "filler" and didnt really add to the overall plot or move the story along as quickly as they might like.  But if every episode did what these impatient viewers wanted the show would last a single season...maybe two...and where would be the fun in that?

I am actually surprised that a show like 24 has lasted as long as it has.  Every episode is chock full of action and devastating events for the most part...it just never slows down.  But after six seasons the same old stuff is getting not only boring but downright predictable and unbelievable.  Typical episode plot:  Jack is happy, terrorists blow up something, Jack hunts terrorists, Chloe is a bitch and does something stupid, CTU is compromised, Jack interrogates bad-guy, Jack finds terrorists, terrorists escape, Jack foils (insert disaster) plan, a bunch of people die, Jack is unhappy, end of season.  Dont get me wrong, I enjoy watching 24, but they just rehash the same old plot year after year with a few minor differences.

For the most part I think Lost has been very well paced and I have always enjoyed the back story of most of the characters.  Another great thing about the show is they have no problems killing off a popular character.  I was stunned when Mr. Eko was killed and it remains to be seen whether Locke will survive the gunshot wound (I Tivo'ed the episode and havent seen it yet so if he did....DON'T SPOIL IT!!!).  A lot of important events happenned all throughout the first two seasons.  I think that there are just a bunch of impatient viewers that didnt pay attention to detail and thought otherwise.

  

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Post Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 10:29 am 
 

FormCritic wrote:Season 3 of Battlestar Galactica started slow...largely because the creators obviously convinced themselves they had "something to say"...to "make us think."

Mark   8)


When I watch shows like BSG I filter out all of the nonsensical crap that the writers try to parallel the shows events with the real-world.  I dont want to think about Iraq, the cost of oil, or religion while watching fantasy\sci-fi.  I think the shows producers finally figured that out.

As for season 3...the episode where the Galactica and Pegasus rescued the colonists was probably my single favorite episode of the entire show.  That Admiral Adama guy has some monster testicles.  :wink:

  

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Post Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 2:39 pm 
 

Kingofpain89 wrote:
I have never really understood why people that watch Lost, or TV shows in general, make statements like this.  Lost has been one of the most intriguing, baffling, entertaining shows to come along in awhile.  There have been a few episodes that were nothing but "filler" and didnt really add to the overall plot or move the story along as quickly as they might like.  But if every episode did what these impatient viewers wanted the show would last a single season...maybe two...and where would be the fun in that?

I am actually surprised that a show like 24 has lasted as long as it has.  Every episode is chock full of action and devastating events for the most part...it just never slows down.  But after six seasons the same old stuff is getting not only boring but downright predictable and unbelievable.  Typical episode plot:  Jack is happy, terrorists blow up something, Jack hunts terrorists, Chloe is a bitch and does something stupid, CTU is compromised, Jack interrogates bad-guy, Jack finds terrorists, terrorists escape, Jack foils (insert disaster) plan, a bunch of people die, Jack is unhappy, end of season.  Dont get me wrong, I enjoy watching 24, but they just rehash the same old plot year after year with a few minor differences.

For the most part I think Lost has been very well paced and I have always enjoyed the back story of most of the characters.  Another great thing about the show is they have no problems killing off a popular character.  I was stunned when Mr. Eko was killed and it remains to be seen whether Locke will survive the gunshot wound (I Tivo'ed the episode and havent seen it yet so if he did....DON'T SPOIL IT!!!).  A lot of important events happenned all throughout the first two seasons.  I think that there are just a bunch of impatient viewers that didnt pay attention to detail and thought otherwise.


Most average TV viewers are, let's face it, stupid.  They liketo be led around by the hand and have all the signposts pointed out to them.  Which is why shows like Law and Order and CSI (with the exact samestrucutre every episode) explode in the ratings.  People say they want something different, but they are lying.  Two shows last season that failed (Kidnapped and Daybreak) offered quirky premises, excellent acting, plotting and storylines, and very non-traditional (for TV) structures; yet were deemed "too complex" for the average viewer and cancelled (I managed to watch the complete runs on the internet, both are really good and worth a look).
  That being said, it became very, very obvious about halfway through Season Two of Lost the writers had ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what they were doing or where they were going, despite any "grand plan" talk to the contrary.  That season could have been cut down from 22 episodes to 18 or 16 without any trouble whatsoever.  Basically the writers were stalling until something...anything...came to mind and they could pick up some new plot twists.  It was one of the most obvious "stall jobs" I've seen in TV history.  Of course, they managed to regroup in the "offseason" and turned in a above average, if not great, Season Three.  It seems the producers/writers of Lost have acknowledged the fact of "padding" the season, as word is the next three seasons will be only 18 episodes each and not the typical complement of 22 a season usually produces....hopefully this cuts down on the fluff and lets each episode have a punch, instead of painfully drawing out storylines to fill in time.
    And, to agree with you some more, besides the comments on "fluff" or "filler" episodes, most fans are upset that "everything hasn't been explained to them". Get real. Nothing kills a show like having A. The romantic leads finally consumate their love; B. The romantic leads getting married and pregnant; C. The Main Baddie getting caught and sent to jail; D. Or having all the mysteries explained in detail.

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Post Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:07 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:And, to agree with you some more, besides the comments on "fluff" or "filler" episodes, most fans are upset that "everything hasn't been explained to them". Get real. Nothing kills a show like having A. The romantic leads finally consumate their love; B. The romantic leads getting married and pregnant; C. The Main Baddie getting caught and sent to jail; D. Or having all the mysteries explained in detail.

Mike B.


That's what happened with X-Files.  Or was it that David Duchovny is just a whiny prick?  :D

Those were obviously just my opinions.  Lost isn't even my favorite show and never has been although this past season I have definitely enjoyed it more than the previous two seasons.  Boston Legal used to be my favorite show but it has gone a bit over the edge.  Now it's just Ally McBeal with different actors and no singing.  William Shatner is still funnier than hell.  Not a surprise since the producer is the same guy.  My Name is Earl is probably my second favorite show.  There is nothing funnier than trailertrash humor.  But at this point I gotta go with Jericho as my #1 show.  It took some time to take off but it has elements of just about every genre.  Mystery, action, romance, drama, and although there is no sci-fi/fantasy I think they do a pretty decent job of portraying a small town trying to deal with the aftermath of a major nuclear event in this country.

  

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Post Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 6:01 pm 
 

I've really enjoyed Smallville.  I happen to like the coming-of-age genre, so it appeals to me from that standpoint, and I also enjoy the fantasy elements.

By and large, the show has strong characterization, good acting, and good story arcs -- with the notable exception of some rubber monster episodes thrown in.

Much like JMS' Babylon 5, you know where the show is heading, you just don't know how the writers are going to get you there, and I like that.

I've never read comic books, BTW, but I've realized from watching the show that the Superman myth is so deeply embedded in our society that I am able to understand most of the quips and half-hidden jokes about Clark becoming Superman.

Well worth watching if you like this type of show.


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Post Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 7:29 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:
That's funny you say that Mark...I have  a friend, she's a huge BG fan, and she said the same thing....Her words were along the lines "It's like the writers are self-loathing leftists", so I guess that means the Hollywood Limosine Liberal writing the show doesn't really believe his/her beliefs?  Guess I'll have to watch the season to see what everyone means.

Mike B.


The Hollywood people behind Battlestar Galactica are the same Lefties that run most television in America.  Here they are, caught portraying the military in a positive, heroic light.  

The Lefty mantra is that guns and violence never solve anything...which makes them uncomfortable with situations in which guns and violence solve virtually every issue quite well.  Battlestar Galactica is a show where guns are present and crucial in nearly every situation.  It must make their skin crawl...as their podcast comments indicate.

(Of course, I am a viewer who watched the pilot of McGuyver...and saw that in the very first, opening, dire situation, McGuyver captured a gun and tossed it aside...and I immediatly changed the channels and never watched another episode.  McGuyver didn't believe in guns...which ought to have made things very tricky when the guns turned out to believe in McGuyver.)

Granted...we still have to put up with a BSG universe in which women routinely do things like win boxing matches with men and score record marks on strength and agility...but, hey, it is science fiction.

The present incarnation of Battlestar Galactica is truly a product of the current United States...where terrorism and evil personified have made Americans both more willing to kill and more willing to glorify those who do the killing.

The show is also a product of our era in that we do not like our heroes glittering and larger than life.  We prefer real people who look much more familiar to us...heroes with big faults who commit heroic acts out of desperation and in spite of their choking fear.  Add to that the classic post-modern American theme that the villains might not actually be the badguys.  The badguys might be us.

And, while I'm droning on, the 70's version of Battlestar Galactica, a romance about pretty Mormons in space, was also a product of the politics of its own time.  The pacificists in that series were responsible for the lack of vigilance that nearly destroyed mankind...and yet those pacifist leaders remained stubbornly blind to what must be done.  The parallels with America, the Soviet Union and the growing anti-war/anti-nuke movement of the era were obvious at the time.

The 3rd season stumbled badly because the writers obviously wanted to say something "important" about America and Iraq.  What they managed to do was nearly kill the best sci-fi TV series ever with their arrogance. But they managed to save the series when Adama jumped the Galactica into the atmosphere over New Caprica and solved everything with...yup...guns again.

One of the charms of Battlestar Galactica has been that at almost every turn, when the writers could go with the typical TV storyline, they have done the opposite.  In one episode, for instance, Apollo does not spare the cornered gang leader...("You won't do it.  You're not like me.")...he summarily executes him.

Also, the trial of Gaius Baltar, from late in the 3rd season, was some pretty good writing about law, justice and moral choices.

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 1:14 am 
 

FormCritic wrote:
(Of course, I am a viewer who watched the pilot of McGuyver...and saw that in the very first, opening, dire situation, McGuyver captured a gun and tossed it aside...and I immediatly changed the channels and never watched another episode.  McGuyver didn't believe in guns...which ought to have made things very tricky when the guns turned out to believe in McGuyver.)


Hmmm. . . . I did watch a number of McGuyver episodes and enjoyed seeing how he would get out of a situation without a gun--sometimes with just dirt, shoelaces, or whatever was handy. (and yes, I am "pro-gun").

Granted...we still have to put up with a BSG universe in which women routinely do things like win boxing matches with men and score record marks on strength and agility...but, hey, it is science fiction.


What else from a crowd who thinks Title IX is the best thing since chicken soup, and also thinks women ARE the physical equal of men?

And, while I'm droning on, the 70's version of Battlestar Galactica, a romance about pretty Mormons in space, was also a product of the politics of its own time.  


"Mormons in space"?????  Must've missed that version; what cable station was that version on? :)  I always had the impression that the original version was more biblical-based (even with tribal names that were our 12 signs of the Zodiac), more similar to the story of Moses leading the 12 tribes of Israel out of Egypt and the 40 years of wandering.

Also, it did suck in one important aspect:  too many multi-part episodes.  It seemed every other episode was a Part I, Part II or even Part III.  How can you run a series every week when it takes multiple parts to get through one episode?  If you're going to do that, run the show once a month as a movie of two or three hours instead of multiple shows to cover one episode.

  

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Post Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 8:30 am 
 

FormCritic wrote:The Hollywood people behind Battlestar Galactica are the same Lefties that run most television in America.  Here they are, caught portraying the military in a positive, heroic light.

Which people are the "Lefties"?  The network executives?  producers?  screenwriters?  actors?   Isn't money what runs television in America?

FormCritic wrote:And, while I'm droning on, the 70's version of Battlestar Galactica, a romance about pretty Mormons in space, was also a product of the politics of its own time. The pacificists in that series were responsible for the lack of vigilance that nearly destroyed mankind...and yet those pacifist leaders remained stubbornly blind to what must be done. The parallels with America, the Soviet Union and the growing anti-war/anti-nuke movement of the era were obvious at the time.

Lasers and explosions make for good special effects, unlike, say, a battle between two clerics:

. . . http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0456.html

  


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Post Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 8:54 am 
 

Without trying to get to political, lets try and remember that some of those lefty types who don't think a gun in every persons hands is the solution to the worlds problems, also visit this forum.  I should also point out because those lefty types think violence should be the last resort makes in some way weak or inferior, is also total and complete bullsh*t.  Aside from the fact that its utter bullsh*t, in my experience the first one looking to reach for their weapons are almost always the one who are afraid that they are going to get their ass kicked in.

I also find it quite hypocritical and frankly pathetic that a vast majority of the folks in the goverment who are "pro-war" & "pro-gun" are also the exact same ones who found ways to weasel out of going to Vietnam when it was their turn, i.e like Bush & Cheney and the ones who are considered "weak lefties" Kerry & Murtha spent years fighting in Vietnam.  Its always easiest to put up a tough guy facade and then send someone elses kid to go get f**king killed.  

Now lets stop with the politcal bullsh*t on this forum, it has no place here, the things that are being said are utterly false and its starting to piss me off. Yeah me one of the "weak" lefties. :roll:


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Post Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 9:14 am 
 

bclarkie wrote:Now lets stop with the politcal bullsh*t on this forum, it has no place here, the things that are being said are utterly false and its starting to piss me off. Yeah me one of the "weak" lefties. :roll:

Ah-ha!  I knew you were a Comm^H^H^H Lefty!   :wink:

  

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Post Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 9:29 am 
 

bclarkie wrote:Without trying to get to political, lets try and remember that some of those lefty types who don't think a gun in every persons hands is the solution to the worlds problems, also visit this forum.  I should also point out because those lefty types think violence should be the last resort makes in some way weak or inferior, is also total and complete bullsh*t.  Aside from the fact that its utter bullsh*t, in my experience the first one looking to reach for their weapons are almost always the one who are afraid that they are going to get their ass kicked in.

I also find it quite hypocritical and farnkly pathetic that a vast majority of the folks in the goverment who are "pro-war" & "pro-gun" are also the exact same ones who found ways to weasel out of going to Vietnam when it was thier turn, i.e like Bush & Cheney and the ones who are considered "weak lefties" Kerry & Murtha spend years fighting in Vietnam.  Its always easiest to put up a tough guy facade and then send someone elses kid to go get f**king killed.  

Now lets stop with the politcal bullsh*t on this forum, it has no place here, the things that are being said are utterly false and its starting to piss me off. Yeah me one of the "weak" lefties. :roll:


I don't give anyone on the right OR left a pass for hypocritical comments.  I think where the left gets hammered on this is because Hollywood is seen as overwhelmingly liberal/left, and use their position as writers/producers/actors to try and "make us think" about complex world events, when everything I see coming out of Hollywood makes me realize they are so out of touch with the average person in society and their lifestyles are so out of touch with my world, I dont want them telling me what they believe or think couched in a otherwise entertaining SF show.  To give equal time, the overwhelmingly conservative talk radio "patriots" also make me do an eye roll and a head shake when they start spouting off their inflammatory comments that have no place in my world...I would equally dislike a show spouting overly Bushian values (I can't say conservative, because at this point he's not, I don't know what he is anymore)

Shows like Battlestar Galactica are meant as exciting, entertaining diversions from real life....I think the point here was that the very annoying "distractions" put in my writers hoping they'll "make us think" about current world problems are unneccesary...I don't watch the evening news anymore because I don't want to be preached at, I sure don't want that in my SF viewing.

The entertainment industry, right and left, have always refused to understand we are a nation of contrasts....gun owners that vote democratic; conservatives that believe in right to choose, liberals that don't mind prayer in school; conservatives that aren't opposed to affirmative action.....and continally try to beat us into a "polarized" nation of black and white, right and left, because we are easier to control that way.  I have watched TV all my life and can play "spot the politics" with my wife during any program (mostly during sweeps week, when someone has to stop down the show to make an impassioned speech that sounds like it's coming out of the writer's mouth rather than the characters).  

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Post Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 11:03 am 
 

sleepyCO wrote:"Mormons in space"?????  Must've missed that version; what cable station was that version on? :)  I always had the impression that the original version was more biblical-based (even with tribal names that were our 12 signs of the Zodiac), more similar to the story of Moses leading the 12 tribes of Israel out of Egypt and the 40 years of wandering.


The setting of the original Battlestar Galactica was remarkably Mormon.  The writers were either Mormons or very familiar with Mormonism.

This statement is not intended as a perjorative or a dig against Mormons.  It's just true.


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Post Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 11:27 am 
 

So it would seem that this new version of BSG is actually a good show (?)

I was so utterly appalled by the original series that I never even bothered with the new one.

Does the Sci-Fi Channel re-run episodes so that someone can start from the beginning and catch up on the storyline?


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Post Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 11:39 am 
 

bclarkie wrote:Now lets stop with the politcal bullsh*t on this forum, it has no place here, the things that are being said are utterly false and its starting to piss me off. Yeah me one of the "weak" lefties. :roll:


To be accurate, bclarkie, the one being overtly political is you.  If you will read over your own posts, you will find that the one most frequently sounding off about politics and the Bush Administration is you.

I don't think you're wrong to do that because you usually confine such comments to the off topic thread.

If you read over my last two posts you will find that I actually state no political opnions at all except to point out the humor and enormous irony  in a show about grim and heroic war made by political leftists.

I didn't call our Lefties "weak."  I called them "bedwetting."

Bedwetting may not be a nice thing to say but it is a common, humorous reference to certain types of American liberals...part of the same political humor tradition that is completely comfortable with calling American conservatives Fascists or Nazis.  

I think that the humorous term "Lefty" is appropriate given the extreme forms of liberal thought common to Hollywood types.  It is entirely accurate, if a bit irreverent.

I didn't say that guns were good or bad.  I said that Lefty Hollywood types are uncomfortable with a television show in which guns are the solution for virtually every situation.

I didn't say that the betwetting liberals who run Hollywood are right or wrong about their ambivilence to the themes in Battlestar Galactica.  I said that their internal conflicts are humorous to listen to on the Battlestar Galactica podcasts.  If you watch the podcasts (which are very interesting) you will see what I mean.

I criticized the show McGuyver for its absurd premise that hair gel and paperclips can routinely overcome armed opponents.  Obviously, lots of people liked the show...it was a great example of Lefty Hollywood at work.  I stated accurately that I saw McGuyver toss a gun away in the very first scene and changed the channels...since I prefer silly gunfights over silly gadgets.

McGuyver was a product of the political climate of the 1980's.  It was an expression of the Lefty hope that the goodguys could win somehow by being nicer than the badguys.  Right or wrong, it is a philosophy which is now out of style in America.

I stated accurately that the current Battlestar Galactica is a product of our current national mood in which the military is honored but the badguys are not always easy to identify.

I stated accurately that the original Battlestar Galactica was a product of, and commentary on, the Cold War pacifism/no nukes debates of the of the 1970's to early 1980's.

I also praised the Lefy types who make Battlestar Galactica for routinely turning television cliches on their heads.  A part of this is their courage and honesty in going against or beyond their usual political viewpoints.

If I was trying to be grossly political, I did a crappy job.

One could criticize my post for being off topic...except that this is the off topic thread.

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 11:42 am 
 

Keith the Thief wrote:So it would seem that this new version of BSG is actually a good show (?)

I was so utterly appalled by the original series that I never even bothered with the new one.

Does the Sci-Fi Channel re-run episodes so that someone can start from the beginning and catch up on the storyline?


I'm sure that the Sci-Fi Channel will begin to re-run seasons 1-3 when they start to ramp up for season 4.

They do sometimes air re-runs.

Also, the show is available on DVD and, I think, online.

The current incarnation of Battlestar Galactica has only superficial resemblence to the 1970's version.


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Post Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 11:54 am 
 

FormCritic wrote:Also, the show is available on DVD and, I think, online.

The new BSG has been a mainstay of iTunes' TV offerings since just about the beginning. New episodes are usually available for download the next morning, and all three seasons are available in the store. I've taken advantage of this a couple of times when we've had TiVo disasters at the house — for $1.99, I get to watch the episode (commercial-free) and own it forever.

+++++

A quick note for anyone looking to catch up on BSG through DVDs or downloads: don't forget the miniseries. In some ways, I think the miniseries is still the best work that the BSG folks ever did, since they were operating without any guarantees and had to put together a nice package to have any hope of getting "picked up" as a regular series.

Remember, there was a lot of speculation that there was no way a new BSG could ever succeed ... and it's the miniseries that puts those doubts to rest.

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Post Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 3:02 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:
To be accurate, bclarkie, the one being overtly political is you.  If you will read over your own posts, you will find that the one most frequently sounding off about politics and the Bush Administration is you.




This is flat out crap and completely contradictory, just like the rest of the crap you just posted.  Aside from the VT shootings 6 weeks ago and my brief commentary here, I challenge you to find anything on this forum that I have posted unprovoked that is Bush bashing, right wing bashing or political in nature. If you want to save yourself some time, don't bother though because you won't find it.

Funny though it isn't the "bedwetting" left hand liberals who run the PTC and other far right wing censor groups, the ones that are constantly trying to control the free speech on TV and on Radio that "bedwetting" left hand liberals from Hollywood keep putting on the airwaves.  It must be tough to constantly have to vote for the wicked duplicity that is the right wing.  I guess that's why the right wingers always have to resort to 5 year-old name calling like they always seem to do.

FormCritic wrote:One could criticize my post for being off topic...except that this is the off topic thread.


As far as this being the OT thread, it is, however as per Foulfoot, religion and politics are strictly forbidden as topics of discussion on this forum.  Again, I ask you keep your political opinions to yourself, left or right, because they don't belong on this forum.  Do it via PM or another forum, thats where it belongs.


"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche


Last edited by bclarkie on Fri May 25, 2007 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  
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