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Post Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 6:09 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:
there is also going to be a sequel to the hobbit as well, for all those maybe wanting to know!

Al


Call me a cuzzy funt but wasn't it a prequel that was suggested ? I heard the news over the radio so cannot attest to its veracity - I was half-cut at the time... Either way, great news. As to MoM - here's hoping it gets the treatment it deserves. Could be so good in the right hands...

  

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 7:28 pm 
 

There can't be a sequel. Nothing happened between the finding of the Ring and the trilogy. If they do a prequel, it will likely be Isildur's saga. Even if they did a movie about the driving-out of Sauron from Mirkwood, it would not only be at the same time as the Hobbit, it would suck ass as a movie.


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Post Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:50 am 
 

There's a bunch of stuff described in the LotR appendix between The Hobbit & LotR, but whatever movie they derive from it will possibly suck anyway.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:54 am 
 

sauromatian wrote:There's a bunch of stuff described in the LotR appendix between The Hobbit & LotR, but whatever movie they derive from it will possibly suck anyway.


I don't know about that.  After reading what Tolkien fans are saying about the two movies, I think there is sufficient material to make an interesting movie just based on the appendices.

http://forum.thehobbit-movie.com/viewtopic.php?t=8

However, we may be confused about what is meant by "two films."  The original announcements were:

"Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh will serve as Executive Producers of two films based on "The Hobbit." New Line will manage the production of the films, which will be shot simultaneously."

"MGM and New Line will co-finance and co-distribute two films, "The Hobbit" and a sequel to "The Hobbit." New Line will distribute in North America and MGM will distribute internationally."

I personally am hoping for two films about the book The Hobbit. just because I do not want anything left out.  Especially when you consider that these movies will want to connect everything to the LOTR movies, gap material will need inserting.

The tricky part comes in deciding where to cut the book in half.  I personally think it could come after Bilbo escapes from the goblins in the caverns.  Film one climaxes with the escape with the ring and film two climaxes with the Battle of the Five Armies.  Film one starts with Smaug's attack on Erebor and establishing himself on Lonely Mountain.  Film two starts with the Wargs chasing the party up into the trees.  I could get excited about that! :D

Either way, I'm just glad they are doing these films.  Peter Jackson does fantasy as well as anybody.  I believe he'll make it work whether the book is divided or not.


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Post Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:28 am 
 

DreamLord_Severin wrote:
Call me a cuzzy funt but wasn't it a prequel that was suggested ? I heard the news over the radio so cannot attest to its veracity - I was half-cut at the time... Either way, great news. As to MoM - here's hoping it gets the treatment it deserves. Could be so good in the right hands...


nope its defo a sequel being discussed - a bridge between the hobbit and LOTR.

go check it here for yourselves: http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com/node/35108

these guys are 99.9% blob-on-the-dot when it comes to inside info.

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Post Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:36 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:nah i think it will be cool. there is no way they will allow it to be lame. new line have seen how much the $$$ can be pulled off a project like this that is handled just right by the right person pushing the right buttons, so i hope PJ has the same approach to all this that he did when he went about LOTR.

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It won't be directed by Peter Jackson.  

He was dumped from the project when he insisted on being paid all of the money he was owed for the three previous films.

One hopeful thought:  

The Lord of the Rings films established a standard for quality and a sense of reality in fantasy film settings.   They also established the basic film look of the Tolkien world.

Just for instance, we now know that the flora and fauna of Middle Earth looks very much like our own...rather than a land of mushrooms and butterflies.

For another instance, we have established that hobbits are full-sized actors filmed with trick perspective...possibly mixed in with midgets...rather than just midgets, as in Willow.  (No insult to midgets intended, of course.)

Although the Harry Potter movies have shown that there can be small variations between directors, the overall tone and look of Middle Earth is set.

It will be interesting to see if Smaug is a new sort of dragon concept, or follows the tradition of Dragonslayer and Reign of Fire.  

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Post Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:48 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:
It won't be directed by Peter Jackson.  

He was dumped from the project when he insisted on being paid all of the money he was owed for the three previous films.

One hopeful thought:  

The Lord of the Rings films established a standard for quality and a sense of reality in fantasy film settings.   They also established the basic film look of the Tolkien world.

Just for instance, we now know that the flora and fauna of Middle Earth looks very much like our own...rather than a land of mushrooms and butterflies.

For another instance, we have established that hobbits are full-sized actors filmed with trick perspective...possibly mixed in with midgets...rather than just midgets, as in Willow.  (No insult to midgets intended, of course.)

Although the Harry Potter movies have shown that there can be small variations between directors, the overall tone and look of Middle Earth is set.

It will be interesting to see if Smaug is a new sort of dragon concept, or follows the tradition of Dragonslayer and Reign of Fire.  

Mark


I agree with Mark here. The standard has been set; the fandom base is fanatical and unforgiving. If they try to toss off any substandard crap, the test audiences will boo it out of the theater, and the company will be out a buttload of money.  I think most of the greedy F's that run Hollywood aren't stupid enough to kill the golden goose in this instance....the next Middle Earth movie and any that follow should be up to the standards set by Jackson et al.

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Post Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:56 pm 
 

new line & PJ agreed terms relating to the LOTR debacle.

PJ is going to be executive producer.

either way, it will be a quality piece of film imo. there is no way they will allow this to suck as they will see the shitload of cash they made from LOTR.

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Post Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 5:51 pm 
 

benjoshua wrote:I personally am hoping for two films about the book The Hobbit. just because I do not want anything left out.  Especially when you consider that these movies will want to connect everything to the LOTR movies, gap material will need inserting.


I agree that two Hobbit films would be the best way to go about it, but the producers seem to have decided on the Appendix narratives for the second part. Dunno how specific their announced plans are yet, but the story of Aragorn fighting in disguise for Gondor against Harad seems most likely.

That would give them an opportunity to mix it up with more Aragorn & Arwen material. Liv Tyler was able to play a 2700-year-old elf awhile back, but will she be able to play 2700 in the future?

Two Hobbit films would accommodate some nice stuff- Unfinished Tales has a great Hobbit prequel, Gandalf's tale of how he snuck into the Necromancer's tower to find the map & key, a very D&Dish account. Then of course there's the War of Dwarves & Goblins in the appendix, the fall of the Necromancer, enough for much more than two films.

It would be great if they could weave the planned Young Aragorn story into all of that rather than making it stand alone. But you know they won't. They're going to end up with Young Aragorn the teen-heartthrob hopeful, spouting Hollywood-philosophical lines to a soundtrack by Elton John, Whitney Houston & Clay Aiken, plus maybe even Sting.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:16 pm 
 

Now...Sting would make an excellent Aragorn.  Wouldn't he?

Interesting to hear about the appendix story plans.  I say, "Cool!"

Might not be as interesting to a general audience, since they are not generally interested in that material in its present form.  (How many Tolkien readers read the apendixes?  I didn't until years later - and this is from a guy who took turns with his wife reading the entire trilogy aloud to our unborn son - mostly because we were fans, not because we are freaks, by the way.)


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Post Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:33 pm 
 

Really, honestly, and truly... don't care at all about any Hobbit film. It might make a good watch, but I despise the source, so anything not boring would be wonderful.

Attack away, but, man, if you've got the patience to read 60 pages of "and he took 50 years to leave Hobbiton..." than, well, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.


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Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:27 am 
 

serleran wrote:Really, honestly, and truly... don't care at all about any Hobbit film. It might make a good watch, but I despise the source, so anything not boring would be wonderful.

Attack away, but, man, if you've got the patience to read 60 pages of "and he took 50 years to leave Hobbiton..." than, well, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.


i agree you with you on that score. i am seriously hoping that barring the meeting of bilbo and the dwarves - they hurry the story along to mirkwood and beorn - that i cant wait to see!

i always had that problem with reading LOTR. i must read it about once a year. every single time, i skip the first 120 or so pages and then just pick up the story.

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Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:02 pm 
 

serleran wrote:Really, honestly, and truly... don't care at all about any Hobbit film. It might make a good watch, but I despise the source, so anything not boring would be wonderful.

Attack away, but, man, if you've got the patience to read 60 pages of "and he took 50 years to leave Hobbiton..." than, well, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.


You might be confusing the beginning of Fellowship of the Ring with the beginning of The Hobbit.  :D

Granted, today's editors would not allow a writer to begin a children's novel with, "In a hole in the ground lived a hobbit."

If The Hobbit were written today it would start out, "The dragon's breath seared the darkness, melting gold to slag and blazing red hot on burnished armor." The rest of the story would then be a flashback to that point.

But then, if The Hobbit were written today, Bilbo would also be bi-sexual.  Hobbit society would not be small-minded...it would be intolerant.  The main crimes of the religious fundamentalist known as the Necromancer would be homophobia and insensitivity to women. Smaug would be a manifestation of nature's wrath against global warming.  Half the characters (including Gandalf) would be kick boxing women.  The Lonely Mountain would symbolize the giant closet in which all dwarves repress their true feelings for each other.  Oh...and the dwarves would end the story by learning that the hostility of the goblins was their own fault for being Dwerro-Centric...and the Arkenstone would symbolize mankind's exploitation of Mother Gaia's bounty......and Bilbo would marry the woodelf king in a glorious pagan ceremony of peace and tolerance.

As it stands, The Hobbit is a remarkably modern novel with mature themes presented to children with grace and honesty.  Not everyone likes it, but (in terms of distribution) it is the single most successful childrens' novel of all time and an honored part of the work of the 20th century's most influential writer.  So...you know...count your blessings, aye?

Mark


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Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:29 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:
You might be confusing the beginning of Fellowship of the Ring with the beginning of The Hobbit.  :D

Granted, today's editors would not allow a writer to begin a children's novel with, "In a hole in the ground lived a hobbit."

If The Hobbit were written today it would start out, "The dragon's breath seared the darkness, melting gold to slag and blazing red hot on burnished armor." The rest of the story would then be a flashback to that point.

But then, if The Hobbit were written today, Bilbo would also be bi-sexual.  Hobbit society would not be small-minded...it would be intolerant.  The main crimes of the religious fundamentalist known as the Necromancer would be homophobia and insensitivity to women. Smaug would be a manifestation of nature's wrath against global warming.  Half the characters (including Gandalf) would be kick boxing women.  The Lonely Mountain would symbolize the giant closet in which all dwarves repress their true feelings for each other.  Oh...and the dwarves would end the story by learning that the hostility of the goblins was their own fault for being Dwerro-Centric...and the Arkenstone would symbolize mankind's exploitation of Mother Gaia's bounty......and Bilbo would marry the woodelf king in a glorious pagan ceremony of peace and tolerance.

As it stands, The Hobbit is a remarkably modern novel with mature themes presented to children with grace and honesty.  Not everyone likes it, but (in terms of distribution) it is the single most successful childrens' novel of all time and an honored part of the work of the 20th century's most influential writer.  So...you know...count your blessings, aye?

Mark


So you've read Pullman, Mark?  :D

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Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:53 pm 
 

I don't know who Pullman is.

Is that a good thing?


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Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:51 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:.and the dwarves would end the story by learning that the hostility of the goblins was their own fault for being Dwerro-Centric


There is a little bit of this in the Silmarillion- 'Mim the Petty Dwarf' claims that Elf civilization is built on a vanquished earlier Dwarven one. Hence the creation myth that the Dwarves awoke first, then were put back to sleep so the Elves could be the first people.

The next conflict between Elves & Dwarves involves a rejected Dwarven request for Elven brides. Overtly, Thingol's rejection is towards the possibility of Elf/Dwarf hybrids, but I think Tolkien was suggesting that such unions did in fact take place, then became taboo to mention. The Noldor, originally called Gnomes, would be good candidates. They share the Dwarves' skill in metalwork, & lived near Moria in Eregion. There's a dwarf in the woodpile, so to speak.

  

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Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:00 pm 
 

You might be confusing the beginning of Fellowship of the Ring with the beginning of The Hobbit.


I know I am. I did that on purpose. Same author, though. Same boredom, too. Tolkien is not an exciting writer. Maybe the stories are great, but I prefer to hear them second-hand, because the original version puts me to sleep.

Then again, I really don't like fantasy books.


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Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:51 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:I don't know who Pullman is.

Is that a good thing?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/His_Dark_Materials

Check out the areas under "Controversy"....

Besides having The Church, God and religion as the bad guys, Pullman has gone on records saying both Tolkien and C.S. Lewis are idiots and their writings are crap (actually, it's a bit harsher than that, but I paraphrased...)

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Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:02 pm 
 

Where did you see his comments about CS Lewis and Tolkien?

I really enjoyed the Spyglass series, but if he's a Tolkien and Lewis basher, I won't buy another one of his books again.

To say that Tolkien is anything less than a literary genius is blasphemy, and should be dealt with accordingly (as in not putting more cash into Mr. Pullman's pocket!)


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Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:26 pm 
 

Center_Stage_Hobbies wrote:Where did you see his comments about CS Lewis and Tolkien?

I really enjoyed the Spyglass series, but if he's a Tolkien and Lewis basher, I won't buy another one of his books again.

To say that Tolkien is anything less than a literary genius is blasphemy, and should be dealt with accordingly (as in not putting more cash into Mr. Pullman's pocket!)


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His story is a rival to the narratives put forward by two earlier Oxford writers, J.R.R. Tolkien's "The Lord of the Rings" and C.S. Lewis's "The Chronicles of Narnia". Pullman loathes the way the children in Narnia are killed in a car-crash. "I dislike his Narnia books because of the solution he offers to the great questions of human life: is there a God, what is the purpose, all that stuff, which he really does engage with pretty deeply, unlike Tolkien who doesn't touch it at all. ‘The Lord of the Rings' is essentially trivial. Narnia is essentially serious, though I don't like the answer Lewis comes up with. If I was doing it at all, I was arguing with Narnia. Tolkien is not worth arguing with."


Actually he's said a lot more on the subject, once he realized it was getting traction in the press and with fans. Essentially, he realized bad mouthing Lewis and Tolkien was getting him pub, and attention whore that he is, he continued.....

http://www.christianitytoday.com/movies/commentaries/fearnotthecompass.html

It's interesting that a man of such extraordinary imagination would have so little regard for the storytellers whose work his style resembles. Pullman scoffs at the stories of Tolkien and Lewis. He says, "The Lord of the Rings is just not interesting psychologically; there's nothing about people in it." And his scorn for Lewis's fantasy world has been widely documented. Pullman has said, "I hate the Narnia books. I hate them with a deep and bitter passion, with their view of childhood as a golden age from which sexuality and adulthood are a falling away." He has called the series "one of the most ugly and poisonous things" he's ever read.


There's lot more examples.  Frankly I don't really care what he thinks anyway, as it's very obvious reading any interview with him that he's shrewdly used his 15 minutes by attacking two great fantasy writers in the hopes of appearing "cutting edge" and "different".  Sheesh.

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