I've taught in public and private colleges (no experience in K-12), and there are the same problems with private colleges as with private high schools. It's about student retention and grade inflation to keep the students and the paying parents happy. Students at private colleges are required to have their hand held when making their course cards for the next semester because no chance can be taken that they may forget to register for next semester or register for the wrong class(es) which leads to angry calls from paying parents. At a public college, students learn to be independent by making their own schedule based on what they need to graduate and consulting the college guidebooks. That's just one example... which system do you think produces students that will be able to hold a job with responsibilities making decisions for themselves? At elite private colleges, students rarely get less than a B. There's a professor at Princeton who begins the semester telling his students that they'll all get at least a B because it's a lost cause trying to give real grades (fear of being bogged down by academic appeals and harassment irate parents/students)... but if students want to find out what they really deserve he'll tell them privately after the semester is over. The US has traditionally had one of the best university systems in the world due to objective learning outcomes and accountability but these are being undermined by market pressures (and the rest of the world is catching up by the way, and in almost every other country in the world the best universities are public). When students, and parents, have the power of the purse then they demand, and get, good grades in exchange for little work. If you want the truth about your work then you're more likely to get it at a public college that is more greatly insulated from market pressures than a private one that is dependent on market pressures.
Because it doesn't work. It commodifies an institution that is not akin to selling lattes or blue jeans. Private schools oftentimes make teachers into salespeople and self-esteem coaches to keep retention rates high and the money flowing in. It's not about educating and telling the student the truth of his/her learning, it's about the money each student brings to the institution.
Actually not quite, there are myriad factors that parents and students consider when choosing a school, and how they define what a "world class" education is will vary greatly.
Why not fix the school they're in? Shuffling the same students between different physical buildings is not going to solve the problem. Having almost every student in a given urban area trying to get into the "better" school where there are not enough seats is not going to solve the problem but will lead to massive overcrowding. Plus who gets to decide who gets in and who doesn't in this one must-get-into school? In addition, there is no incentive for the free market to serve poor or sparsely populated rural neighborhoods (i.e. no money) so they'll continue to be shafted. The free market is great for blue jeans, lattes, Ferragamo shoes and D&D collecting, but it doesn't work well for education (or health care).
mandalaymoon wrote:Mark (FormCritic) has been spot-on with his critique that echoes what most people who have actually stepped into a K-12 classroom to teach have told me over the years. I remember transferring to a Catholic junior high school after being in a NYC public elementary school for K-6, and immediately being recognized as the smartest kid in the class. These Catholic school 7th graders still had to learn things that I had already learned in 5th and 6th grade. It was pathetic that my parents had to pay money for this "wonderful" private school education that was obviously sub par. The supposed upside would be that I would easily get into one of the best Catholic high schools in NYC, which I did... and subsequently I was intellectually unchallenged with mostly sub par teachers. Thankfully I transferred back to my local NYC public high school for senior year and recharged my intellectual batteries before I went to college. Everyone who has had a similar experience to mine with public and private Catholic schools has said the public school system was better in more ways than the private Catholic school. Maybe that's anomalous to NYC but there it is. It is. I have two friends who had EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE experience here in Texas...moving from a Catholic private school to a public school and being at least two grades ahead of the public school class in all areas (particularly in the math and science departments). One of my best friends had Calculus two full years before they finally started covering it in public schools. BTW, both my friends ended up being Valedictorian and Salutatorian at the schools they attended, and these weren't small schools either (700-800 graduating students). They actually got cheated as a result of having to transfer to public schools, as their final two years were just regurgitation of what they had already covered in private school.The private Catholic schools in the area have long been realized to be light years ahead of public schools. Any parent I know that has the money, and has their kid on a track to a Ivy league type school, immediately pulls their kid from public schoolAs for financial incentives for teachers, how could that be arranged? Test scores? For many obvious reasons untenable (for example, no teacher would want to teach a class or in a district with poor students). You can't quantify a good teacher with any statistical analysis. Texas has these incentives...which is probably why grade inflation and graduation of illiterate students from public school is a statewide scandal.... Do you really want the state to cede control of the school system to churches and clergy? You might want to think that one over for a bit... Church or the Teacher's unions, not even a choice for me....and I'm not even religious. Market-driven education is a disaster as its emphasis will be on student retention and ability to pay in order to pad profit and the bottom line. Students and parents will be flattered and feared to keep the money rolling in. It will be a shift from a teacher-student relationship to a consumer-provider one, and that will be the end of any objective learning outcomes. Public schools are by no means perfect, but they're preferable to the systemic pitfalls of the structure of private schools.
mandalaymoon wrote:Mark (FormCritic) has been spot-on with his critique that echoes what most people who have actually stepped into a K-12 classroom to teach have told me over the years. I remember transferring to a Catholic junior high school after being in a NYC public elementary school for K-6, and immediately being recognized as the smartest kid in the class. These Catholic school 7th graders still had to learn things that I had already learned in 5th and 6th grade. It was pathetic that my parents had to pay money for this "wonderful" private school education that was obviously sub par. The supposed upside would be that I would easily get into one of the best Catholic high schools in NYC, which I did... and subsequently I was intellectually unchallenged with mostly sub par teachers. Thankfully I transferred back to my local NYC public high school for senior year and recharged my intellectual batteries before I went to college. Everyone who has had a similar experience to mine with public and private Catholic schools has said the public school system was better in more ways than the private Catholic school. Maybe that's anomalous to NYC but there it is.
As for financial incentives for teachers, how could that be arranged? Test scores? For many obvious reasons untenable (for example, no teacher would want to teach a class or in a district with poor students). You can't quantify a good teacher with any statistical analysis.
Do you really want the state to cede control of the school system to churches and clergy? You might want to think that one over for a bit...
Market-driven education is a disaster as its emphasis will be on student retention and ability to pay in order to pad profit and the bottom line. Students and parents will be flattered and feared to keep the money rolling in. It will be a shift from a teacher-student relationship to a consumer-provider one, and that will be the end of any objective learning outcomes. Public schools are by no means perfect, but they're preferable to the systemic pitfalls of the structure of private schools.
jasonw1239 wrote:Of course you always have to be careful about how private schools go about providing tuition and better grades...http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?secti ... id=6085999EDIT: Not trying to imply that the same thing could not happen in a public school
Blackmoor wrote:Why would that guy go with her I mean ugghh!!
In addition, there is no incentive for the free market to serve poor or sparsely populated rural neighborhoods (i.e. no money) so they'll continue to be shafted. The free market is great for blue jeans, lattes, Ferragamo shoes and D&D collecting, but it doesn't work well for education (or health care).
Kingofpain89 wrote:Speaking of other countries, this proved to be semi-humorous:http://phocks.org/stumble/lethality.php
Kingofpain89 wrote:Anyone taking advantage of Noble Knight's moving sale? 10% off on everything. But be prepared for some serious slowness problems. I thought getting a hotel for Gen Con took a long time....sheesh!
FormCritic wrote:Hey, all.Tonight my group meets to challenge the Inferno again.Should I put my narrative of this redone classic on the Judges Guild forums, the Non-TSR forums or right here, in the main forums?
Quakes Take Toll on Residents of RenoBy MARTIN GRIFFITH,APPosted: 2008-04-27 20:18:22Filed Under: Nation News, Natural Disaster, Science NewsRENO, Nev. (April 26) - Dozens of minor earthquakes shook Reno on Sunday as a series of temblors entered its third month and prompted some frazzled residents to leave their homes.Marilyn Newton, Gazette-Journal / AP Recent Earthquakes Rattle U.S.1 of 8 Keith Phillips checks the damage to his house in Mogul, Nev., Saturday morning. He said an earthquake that hit late Friday night literally lifted his house and slammed it back down, leaving cracks in his walls and ceiling. More than 150 aftershocks over the weekend have experts worried that a larger quake may be brewing.More than 150 aftershocks have been recorded on the western edge of northern Nevada's largest city after a magnitude-4.7 quake hit Friday night, the strongest quake in a sequence that began Feb. 28. There were no reports of injuries or widespread damage.Scientists have urged residents to prepare for worse, saying the recent activity is unusual because the quakes started out small and continue to build in strength.After being awakened as many as four times a night by quakes, retiree Sandra Petty decided to spend nights 10 miles away at the Sparks home of her daughter, Stefanie McCaffrey."The quakes have sent her emotions and nerves into a tailspin," McCaffrey said Sunday. "She was exhausted, and she couldn't relax or unwind. She just needed to get away so she could have a good night's sleep."Keith Phillips said he's going to live somewhere else, possibly with his children, until the activity settles down. He lives about a block from the epicenter of Friday night's quake, which cracked walls in his house and pushed one of his garages off its foundation."I grew up in the Bay Area and went through some major quakes down there," Phillips told the Reno Gazette-Journal. "Since we're right on top of the epicenter, I've never felt anything like this."The strongest aftershock Sunday measured 3 and was recorded shortly before 11 a.m.Three other quakes larger than magnitude 3 have struck areas scattered hundreds of miles apart across northern Nevada since Friday night's 4.7 quake in Reno.The quakes around Reno began a week after a magnitude 6 one in the northern Nevada town of Wells, near the Utah border. The Feb. 21 quake has been followed by hundreds of aftershocks.Scientists said they're unsure whether the seismic activity across the state, unusual for its basin-and-range topography, is related."Not enough is known about the faults and their history and what their role is," said Ken Smith of the seismological laboratory at the University of Nevada, Reno.The Reno temblors have prompted a flood of calls from homeowners to insurers about quake insurance.MetLife placed a 30-day moratorium on new coverage after a 4.2 quake jolted Reno on Thursday. Until then, the strongest quake in the sequence had been 3.6 on April 16.Other insurers were expected to follow suit."It probably will be extended, unfortunately, because of the one (Friday) night," MetLife agent Charlotte Eckmeyer said, adding that quake coverage just about doubles premiums.Nevada is the third most seismically active state in the nation behind California and Alaska. Reno's last major quake measured 6.1 on April 24, 1914.
Badmike wrote:Hey, Duke, any damage to the domicle? I bet most people don't think of Nevada as an earthquake center, but apparantly it's the 3rd most seismically active state. Mike B.