Hey, any of the UK guys thinking about attending the New York Giants/Miami Dolphins american football game this weekend in London at Wembly stadium???  At 0-6, the Dolphins aren't anything special, and might not win another game all season, but the Giants are cranking along having won five in a row and should put on a show.  

http://www.nfllondon2007.com/

Didnt' know Giants star DE Umenyiora was born in London...God, is he going to tear the Dolphins offense line a new one this weekend.....!

Should be fun, this is the first regular season game ever played in Europe (I beileve they have played a regular season game outside the US, in Mexico, at one time) but so sorry you guys couldn't see a decent tilt as you say (with the Dolphins unfortunately going to be the punching dummy in this one).  This will be quite different from both the pre-season games and NFL Europe you might have seen, as it's the real thing.

Mike B.

Football related...

First off, I'd like to apologize to all the Euros out there who watched that travesty of a NFL game this Sunday.  I wouldn't blame you if you never watched another minute of NFL football ever again. Just realize that A. No one thought the Dolphins would be the winless wonders halfway through the season (anyone think they are going to be the first and only team of al time to have a unbeaten season, AND a winless season?); and B. No one thought the Midgets would lower their ability to their opponents to such a horrible extent.  Eli Manning looked like Quincy Carter out there..never mind, I don't actually remember Quincy having a game that bad, even win he was playing stoned....maybe Clint Stoerner had a game that bad? Anyone?  Sheesh.  Again, sorry about the high school quality scrum out there this weekend....

And...did anyone watcth the Patriots press conference after the shellacking of the Redskins?   I swear to God it was the most surreal press conference I've ever witnessed.  Mark my words, win every game this season, lose the first game of the playoffs, Bellicheat is retiring at the end of the year.  He was giving these crazy, wacked zen like answers to questions why he's doing what pretty much only a tiny handful of coaches have done in the last 30 years or so, run up the score during a professional football game. He's doing something really, really weird, entering Buddy Ryan terriroty with the wacky play calls (go for it on fourth down when you are up by THIRTY EIGHT POINTS??????  In Field Goal range?  and have your irreplaceable QB do a sneak to get the yardage??????)  I think he's going to go out on top, and leave his team to face the wrath of teams humiliated the next few years...I can picture the Pats, a couple years down the road, when they are maybe rolling along 5-2 at seasons midpoint, and they face one of the teams they ran up the score on to earn a better BCS ranking, or whyever they are doing it.....and a nasty ass late hit on Brady in the pocket that leaves him with a few cracked ribs and gasping for breath, as the OLB towers over him and sneers "Hey, pretty boy, how does that feel?  That was for the 52-7, motherf***er. Quarterback sneak THAT one buddy....."  Meanwhile Bellicheat will be sipping a Pina Colado on a sandy beach somewhere, working on his system to cheat the casino at blackjack...
  

Mike B.

If you watched last night's game between the Pack and the Broncos, you got to hear some of the "experts" weigh in on why they think the Pats are running up the score on the teams they have played.  I think that Bill Parcells hit it on the head with his comment that basically Belichick and the Pats are out to prove to everyone that they are the best team in the NFL and they dont need to cheat to beat anyone.  There was also some speculation that the Krafts (owners) are none too happy with Belichick at the moment and dont like the way he has basically turned the Pats into the New York Yankees of the NFL.

But honestly...I really dont know if all the hate is justified.  I dont really like the Pats, but that isnt because of anything that they have done on the field.  I am a Cowboys fan so it doesnt make sense for me to also be a Pats fan.  But I do respect them...because they are, at this point, the best team by far in the NFL.  Is Belichick really running up the score on these teams just because he wants to make a point?  Maybe, but doesnt it seem more obvious that he is keeping Brady in there because he has a chance to shatter just about every single season QB record there is?  Brady has always been considered to be second-best to Peyton Manning.  Regardless of his three Super Bowl wins and Super Bowl MVP awards, he still doesn't get the respect (at least not in this part of the country) that Peyton Manning does.

Or are the Pats just that much better than all of the other NFL teams?  It is kind of difficult to "not score" when you have demoralized and destroyed your opponent.  When I played football in high school we played a team that at the time was 0-7.  We knew they were  bad but didnt realize just how bad they were.  We started the game by running back the opening kickoff 78 yards.  We scored a touchdown on the very next play.  By halftime, the score was 42-0.  Most of the first string players were so tired by halftime due to all the running we were doing during kickoffs that our coach put the majority of the second string players in.  It didnt matter.  We still scored points on them.  At one point the coach was putting in linemen to run the ball just to give the running backs a break.  We had our third string QB in and he was making mistakes but we were still moving the ball down the field.  Eventually late in the game the other team was able to move the ball on our freshmen defense and score a touchdown.  However they only came away with six points due to a blocked extra point.  At the end of the game the score was 65-6 and we had racked up over 700 yards of total offense and held them to less than 100 yards of offense.  The opposing coach told our coach that he was unhappy because we ran up the score but how do you justify not scoring when you have the opportunity to?  Two weeks later we played our last game of the year and got beat 38-0 by the eventual Texas state 1A champions.  After the game one of our coaches was pissed that they ran the score up on us.  I didnt understand why he felt that way because up until that game we were a very good team and were considered a significant threat to them.  Their coach came over to us after the game and told us that even though the score didnt reflect it, that we were the toughest team they played all year and they had worked their asses off that week in preparation for the game.  Several of their starters went on to play college football and two of them ended up in the NFL.  I still have the distinct pleasure of knocking Zach Thomas (Miami Dolphins LB for anyone who doesnt know) on his ass during a kickoff return during that game.  Suffice to say he wasnt nearly as big then as he is now!  

I think the Pats will continue to dominate teams the rest of the year as long as Brady and Moss stay healthy.  My feeling is that they will crush the Colts next week and run the gauntlet on the rest if their opponents and we will see only the second team in NFL history to go undefeated in the regular season.  The playoffs are another matter though.  We'll see what happens then.

Kingofpain89 wrote:Brady has always been considered to be second-best to Peyton Manning.  Regardless of his three Super Bowl wins and Super Bowl MVP awards, he still doesn't get the respect (at least not in this part of the country) that Peyton Manning does.

King, I don't know what television shows you watch, but all the national guys can't ever stop falling over themselves to talk about how great f**king Brady is, Phil Simms probably more so than anyone else.  They all talk like he is the second coming of Christ. As a matter of fact until Manning won the SB last year he was roundly considered to be completely inferior to Brady, as although he always put up great regular season numbers, he could never win the "Big One".

The Krafts are plenty happy with Belichick. He makes them a stupid amount of money, and he wins. The rumors are just rumors.
As far as running up the score, I can name several coaches and industry figures who specifically questioned the Pats' past successes, and specifically stated that their success was due to the videotaping (which all teams used to do). He has every right to run the score up as high as he wants. Don't like it? Then play better, and stop them. I don't recall anyone claiming the Colts were running up the score in the past... And everyone needs to stop acting like this is intramural high school football. There are HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of dollars involved here. If it were my team, I wouldn't have taken Brady out at all. A TD record for him means more money for the Pats, plain and simple.  
Scoring the most points ever in a season means more money for the Pats. And when it all comes down to it, it is a JOB. People get PAID people make MONEY.
The sour grapes thing is old and childish. This happens every single year that the Pats do well. First it's the tuck rule, then receiver bumping, blah blah blah.
The Pats win because they have the best coaching staff in the league. They won 3 times without Moss and Welker, in fact their receivers have typically been average or slightly below, as have their running backs.
The Colts game next week is of course blown out of proportion. Neither team will fail to make the playoffs if they lose. But the NFL loves to hype games, which is fine, it makes them more money. The Pats certainly have the edge, but Indy could just as easily win. We shall see.

Kingofpain89 wrote:If you watched last night's game between the Pack and the Broncos, you got to hear some of the "experts" weigh in on why they think the Pats are running up the score on the teams they have played.  I think that Bill Parcells hit it on the head with his comment that basically Belichick and the Pats are out to prove to everyone that they are the best team in the NFL and they dont need to cheat to beat anyone.  There was also some speculation that the Krafts (owners) are none too happy with Belichick at the moment and dont like the way he has basically turned the Pats into the New York Yankees of the NFL.

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I thought Parcells hit the nail on the head...but with a twist.  I think Bellicheat is running up the score because it's basically his way of giving the middle finger to the commissioner, to the league, and to the coaches who turned him in for cheating.  They've already "punished" him, there is nothing more anyone can do, so why not rub their noses in it by turning the games into mockeries?  In Bellicheat's mind (and it may be reality, who knows) everyone does it, only HE got caught and punished for it, and he's showing up what he considers the "hypocrites" of the NFL by basically beating the crap out of them and utterly humiliating them.  

Unfortunately, the reason I would be upset if I was Pats management, is that this is just a job to Bellicheat that he can leave any day, and the players and management have to stick around.  And a lot of the coaches, and players, being humiliated this season have long memories...and will be up for payback in the years to come.  I mean, the Dolphins aren't going to be sad sack forever...and the Pats, through no fault of their own, will be on the end of a shellacking themselves, or maybe even a cheap shot or two in the next couple of years after Bellicheat has retired to Maui or where ever. The Krafts have to think long term here, and it's not nice to piss off coaches (and even owners) who may not appreciate the head games Bellicheat is pulling right now and take it out on franchise players...which are sizable financial investments for the Krafts.

Confession time:  I sat down to watch the Pats/Redskins hoping for a Skins beat down....I'm a Cowboys fan after all, and the worse the skins lose, the better, plus I have Brady as QB in one of my leagues.  By the 4th quarter, I was cheering for a Skins TD, a late hit on Brady, a cheap shot on Moss, anything just to wipe the insrutable look on Bellicheat's mug off his face. if I was the coach for the Jets or Dolphins, and in Week 14 or 15 the Pats were running QB sneaks or fake spikes late in the game with a sizable lead, I would start calling blitzes on every play...with orders to have Brady ON THE GROUND when the whistle blows, by hook or by crook. I mean,you are going to lose anyway, why be the Pat's bitch also?  And Moss....well, if you have to give up a few defensive interference penalties, but Moss is taking a nice blistering slam at the end of each play, I mean, you are going to lose anyway...Payback's gonna be a bitch....

Mike B.

How do we know that Bill Bellicose isn't still cheating now???

bonk!

killjoy32 wrote:ya know...its wierd this talk that y'all have of "running up the score" and all that, that the pats are being apparently accused of. i really dont understand it. maybe its because of the fact that i am british and my mind-set is totally different from that perspective, i really dont know.

suffice to say this though:

if i was running an NFL team, i would want to WIN. simple as that and i would want to win by as much as possible. so if it meant i was 52-7 up or whatever and the chance was there to score more, well f*ck that, get in there and stick the points on them! sheesh what is that about!

what i WOULD do though, if the score was a very comfortable one that would allow me variety, i would throw on players i wanted to have a look at/test etc and use the opportunity from a different perspective and give them some game-time.

Al

Well, Al, you have to understand there are two kinds of running up the score. One is what ex Dallas Cowboys coach Jimmy Johnson used to do.  During the Aikman-Irvin-Smith glory days, if the Cowboys were ahead by say 4 TDs in the 4th quarter in an otherwise meaningless game, he'd put in the scrubs, call off the blitzes, and run the ball every play when the Cowboys were on offense...predicated that the other team would do the same. If, however, the other team didn't follow suit by also just running the ball (basically trying to just get the game over) and started throwing long bombs, running no huddle plays, keeping all their starters in, well, it was fair game for the Cowboys to also stick their starters back in, start running blitzes, etc.  His quote was "The other team hasn't stopped playing offense, so I won't either" when asked about that.  Basically acknowledging that the other team and the Cowboys kind of had a gentleman's agreement...we'll call off the dogs if you decide to go quietly. In this case, running up the score is simply a byproduct of the fact "We are just trying to get the game over with". Hell, I've seen teams take a knee for three straight plays when they are at the other teams 1 yard line and already ahead, rather than punch in a meaningless TD or kick a meaningless FG just to be bastards.

What Bellicheat is doing is an entirely different monster.  He's deliberately trying to HUMILIATE the other team by pulling nonsense like not kicking a short Field goal and going for it on 4th down (up by five TDS!), throwing the ball late in the game instead of just handing the ball off and running out the clock, running trick plays up by 5 TDs in the 4th quarter.  If Bellicheat was pulling all his starters when up by 5 TDs and having the backup QB hand the ball off every play to the backup RB, and they were STILL putting up 50 pts a game, no one would be complaining.  This is just overkill.  Every sport has a procedure for this sort of thing...when your baseball team is up 10 runs you don't steal a base....when a basketball team is up 50 pts you pull all your starters and play the token white guy at the end of the bench....when a hockey team is up by 8 goals you put in the backup goalie...hell maybe even you english soccer teams have a similar procedure (since I've never seen a team up more than 2 goals in a game in my life I can't guess at this....!)  It's just understood...Belicheat is single handedly making a mockery of the "gentleman's code" of pro sports.

The question isn't whether or not they can do it...hell, probably any given Sunday a really good football team could put up 50 on a dog if they WANTED to wipe their boot on them...but they don't, because it's not good sportsmanship, and even worse, as people on this board have been saying, payback is a bitch. As an example, look at when the Cowboys or Packers play, and how the QBs Romo and Favre interact with the other team. They are laughing, slapping the opponents on the helmets when they make a big play, and patting the other team on the back and butts, hell Favre made a big joke about getting sacked by Strahan a few years back when Strahan got the sack record (he basically fell down as Strahan came at him....handing him the record).  This may seem counter intuitive but I wonder if that's why no one has ever really taken a cheap shot at Favre, and hopefully that will follow Romo also.

So, conversely, if your team is having it's nose rubbed into it's own crap by a superior team who are going out of their way to do so, you don't think it pops into a defensive lineman's mind "Man, that pretty boy Brady is still THROWING and they are up by 5 TDs, F**k this, the next time I get in there I'm going to pound that little punk....."  I guarantee you that guys like Favre and Romo are out there trying to make their teams win any way possible without pissing someone off.  At this point, it's really just looking like both Bellicheat and Brady are padding Brady's stats, running up the score for the purpose of trying to prove some point, and taking a chance on turning the end of the season games into some real ugliness.

Honestly, if I was a Pats fan, I would be worried sick about the last three weeks of the season and facing a Jets and Dolphins team (and maybe even a Giants team) that may have no reason to play except to hurt someone....particularly the Jets, whose head coach used to coach under Bellicheat, and may be losing his job anyway, and may not have a lot to lose if he "plays aggressively".....

Mike B.

Mikey, when you talk about Tony Homo and Favre laughing it up, you're right, but you're forgetting one small detail: no one has insulted them the way Brady and the Pats in general have been insulted.
Belichick will not leave NE. I've read several books on the guy, and I've followed him since WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY before he came here. He is totally, 100% obsessed with football and winning. He is NOT interested in "starting over" and building up a shit team into a champion.
You don't live here, so you don't know what the mentality is. I know people who would rip out their kids' kidneys and donate them if Billy needed one. He is without question THE most loved sports coach of ANY sport here, EVER. He knows it; he isn't going anywhere.
If teams didn't want the Pats to humiliate them with FU touchdowns, they should have shut their asses after the fine and draft pick penalization. But no, everyone had to run their mouths. Well, rest assured the Pats will take the price out of their hides and prides. No one's gonna get to Brady, and anyone who starts playing breakneck football will get his ass handed to him by the entire league. NO ONE in the league likes breakers; they never last long.