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Post Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:20 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:Murder....and worse?   :D

What did they do...play for the eagles?


That does up the ante quite a bit....

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Post Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:38 pm 
 

Another "What the hell's going on in our public schools?" story:

http://www.parentdish.com/2008/04/16/dad-calls-from-iraq-son-gets-suspended/

The short version is that a soldier deployed in Iraq called his son on his son's cellphone during class, and the school suspended the kid for two days because of the "cellphone ban" in place, despite apparantly the family having an arrangement with the school in case the soldier needed to call his kids....

Since this story ran, Fox news made a big deal about it, and supposedly the school officals ran like cockroaches from a light once the phone calls from angry service men and their families began pouring in and soon they rescinded the suspension.

School's continual use of blanket unpopular policies is just going to just make vouchers and private schools more and more popular, and this will just add to the eventual ruin of the public school system, which is in worse and worse shape every year it seems.

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:32 pm 
 

Cellphones should not be allowed in school.


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Post Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:43 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:Murder....and worse?   :D

What did they do...play for the eagles?


Man, that's a low blow there...which is perfectly legal for an Eagle's fan!

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Post Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:46 pm 
 

Deadlord39 wrote:Cellphones should not be allowed in school.


Agreed,  but there should always be exceptions....and this seems like a good one.

  

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Post Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:14 pm 
 

Sir Kill Alot wrote:
Agreed,  but there should always be exceptions....and this seems like a good one.


Actually, we got by just fine in schools without cell phones back in the day.  If there was a family emergency, the parents just called the school and the kid was escorted from class by a teacher to the principal's office where they could speak with their parent.  I cant think of a reason why they cant do this today.

Cell phones should be banned in schools.  And in movie theaters, post offices, restaurants, churches, etc.  Can you tell just how much I hate the damn things?  Probably has something to do with the dumbass who almost ran into me on the freeway yesterday because they were too damn busy talking to some other asshole on a cellphone to notice that I was passing them and decided to change lanes (into mine of course) at the last second.  And Blackberries?  Dont even get me started on those evil things.  :evil:


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Post Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:24 pm 
 

Sir Kill Alot wrote:
Agreed,  but there should always be exceptions....and this seems like a good one.


Exactly what I thought.  That's the problem with blanket policies....they don't allow for exceptions like "Daddy is defending the country with his life in Iraq and would like to have one minute to talk to his kid before he gets blown to pieces."  

I don't have any problems with cellphones being confiscated when they ring in class, or if the students are texting messages during class, etc.   But I know for damn sure if there is a tornado heading our way, or there is a shooting at a school, or if I have a Grade A emergency (mommy just had a heart attack and you need to go to the hospital RIGHT NOW) or I'm serving in Iraq and want to talk to my kid before I go on patrol, I want the option to call my kid if they technology exists to allow this.  

The problem is that school administration doesn't want the responsibilty to have to choose between Emergency A, B and C when it comes to who is allowed to have a cellphone in class. Too much thinking = Not enough time to eat lunch, surf the net, flirt with the staff, go on paid for district trips, etc. So it's an all or nothing policy sometimes; the same kinds of policies that cause expulsion with "zero tolerance weapons bans" including butter knives accidentally brought to school:


http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/Story?id=3758286


http://avalanchejournal.com/stories/032002/edu_0320020033.shtml

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:36 pm 
 

Kingofpain89 wrote:
Actually, we got by just fine in schools without cell phones back in the day.  If there was a family emergency, the parents just called the school and the kid was escorted from class by a teacher to the principal's office where they could speak with their parent.  I cant think of a reason why they cant do this today.


Well, people got along just fine without the internet for years and years...but now that it's around, why not use it?  Sounds like massive "Good Old Days" syndrome here  :D

Plus some schools may define family emergencys differently...honestly, I could give a flying crap whether or not the school administrators who I wouldn't trust to feed my dog think my emergency is serious enough to pull my kid out of class...or, in the case of a natural emergency or school shooting, don't even have time to answer the phone much less send someone to pull my kid out of class.  I know it's selfish, but if a tornado knocks down the school, or if there is a news flash that six kids have died in a school shooting where my kid goes to class, I want to know NOW if my kid is in trouble, not when the school gets around to a press release sometime in the next few hours.  

Honestly, cell phones are lifelines for single parent families.  I suspect most people against cellphones in school either don't have kids, don't have a single parent family, or send their kids to private school...

Cell phones should be banned in schools.  And in movie theaters, post offices, restaurants, churches, etc.  Can you tell just how much I hate the damn things?  Probably has something to do with the dumbass who almost ran into me on the freeway yesterday because they were too damn busy talking to some other asshole on a cellphone to notice that I was passing them and decided to change lanes (into mine of course) at the last second.  And Blackberries?  Dont even get me started on those evil things.  :evil:


Movie theaters, yes. Churches, yes. Post Offices, yes.  While driving, yes. Restaurants....hey, how is a phone conversation any more distracting than a couple with six kids allowing the little demons to scream and run around like maniacs while I'm trying to eat my burger?  Ban the parents who think management at the local Bennigans should also double as babysitters.... 8O

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:55 pm 
 

Things to say when you don't know what else to say(copied).

"Flappity, floppity, flip
The mouse on the mobius strip;
The strip revolved,
The mouse dissolved,
In a chronodimensional skip."

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:13 am 
 

Badmike wrote:The problem is that school administration doesn't want the responsibilty to have to choose between Emergency A, B and C when it comes to who is allowed to have a cellphone in class. Too much thinking = Not enough time to eat lunch, surf the net, flirt with the staff, go on paid for district trips, etc. So it's an all or nothing policy sometimes; the same kinds of policies that cause expulsion with "zero tolerance weapons bans" including butter knives accidentally brought to school:

Mike B.


Agree with this 100%, public school administrators hide behind "zero tolerance" policies too often.  If they can't be trusted to make a reasonable judgement, they should not be entrusted with the education of our youth.  U.S. public schools are a pathetic joke, and our leadership in the world technologically and economically is on the wane because of it.

  

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:56 am 
 

Grug Greyskin wrote:
Agree with this 100%, public school administrators hide behind "zero tolerance" policies too often.  If they can't be trusted to make a reasonable judgement, they should not be entrusted with the education of our youth.  U.S. public schools are a pathetic joke, and our leadership in the world technologically and economically is on the wane because of it.
:scratch:

C'mon guys.  :?

Say things enough times and they start to sound true.


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:17 am 
 

FormCritic wrote: :scratch:

C'mon guys.  :?

Say things enough times and they start to sound true.


Perhaps I overstated the consequences, but our schools are pathetic.  In time, that will have an impact on a larger scale.

  


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:27 am 
 

FormCritic wrote: C'mon guys.  :?

Say things enough times and they start to sound true.

Gotta agree. I'm starting to get pretty fucking annoyed at the gross generalizations and ridiculous over-simplifications I'm seeing here. I'm also beginning to take it personally, as most of my family — father, sister, step-mother, wife, and one uncle, just to name five — are either currently educators and just recently retired from the field.

I can't believe I have to actually spell this out, but here goes: administrators and teachers are just like any other group of professionals. Some are lazy and/or incompetent. Some are dedicated and/or inspiring. Most fall somewhere in between. Just like in other fields: not all cops are crooked, not all doctors play golf, not all IT guys are social retards, and on and on.

Cherry-picking news stories of ridiculous antics from various school districts in an era that features a constant, all-pervading 24-hour news cycle proves nothing. Yes, there's some good conversation-starters in there, and, yes, there will be more strange antics next week ... and the week after that and the week after that. Not a huge surprise in a country with tens of thousands of school districts!

Even for the off-topic thread, this has been some pretty weak shit. How many people who have thrown out snarky anti-educator comments here over the past couple of weeks have ever taught?

Yeah, that's what I thought ...

Grug Greyskin wrote:Perhaps I overstated the consequences, but our schools are pathetic.

Jesus Christ, more weak shit even before I can post! It's simply amazing you've had the time to do research on thousands and thousands of school districts to reach that startling conclusion. You must have more free time than I.

But, hey, I'll just take your word for it ... clearly, you've got it all figured out.

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:14 am 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:Jesus Christ, more weak shit even before I can post! It's simply amazing you've had the time to do research on thousands and thousands of school districts to reach that startling conclusion. You must have more free time than I.

But, hey, I'll just take your word for it ... clearly, you've got it all figured out.


Well, I just wrote a three page rant. Upon re-reading it, unless we are going to start a new thread it's really overkill. I'll just summarize:

If you don't think the teaching profession is a broken as the Catholic priesthood was when the molestation scandal broke, you have your head in the sand. There is a very, very good reason the teaching profession comes under constant attack, the same reason as crooked cops, drunken doctors, or pilots who fall asleep while flying jets get hammered: teachers, like the aforementioned, are NOT like other professionals, in that many hundreds (if not thousands) of lives are in their hands.  When teachers or schools mess up the consequences, while often not immediately felt, are so far reaching and awful as to put the very fabric of our country at risk; thus people are going to get very emotional about it.

There are lots of good teachers out there; unfortunately, teacher's unions have allowed the incompetent to become unfireable (look up New York City's "Rubber Room" under google if you want to see how incredibly broke the system is), or worse, have promoted them to running the schools or districts.  The system is broke and needs new ideas; I can only speak for my local schools (my district is ok), but for example the Dallas County system narby is an irredeamable pile of puke with the inmates running the asylum; I'm hoping that most of the people here have much better districts, but I can only comment on what I see, which is horrific. I'll briefly put links to two stories (out of dozens) that illustrate what we get to see every morning, and if people in Texas over react a little, this kind of crap is why:

First, there is the TAKS cheating scandal....basically, teachers and administrators are helping students cheat on testsso they can move them along (graduate them) and not have to face an entire district of 24 year old seniors that can't read...a fricking THREE PART awarding winning story for the Dallas Morning News, read it only if you have a strong stomach:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/dmn/stories/060307dnmetcheating.433e87c.html

Then, the school credit card scandal...where several teachers and administrators stole millions  of dollars (yes, MILLIONS) from the district through district issued credit cards. Some of the accused (now convicted) are serving federal time:
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/071906dnmetpcards.17c30c2.html

Not to mention most teachers in Dallas county are under educated and grossly unqualified to teach......more scandal that has popped up in recent years are teachers barely able to read rushed through college because we have a shortage.

I have a lot of friends and relatives who are teachers...some for their entire life....and they are ALWAYS the ones who have bad things to say about the state of education, while their kids go to private school...

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:09 am 
 

I don't mean to impugn anyone's relatives or individual teachers here (I too, have relatives who are educators).  It is the system as a whole that is broken.

To say there are thousands of good school districts and those who are criticising are cherry picking the bad stories - I disagree, and believe the anecdotes only highlight the truly outrageous cases, while the generally poor education our kids are getting for the most part goes uncovered.

The number of college students requiring remedial courses to prepare them for college courses continues to be quite high.  This addresses Washington state, but you can find similar articles about other university systems.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/328864_math24.html

Our performance in international testing continues to lag.
http://www.cesame-nm.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=15

There are lots of critics of international testing - generally from the teacher's unions or education establishment.

We are failing our youth through a lack of accountability in performance in today's schools.

  

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:38 pm 
 

That old canard... private schools are no better than public schools in many ways.  I went to both back in the day and the good ol' NYC public school system was better in more ways than the parochial Catholic schools were.  The problem with private schools is they have to pander to the students and parents in order to keep student retention and tuition up.  I recall Plato saying something in the Republic about one way a decline in a civilization can be detected is when teachers fear and flatter their students.  Only the elite private schools don't have this problem because they have long wait lists, and it works the same way in higher education.  

And why no cell phones in the post office?  Those lines are long and I don't see how a soft-spoken conversation while waiting my turn is that bothersome.  Though I often keep a few magazines in the car to bring in to read while I'm waiting on line.   :wink:

  

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:31 pm 
 

mandalaymoon wrote:That old canard... private schools are no better than public schools in many ways.  I went to both back in the day and the good ol' NYC public school system was better in more ways than the parochial Catholic schools were.  The problem with private schools is they have to pander to the students and parents in order to keep student retention and tuition up.  I recall Plato saying something in the Republic about one way a decline in a civilization can be detected is when teachers fear and flatter their students.  Only the elite private schools don't have this problem because they have long wait lists, and it works the same way in higher education.  

And why no cell phones in the post office?  Those lines are long and I don't see how a soft-spoken conversation while waiting my turn is that bothersome.  Though I often keep a few magazines in the car to bring in to read while I'm waiting on line.   :wink:


That's very true, private doesn't mean better in all cases. But in most of the private schools I know that turn out good kids (the ones my friends use), there is a sense of accountability for both teacher AND student. And the level of quality of education is off the charts compared to my local school district (EX the range of languages you can learn in the local private Catholic school ranges from German, French, Spanish, Italian, Latin, Japanese, Chinese and Russian, while the local school offers only the first three).  But to put in in perspective this school had a teacher/student sex scandal lastyear (30ish female teacher sleeping with 15 year old male student), so no where is perfect....

I don't have to wait in line very often at the local USPS since I do a lot of it online, but the main cellphone offenders either A. Have overly loud conversations with their mom/bookie/significant other while standing right next to you; or B. Hold up the line while they take a call or answer someone (although my local USPS office has a sing that says "please turn off your phone when you are waited on" for those who can't get the hint)

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:34 am 
 

[ignore]

Ridiculous education "discussion."

[/ignore]

+++++

Okay, which one of you guys wee-wee'd in this guys cereal? Or maybe it was me:  8O :)

"wow, you actually found something useful on acaeum. usually it's a bunch loud-mouthed idiots harrassing newbies, standing on soapboxes, and generally being annoying. the guy running the site tries to do a good job with collector info, but the forums are just moronic flame-fests."

The post in question can be found at:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/300096/page/5

(scroll down almost all the way to the bottom)

But, wait, it gets even better! Whoever this guy is, it's his first day over at BGG. I have no idea what his agenda is, but he's probably going to be gone soon; there's a fairly low tolerance for morons over there. You can be smug, you can be passive-aggressive, you can be argumentative, you can even do some thread-jacking, but they really frown on being a complete asshat over there.

My other favorite part is the lack of capital letters. The guy is either 12 or so, or he's a developmentally disabled adult or some sort. Much like here, the audience there tends to be slightly older and generally fairly well-educated ... they use capital letters, in other words. This guy, though, appears to have come directly from a video game forum.

+++++

Late edit: the guy just had his account suspended. Woot! He'll have to go somewhere else for his Acaeum-bashing.


Last edited by Xaxaxe on Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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