Old Random Thoughts or OT Chit-Chat Thread
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies. Page 108 of 111123 ... 105, 106, 107, 108, 109110111
Author

User avatar

Verbose Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 1254
Joined: Jan 01, 2003
Last Visit: Nov 26, 2021

Post Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:08 am 
 

Badmike wrote:And the level of quality of education is off the charts compared to my local school district (EX the range of languages you can learn in the local private Catholic school ranges from German, French, Spanish, Italian, Latin, Japanese, Chinese and Russian, while the local school offers only the first three).


It's ironic you cite availability of foreign languages as a difference between private Catholic schools and public schools.  My private Catholic high school, which was and still is considered one of the best in country, only had four foreign languages (Spanish, French, Italian and German) plus Latin, of course.  The local public high school I transfered into for only my senior year had all those plus Japanese, Chinese, Korean, and even American Sign Language if you count that. I jumped at the chance to take Japanese and it changed my life in an extremely positive way.  I even got a free trip to Japan provided by an ongoing program between the NYC Board of Education and the Japanese Ministry of Education.  If I had stayed in private Catholic high school, I might have ended up with a very mundane existence.  I also give D&D credit too..  :wink:

  

User avatar

Sage Collector

Posts: 2332
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
Last Visit: Aug 27, 2017
Location: Shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods

Post Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:15 am 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:The post in question can be found at:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/300096/page/5

Earlier in the thread, Tonya says, "I need to get a new boyfriend, maybe then I wouldn't be so uptight."

Should I tell her that I'm on the market in VGC?

  


Prolific Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 656
Joined: Apr 12, 2004
Last Visit: Nov 03, 2021
Location: Perth, Australia

Post Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:47 am 
 

Is that the reason she's gone to Germany? :wink:


"Don't tempt me, I can resist anything but temptation"

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 7969
Joined: Jun 23, 2003
Last Visit: Nov 23, 2021
Location: DFW TX

Post Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:49 am 
 

mandalaymoon wrote:
It's ironic you cite availability of foreign languages as a difference between private Catholic schools and public schools.  My private Catholic high school, which was and still is considered one of the best in country, only had four foreign languages (Spanish, French, Italian and German) plus Latin, of course.  The local public high school I transfered into for only my senior year had all those plus Japanese, Chinese, Korean, and even American Sign Language if you count that. I jumped at the chance to take Japanese and it changed my life in an extremely positive way.  I even got a free trip to Japan provided by an ongoing program between the NYC Board of Education and the Japanese Ministry of Education.  If I had stayed in private Catholic high school, I might have ended up with a very mundane existence.  I also give D&D credit too..  :wink:


I don't know if there is a public school in Texas with that many languages...certainly never heard of one with ALL those (Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Sign Language).  Generally you have Spanish, French and German and that's it.  Was your school on the west coast?  Sounds very much like they catered to someone interested in Asian studies.

But mostly that was just used as an example to show the number of choices available here in private vs public school. Ironically we live near two of the top school districts in Texas (Southlake and Grapevine/Colleyville), both are very wealthy districts, but hard to get into since the cities have prevented any type of low income housing in their areas and thus are able to cater to only the very well off; also, the property taxes for both are through the roof.  Even so, we've had numerous friends that despite living in these districts send their kids to the local Catholic High School (Nolan) for a superior education.

Mike B.


"THE MORE YOU THINK ABOUT WHY i DONE WHAT i DONE THE MORE i LAUGH" Cougar
"The Acaeum hates fun" Sir Allen
"I had a collecting emergency" Nogrod
Co-founder of the North Texas RPG Con
http://www.ntrpgcon.com

 WWW  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 7969
Joined: Jun 23, 2003
Last Visit: Nov 23, 2021
Location: DFW TX

Post Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:34 am 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:
Okay, which one of you guys wee-wee'd in this guys cereal? Or maybe it was me:  8O :)

"wow, you actually found something useful on acaeum. usually it's a bunch loud-mouthed idiots harrassing newbies, standing on soapboxes, and generally being annoying. the guy running the site tries to do a good job with collector info, but the forums are just moronic flame-fests."

The post in question can be found at:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/300096/page/5

(scroll down almost all the way to the bottom)

But, wait, it gets even better! Whoever this guy is, it's his first day over at BGG. I have no idea what his agenda is, but he's probably going to be gone soon; there's a fairly low tolerance for morons over there. You can be smug, you can be passive-aggressive, you can be argumentative, you can even do some thread-jacking, but they really frown on being a complete asshat over there.

My other favorite part is the lack of capital letters. The guy is either 12 or so, or he's a developmentally disabled adult or some sort. Much like here, the audience there tends to be slightly older and generally fairly well-educated ... they use capital letters, in other words. This guy, though, appears to have come directly from a video game forum.

+++++

Late edit: the guy just had his account suspended. Woot! He'll have to go somewhere else for his Acaeum-bashing.


That was a good laugh.  I wonder which guy we hammered?  Atari?

That Tonya thread is pretty funny also.  I have to say I enjoyed her response, particularly these lines:

We went from friendly to unfriendly pretty quickly, and I should have been able to avoid that. I need to get a new boyfriend, maybe then I wouldn't be so uptight.


Look, like you guys and gals I am a gamer. I like games. I'm a big ol gaming dork, and love to play DnD, and board games. But, "this" the selling of games - it is business to me. I either make money at it, or I do something else for money (not much call for leporous hookers, as you can imagine!).


Ok, so she likes to get laid, and she has fun with someone calling her a leporous hooker.....how many girls do any of us know that would admit to either?  Honestly I can see some Acaeum members in a few years sitting in a bar at Gencon buying her some beers as we discuss some of her more ridiculous "About Me Page" antics.

Mike B.

 WWW  


Sage Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 2884
Joined: Nov 04, 2004
Last Visit: May 09, 2020

Post Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:11 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:Late edit: the guy just had his account suspended. Woot! He'll have to go somewhere else for his Acaeum-bashing.

... and now this clown is sending me nasty messages through the BGG system.  :) Big loser.

I wish I had Brian's skill with tracking people down, matching up IP addresses, etc. I have my suspicions on who this person is ... and I'm pretty sure I'm right ... but, technically, no way to verify it.

Oh, well, no biggie. I should probably let it go; like all other trolls, it's just the attention that he's after. Pathetic.

 WWW  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 7969
Joined: Jun 23, 2003
Last Visit: Nov 23, 2021
Location: DFW TX

Post Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:43 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:... and now this clown is sending me nasty messages through the BGG system.  :) Big loser.

I wish I had Brian's skill with tracking people down, matching up IP addresses, etc. I have my suspicions on who this person is ... and I'm pretty sure I'm right ... but, technically, no way to verify it.

Oh, well, no biggie. I should probably let it go; like all other trolls, it's just the attention that he's after. Pathetic.


What's worse is that he's not even up to the standards of trolls like Atari, Afrika Corps, etc.  I mean, his stuff is pretty weak, not even worthy of being a foe of most of us. It's like one of Batman's villains, except we don't get Riddler, Joker, Penquin, etc. We get Calendar Man or TweedleDee and Tweedle Dum.

Mike B.


"THE MORE YOU THINK ABOUT WHY i DONE WHAT i DONE THE MORE i LAUGH" Cougar
"The Acaeum hates fun" Sir Allen
"I had a collecting emergency" Nogrod
Co-founder of the North Texas RPG Con
http://www.ntrpgcon.com

 WWW  

User avatar

Long-Winded Collector
Subweb Admin
JG Valuation Board

Posts: 4505
Joined: Nov 08, 2002
Last Visit: Nov 26, 2021
Location: Land of 10,000 ponds

Post Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:30 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:
What's worse is that he's not even up to the standards of trolls like Atari, Afrika Corps, etc.  I mean, his stuff is pretty weak, not even worthy of being a foe of most of us. It's like one of Batman's villains, except we don't get Riddler, Joker, Penquin, etc. We get Calendar Man or TweedleDee and Tweedle Dum.

Mike B.


Now Clay Face would be a cool moniker.

ShaneG.


I reject your reality and substitute my own

 WWW  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 760
Joined: Dec 31, 2005
Last Visit: Oct 17, 2021
Location: Dallas, TX

Post Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:38 pm 
 

That old canard... private schools are no better than public schools in many ways.


True. And yet, where they do differ are in the ways that parents actually care about: better discipline, higher quality networking, and superior performance.

Now while there is clearly some self-selection going on.. wealthier families can afford private school and thus will likely have smarter than average parents, which in turn will make them better students.. it is nonetheless true that the incentives provided in private schools are the right ones.

I find it ironic that you mention that teachers -- in a private system -- have to suck up to parents to keep them happy. I think this is unlikely to be true, but at the very least a moot concern, since this is even worse of a problem in the public school system.

Moreover, you also mention there are good and bad apples in all professions. This is true. Yet the problem with teachers is that the vast majority of them aren't exposed to market pressures -- if they perform poorly, they actualy get rewarded (more funding, etc).. not punished like other professions.

In my view, there is really no reason for public schooling other than the power to indoctrinate students in a certain way (i.e. further the support of the state). [Actually, this was the initial motivation for public schooling in Germany and Canada; I'm not sure about the US]. After all, if it's just "to help poor people" or the disabled, then a simple subsidization scheme would be far more effective, and at lower cost.

But politicians need control...

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6720
Joined: Jul 16, 2005
Last Visit: Feb 02, 2021

Post Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:16 pm 
 

Two things to add to the education discussion:

1)  Teachers vary widely in levels of competence, just like apprentices, journeymen and masters in any profession.  Not only that, but their competence in various aspects of teaching can vary widely, including their ability to relate to students, do paperwork, manage a classroom, build curriculum and a host of other things related to the profession.   Sometimes a teacher is brilliant in one setting, but a disaster in another...and vice versa.

2)  Be cautious when comparing US schools to those in other countries, particularly when test scores are compared:

a:  In the US, we educate everyone in pretty much the same elementary to middle school to high school system.  

(That means that my special education students, many of whom are severely disabled, are still counted on testing statistics as a measure of how everyone is doing in school...even though it is obvious that their participation skews all of the statistics.)  

Many other countries have multiple school tracks which include college-bound, technical and dregs-of-society level schools.  

The test data from those countries is generally taken from their top level schools.

So, it is possible for test statistics to actually compare the top...say...25% of students in a given country with all American students.  This renders comparisons essentially meaningless...although that fact gets left out in the news reports.

Another example would be statistics of graduating seniors collected from American 16 year-olds and another country's 19 year-olds.

I'm not saying that is always the case, but it is frequently quite true.

The numbers of American college freshmen who need remedial courses is a nice example of this phenomenon.  In America, pretty much anyone who wants to can attend a school in our vast college system...including some of our lowest-performing students.  (In fact, we make special efforts to send some of the lowest-performers to college.)  In other countries, only a small percentage of any one age group gets to go to college.  This means that a brutally huge portion of the world's total bachelor's degrees are awarded to Americans...but it also means that a lot of them need remedial coursework in their first year of college.


b:  Watch out for comparisons between school systems or types within the United States.  

For instance...watch out for comparisons of public schools with private or charter schools.

The differences are so large as to amount to apples and oranges.  

Just taking one example...most charter schools and private schools do not have special education programs.  So, my severe and profoundly disabled kids are not welcome in most of those schools, even if they had the money and/or family support to get into them.

So, comparing testing scores between public, private and charter schools can be like comparing time trials between broken down VW bugs versus race cars.  (Sorry, that is very un-American, very un-PC and perilously close to educational heresy....but it is also quite true.)

Probably the best observation about the American school system is just this:  Most of us on this website were educated in US public schools. They must be doing something right.

A simple fact:  The single greatest predictor of student success is....*drum roll*....parental involvement.


"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6720
Joined: Jul 16, 2005
Last Visit: Feb 02, 2021

Post Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:28 pm 
 

Sea-to-sky-games wrote:I find it ironic that you mention that teachers -- in a private system -- have to suck up to parents to keep them happy. I think this is unlikely to be true


Having worked in both public and private schools, I have to say that it is entirely true.

Private school parents pay good money and they often expect a certain amount of power over the results.  How much power they have depends upon the character of administrators and the school's overall financial footing.  For instance...the board of directors of many private schools is an equal mix of the wealthiest and most psychotic parents.  Piss off a powerful or troublesome parent and you take your professional life in your hands...regardless of who is right.

In my old, private school, we had some students with massively inflated gradepoint averages get hammered on the SAT.  

Astonishingly...many people were unable to guess the reason for the discrepancy.  (HINT:  You cannot threaten to fire the people who administer the SAT if your child does not get the right score.)

Connected to my comments in the post above this one....often, the entire point of a private school is to get one's children away from other people's children.

Public schools do not have the luxury of turning away anyone.

Whatever social problems are out there inevitably overflow like sewage into our public schools.  Blaming the schools for these problems is illogical and counter-productive.

On the downside...many private school just don't have the finances to offer some of the best programs offered in the public schools  Sometimes (and I have two sets of inlaws who fall into this group) parents assume that "private" means "better" and are shocked when their kids transfer to public school and are way behind their grade-level peers.


"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 760
Joined: Dec 31, 2005
Last Visit: Oct 17, 2021
Location: Dallas, TX

Post Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:43 am 
 

For instance...watch out for comparisons of public schools with private or charter schools.

The differences are so large as to amount to apples and oranges.  


One of the "supposed" reasons for public education trot out by the teacher's union is to ensure everyone has access to a quality education. If the public schools aren't keeping up with private schools, what's the point?

most charter schools and private schools do not have special education programs.  So, my severe and profoundly disabled kids are not welcome in most of those schools, even if they had the money and/or family support to get into them.


Well it depends on what you mean by most. 51%? There are lot of options in the private schools who cater to children with learning disabilities. But..

So, comparing testing scores between public, private and charter schools can be like comparing time trials between broken down VW bugs versus race cars.  (Sorry, that is very un-American, very un-PC and perilously close to educational heresy....but it is also quite true.)


Students that have signfiicant learning disabilities in the public system are often taught separately, such as in special-ed or some such. But in any case, to the extent their performance scores are included, there is simply not enough of them to account/explain the massive differences in performance between the two types of institutions.

This is a common cop-out, and it just doesn't mesh with the empirical evidence, nor reconciles with the rationale for state-provided education.

A simple fact:  The single greatest predictor of student success is....*drum roll*....parental involvement.


This is not true, at least empirically. After all, I don't recall many studies being able to quantify the time of parents that they put into their child's education. In theory or intuitively, this might have grounds, although I would think strong teacher incentives could be just as or more important. A good alternative or proxy for this is the highest level of education attained by the parents, as I've already noted.

Controlling for this variable, it would still likely be the case that private schools perform better, although I admit I am not up to speed on the literature at the moment.

  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 760
Joined: Dec 31, 2005
Last Visit: Oct 17, 2021
Location: Dallas, TX

Post Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:02 am 
 

Private school parents pay good money and they often expect a certain amount of power over the results.  How much power they have depends upon the character of administrators and the school's overall financial footing.  For instance...the board of directors of many private schools is an equal mix of the wealthiest and most psychotic parents.  Piss off a powerful or troublesome parent and you take your professional life in your hands...regardless of who is right.

In my old, private school, we had some students with massively inflated gradepoint averages get hammered on the SAT.  

Astonishingly...many people were unable to guess the reason for the discrepancy.  (HINT:  You cannot threaten to fire the people who administer the SAT if your child does not get the right score.)


Again, this aspect of public or private schooling is moot because it happens in both instititutions. But, to the extent in happens in the private system, at least there is some accountability:

If private schools develop a reputation for inflating scores but not helping students, they die out. If schools take a principled stance and assign grades on merit, they persist.

By contrast, in the public sphere there is no such accountability. And, in a sense, we actually pay even more money to have such inefficiencies persist (c.f. 'no child left behind program').

Connected to my comments in the post above this one....often, the entire point of a private school is to get one's children away from other people's children.

Public schools do not have the luxury of turning away anyone.

Whatever social problems are out there inevitably overflow like sewage into our public schools.  Blaming the schools for these problems is illogical and counter-productive.


Certainly, private schools are attractive because they cater to the tastes of parents. But there are some public schools in the poorest of neighborhoods that excel using the techniques in the private system (uniforms, discipline, some form of merit pay).. and even do better than many private schools. Ironically, the teacher's union eventually find ways to shut these "rogue" systems down.

On the downside...many private school just don't have the finances to offer some of the best programs offered in the public schools  Sometimes (and I have two sets of inlaws who fall into this group) parents assume that "private" means "better" and are shocked when their kids transfer to public school and are way behind their grade-level peers.


This is exactly why broad based comparisons are good. Looking at any two schools isn't likely to give a good indication of the quality of education across the two systems. On net private schools are better, but that doesn't mean there aren't good public schools or bad private schools.

  

User avatar

Verbose Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 1254
Joined: Jan 01, 2003
Last Visit: Nov 26, 2021

Post Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:49 am 
 

Mark (FormCritic) has been spot-on with his critique that echoes what most people who have actually stepped into a K-12 classroom to teach have told me over the years.  I remember transferring to a Catholic junior high school after being in a NYC public elementary school for K-6, and immediately being recognized as the smartest kid in the class.  These Catholic school 7th graders still had to learn things that I had already learned in 5th and 6th grade.  It was pathetic that my parents had to pay money for this "wonderful" private school education that was obviously sub par.  The supposed upside would be that I would easily get into one of the best Catholic high schools in NYC, which I did... and subsequently I was intellectually unchallenged with mostly sub par teachers.  Thankfully I transferred back to my local NYC public high school for senior year and recharged my intellectual batteries before I went to college.  Everyone who has had a similar experience to mine with public and private Catholic schools has said the public school system was better in more ways than the private Catholic school.  Maybe that's anomalous to NYC but there it is.  
As for financial incentives for teachers, how could that be arranged?  Test scores?  For many obvious reasons untenable (for example, no teacher would want to teach a class or in a district with poor students).  You can't quantify a good teacher with any statistical analysis.  

Do you really want the state to cede control of the school system to churches and clergy?  You might want to think that one over for a bit...

Yes, the $30,000 per year private school is probably better than most public schools.  I have a friend who taught in an elite Manhattan one with the sons and daughters of the rich and famous (yes, great for networking and with significant grade inflation just like the Ivy Leagues).  Those kids are getting an excellent education (and grades) with teachers who are paid very well... so should taxpayers subsidize that level of tuition for all the other kids who cannot afford it?   

Market-driven education is a disaster as its emphasis will be on student retention and ability to pay in order to pad profit and the bottom line.  Students and parents will be flattered and feared to keep the money rolling in.  It will be a shift from a teacher-student relationship to a consumer-provider one, and that will be the end of any objective learning outcomes.  Public schools are by no means perfect, but they're preferable to the systemic pitfalls of the structure of private schools.

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6720
Joined: Jul 16, 2005
Last Visit: Feb 02, 2021

Post Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:55 am 
 

*post deleted*

Went to answer some of your points Sea-to-Sky.

Where to even begin?  :scratch:

Dropping the topic.  

It doesn't lend itself to soundbites or snappy answers.


"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

  

User avatar

Prolific Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 608
Joined: Mar 17, 2008
Last Visit: Nov 26, 2021
Location: Evergreen, CO

Post Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:50 am 
 

mandalaymoon wrote:Market-driven education is a disaster as its emphasis will be on student retention and ability to pay in order to pad profit and the bottom line.  Students and parents will be flattered and feared to keep the money rolling in.  It will be a shift from a teacher-student relationship to a consumer-provider one, and that will be the end of any objective learning outcomes.  Public schools are by no means perfect, but they're preferable to the systemic pitfalls of the structure of private schools.


Market driven education is hardly a disaster at the University level.  A mix of public and private institutions, with students free to choose where they want to go.  Dare I boast that we have the best university system in the world?

Why not the same thing at the secondary level?  Parents can determine which school is best for their child - public or private - and let their tax dollars follow them.  States spend around $10K annually per student, which is competitive with the average private school tuition.  In fact, private schools that are more expensive may even lower tuition to attract public school students, in order to get that $ (less being better than none).  How do the schools (public and private) compete for students?  By providing a world class education, that's how.

Right now, a student in a poor performing public school has no options available to them, except to languish.  Why not give them an opportunity to go to a private school or better public school?

  

User avatar

Verbose Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 1254
Joined: Jan 01, 2003
Last Visit: Nov 26, 2021

Post Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:45 am 
 

Grug Greyskin wrote:Market driven education is hardly a disaster at the University level.  A mix of public and private institutions, with students free to choose where they want to go.  Dare I boast that we have the best university system in the world?


I've taught in public and private colleges (no experience in K-12), and there are the same problems with private colleges as with private high schools.  It's about student retention and grade inflation to keep the students and the paying parents happy.  Students at private colleges are required to have their hand held when making their course cards for the next semester because no chance can be taken that they may forget to register for next semester or register for the wrong class(es) which leads to angry calls from paying parents.  At a public college, students learn to be independent by making their own schedule based on what they need to graduate and consulting the college guidebooks.  That's just one example... which system do you think produces students that will be able to hold a job with responsibilities making decisions for themselves?  At elite private colleges, students rarely get less than a B.  There's a professor at Princeton who begins the semester telling his students that they'll all get at least a B because it's a lost cause trying to give real grades (fear of being bogged down by academic appeals and harassment irate parents/students)... but if students want to find out what they really deserve he'll tell them privately after the semester is over.  
The US has traditionally had one of the best university systems in the world due to objective learning outcomes and accountability but these are being undermined by market pressures (and the rest of the world is catching up by the way, and in almost every other country in the world the best universities are public).  When students, and parents, have the power of the purse then they demand, and get, good grades in exchange for little work.  If you want the truth about your work then you're more likely to get it at a public college that is more greatly insulated from market pressures than a private one that is dependent on market pressures.  

Grug Greyskin wrote:Why not the same thing at the secondary level?  


Because it doesn't work.  It commodifies an institution that is not akin to selling lattes or blue jeans.  Private schools oftentimes make teachers into salespeople and self-esteem coaches to keep retention rates high and the money flowing in.  It's not about educating and telling the student the truth of his/her learning, it's about the money each student brings to the institution.  

Grug Greyskin wrote:Parents can determine which school is best for their child - public or private - and let their tax dollars follow them.  States spend around $10K annually per student, which is competitive with the average private school tuition.  In fact, private schools that are more expensive may even lower tuition to attract public school students, in order to get that $ (less being better than none).  


Actually it will work the opposite way.  There have been studies that show that when students choose a college they strive for the more expensive ones thinking that higher cost equals better product.  That's why private colleges and universities raise their tuition higher every year; that is much higher than the rate of inflation.  Colleges that did not raise their tuition often or high enough found they were getting lower enrollments since students thought more expensive equaled better, like Payless shoes compared to Ferragamo.  What will happen is that no school will price itself at $10,000 but instead quickly raise the tuition costs to attract status conscious students and parents.  

Grug Greyskin wrote:How do the schools (public and private) compete for students?  By providing a world class education, that's how.


Actually not quite, there are myriad factors that parents and students consider when choosing a school, and how they define what a "world class" education is will vary greatly.  It's just not that simple.  I can see why Mark (FormCritic) decided to drop out of this debate.  It's complicated, and those who think school vouchers and the free market are the great panacea for what ails US education at any level just don't understand it and have probably never worked in the field at any level.  

Grug Greyskin wrote:Right now, a student in a poor performing public school has no options available to them, except to languish.  Why not give them an opportunity to go to a private school or better public school?


Why not fix the school they're in?  Shuffling the same students between different physical buildings is not going to solve the problem. Having almost every student in a given urban area trying to get into the "better" school where there are not enough seats is not going to solve the problem but will lead to massive overcrowding.  Plus who gets to decide who gets in and who doesn't in this one must-get-into school?  In addition, there is no incentive for the free market to serve poor or sparsely populated rural neighborhoods (i.e. no money) so they'll continue to be shafted.  The free market is great for blue jeans, lattes, Ferragamo shoes and D&D collecting, but it doesn't work well for education (or health care).

  


Sage Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 2884
Joined: Nov 04, 2004
Last Visit: May 09, 2020

Post Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:57 am 
 

FormCritic wrote:It doesn't lend itself to soundbites or snappy answers.

The single most-accurate statement I've seen in my four-plus years here.

 WWW  
PreviousNext
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies. Page 108 of 111123 ... 105, 106, 107, 108, 109110111