Deadlord39 wrote:Well, as a 30 year football fan, I can tell you I've never seen a better or more complete team.

You didn't watch a lot of football in the early 90s.  I never saw a better team than the Cowboys circa 92-95.  Never.  Not even the Steelers of the 70s or 49s of the 80s...the Pats of the early part of this century come closest, but they still lucked into a superbowl (the famous Tuck Rule game) and don't have any hall of famers besides Brady to hang their hat on every week.  Plus the Pats play in one of the absolute patsy divisions of the entire NFL, while the Cowboys have been stuck in the meatgrinder of the NFC east.  
  When watching the Cowboys games of the early 90s, you sat down and were assured of a few things:  Jimmy Johnson, Norv Turner, Dave Wannstaddt, Joe Avazzano and the rest were going to coach the pants off every opponent; Emmitt was going to get 100 yds and a couple of TDs, unless he mixed it up and got 150 yds or 3-4 Tds; 2. Irvin was going to make at least one clutch catch on third down for a first down every game, unless he decided to mix it up and do it a couple-three times a game; Aikman was going to be the model of efficiency and throw for 250 yds, no Ints, and like as not a couple TDs; the defense was going to bury whoever they played, and then send in their SECOND team in the second half to put flowers on the grave; there would be at least one or two time sucking drives that lasted 8-9 minutes that would start from the Cowboys 20 and grind downfield until Emmitt, Irvin, Harper or Novecek put it in the endzone, totally demoralizing the opponent until they just gave up around the 4th quarter; some kicker that the Cowboys had pulled in off the soup kitchen line was going to have a career year and hit everything he kicked right between the goal posts; and just for laughs, about twice a year the Boys would pull out one of their "special" games where something happened that you would remember forever, like Emmitt's classic last day of the season game vs the Giants in 1994.  Three hall of famers (four if you count Larry Allen, he should go in eventually also) and to top it off, they played in the TOUGHEST division in football in those days....the Giants and Redskins had already won superbowls in 90 and 91, and the Eagles were pretty good in those days also, then had to play the Favre led Packers or Young led 49s every year in the NFC championship game to get the right to go to the superbowl. Now THAT was a great team.....

Mike B.

On January 2, we saw another part of Emmitt Smith's heart, the chunk that drives him on the playing field. In the second quarter of the regular-season finale against the Giants, he suffered a separated right shoulder. The Cowboys needed the victory to win the NFC East championship and home-field advantage in the playoffs; Smith needed a big running day to ensure a third consecutive rushing title. But with the shoulder hurt, it made no sense for him to play anymore, at least not until the Giants closed to within 13-7 early in the third quarter. No way was he going to sit out, not if his team might lose. He told coach Jimmy Johnson to put him in. And make sure, he told Johnson, that he wasn't used as a decoy. He wanted the ball.

He got it. The game went into overtime. On the Cowboys' only possession in the extra period, he was involved in nine of 11 plays and gained 41 of 51 yards. He even stiff-armed Lawrence Taylor. With the bad arm. Eddie Murray finished the series with a winning field goal. Smith, who gained 168 yards and touched the ball 42 times running and catching for a club record, won the rushing title. "I had cartilage damage in training camp this year in my shoulder and I didn't want to go back in," strong safety Darren Woodson says, "and I was only practicing. I saw the pain he was in, and I expected him to sit out We've got a lot of competitors on this team, but he is probably the fiercest one. No question, be has the biggest heart here. He expects to win games and he doesn't expect anyone else to do it for him. Because he cares."

Thanks to television, the viewing audience was aware of Smith's game odyssey. But not the rest of the story.

In the locker room afterward, and during the ensuing flight home, Smith endured excruciating pain in his chest. During some of the late-game tackles, he had heard crackling sounds around his heart, like something was being crushed. Now, he thought he was having a heart attack. He was scared for his fife. He was given a painkiller, so he could sleep on the plane. But he would wake up and scream. "That dude was crying, man," says fullback Tommie Agee, a close friend. "It got to a point where I was hurting to see him hurting like that. But even my wife doesn't understand why we do play when we hurt. You get caught up in the heat of the battle and you tend to block out common sense. Guts and emotion take control of you. He would have sacrificed his arm to win."

When the team landed in Dallas, Smith went to the hospital for an overnight stay. He later appeared in three playoff games, including the Super Bowl, where he was chosen MVP (132 yards rushing, two touchdowns). With a shoulder that required offseason surgery. "I didn't think I could damage it anymore, that's why I stayed in the Giants game," he says. "You have players relying on you. I didn't want to let them down. If I had sat out I probably wouldn't have needed surgery. But once you go back in, you are willing to accept the consequences.

Deadlord39 wrote:Hmmmmm.

Aikman-----Brady.
Irvin-----Troy Brown. Or Moss. Or Welker. Pick one.
Sanders-----Samuel. Or Harrison. or Gay.
Emmitt----- No direct comparison. The Pats traditionally split running between 2 backs.
Defense burying opponents----- Ayuh. Covered.

I don't even have a horse in this particular race, but I can't help but disagree on some of these.  I should also mention as being a Pittsburgh fan I have been on the wrong end of both of these teams at some point so I can say that I have some perspective.  Here goes:


Aikman-----Brady.  

As much as I hate Tom Brady, this is a fair comparison. Actually in the long run, Brady may even be judged the better of the two if not already.

Irvin-----Troy Brown. Or Moss. Or Welker. Pick one.

Ummm no and I hate Irvin the coke head.  Talent wise, Moss compares favorably, but Welker or Troy Brown, thats just a big NO.  Welker has been in the league 4 years now and he just had his first 100 yard receiving game ever this last week.  Not even in the same ballpark as Irvin. Troy Brown?  I actually really like Troy Brown.  Troy Brown is the type of player that wins you championships because of the things he does that no one notices. That said, talent wise he's not even the same ball park as Irvin.

Sanders-----Samuel. Or Harrison. or Gay.

Again I am anything but a Deion Sanders fan, as a matter of fact I think he is perhaps one of the most overated players of this generation.  That said, he is one of the better cover corners to ever play the game.  He wouldn't hit a 6 year old with no pads on, but he was a great kick returner and cover man. Unfortunately pro-football isn't played with flags around your waist so IMO I don't even think he should sniff the HOF.  Samuel hasbn;t been in the league long enough to effectively compare them.  He might end up being better overall, biut its too early.  Harrison is a big hitter, but has never been much of a cover guy and Gay is a solid player, but he doesn't affect the game the way Deion Sanders did.  No coach has ever game planned away from throwing at Randall Gay which can not be said for Deion Sanders.

Defense burying opponents----- Ayuh. Covered.

Dallas defense back in the early 90's was a difference maker. They won games when the offence had a bad game(including the 95 SB).  I think the Pats defense this year is actually the achilles heal of the team. Great coaching aside, the Pats defense is very beatable and I think the Cowboys help expose a bit that this week.  I mean its not like the Pats have played any real offensive juggernauts until Dallas and Dallas despite not playing all that great still scored 20 on them. I also think if Dallas would have run the ball more with Barber they would have been much better off.  Dallas has a nice team, but they match up horribly on defense against the Pats because of the shaky secondary versus the overpowering passing game of the Pats.  

I think a lot of people are handing the Lombardi to the Pats this year need to sit back and relax a bit.  Christ its 6 games into the season, just a bit early don't ya think.  A team that can run the ball effectively and play solid pass defense against the Pats are going to give them fits, trust me.  People have also kind of written off the Chargers already because of the bad loss in Foxboro, but I am not sure San Diego could have played much worse then they did that game.  It actually kind of reminds me of how poorly the Steelers played in Indianaoplis back in 2006. Needless to say we all know how that later playoff game turned out.  I won't be surprised at all if that happens to the Pats this year.  I also think that if Randy Moss gets hurt and is out for any signifigant amount of time, the Pats are going to be very vulnerable. Moss, love him or hate him, is why the Pats have done as well as they have this year so far.

bclarkie wrote:"Thou shall not hit Tom Brady". What a bitch.

HA!

I have to disagree about Moss, though. The way Brady spreads it around, the loss of one WR won't hurt that much. Even if he is one of the top 3 in the league. Heck, he made Deion Branch a Super Bowl MVP! Stallworth is, alone, the best WR the Pats have had in a long while (Troy Brown, God love him, was a great player, but...). If they lose Brady, though... anyone know the back-up QB in New England? Matt Cassel. Yeah...

(FYI: Matt Cassel started ONE game in college. As a tight end. Seriously)

bclarkie wrote:

I don't even have a horse in this particular race, but I can't help but disagree on some of these.  I should also mention as being a Pittsburgh fan I have been on the wrong end of both of these teams at some point so I can say that I have some perspective.  Here goes:


Aikman-----Brady.  

As much as I hate Tom Brady, this is a fair comparison. Actually in the long run, Brady may even be judged the better of the two if not already.

Stat wise Brady is much better. Troy excelled at NOT making mistakes...I believe his completion percentage in the playoffs is still a record, and he threw like 1, 2 INTs all time in the playoffs?  Brady can make yobboes like Troy Brown and Deion Branch into stars, while I don't think that was in Troy's nature, he was lucky he had Irvin.  In Dallas we had to put up with Aikman's bitching because he was so used to Irvin running the same route every time out he would get pissed when someone didn't run a route correctly.  I honestly don't think it bothers Brady that much.  Right now, Brady is a lock for the HOF based solely on the three rings, the stats he's amassing will just be icing on the cake.

Irvin-----Troy Brown. Or Moss. Or Welker. Pick one.

Ummm no and I hate Irvin the coke head.  Talent wise, Moss compares favorably, but Welker or Troy Brown, thats just a big NO.  Welker has been in the league 4 years now and he just had his first 100 yard receiving game ever this last week.  Not even in the same ballpark as Irvin. Troy Brown?  I actually really like Troy Brown.  Troy Brown is the type of player that wins you championships because of the things he does that no one notices. That said, talent wise he's not even the same ball park as Irvin.

I agree with BC here....Brady's talent is making the David Patten's of the world look good.  On any other team Wes Welker would be what he was in Miami, basically Wayne Chrebet.  There's a reason Irvin got into the HOF despite the personal issues, it's not just the three rings, it was a lot of intangibles. The one closest on the Pats in terms of attitude is Troy Brown, he could play on my team anytime. But talentwise, you could put them all in a box (including Randy Moss), shake and mix, and maybe you'd get someone approaching Irvin.  And BTW I'm not ready to annoint Moss yet.  He basically whined and faked injuries to get out of Oakland and ended up on the Pats...lucky him.  Something tells me if he'd ended up on the Bears, he'd have about 20 catches, three TDs, and a "pulled hammy" that keeps him out of practice.  His mental attitude is crap, and woe to the Pats if they ever stop losing or he goes a couple games without getting the ball thrown is way every series.

Sanders-----Samuel. Or Harrison. or Gay.

Again I am anything but a Deion Sanders fan, as a matter of fact I think he is perhaps one of the most overated players of this generation.  That said, he is one of the better cover corners to ever play the game.  He wouldn't hit a 6 year old with no pads on, but he was a great kick returner and cover man. Unfortunately pro-football isn't played with flags around your waist so IMO I don't even think he should sniff the HOF.  Samuel hasbn;t been in the league long enough to effectively compare them.  He might end up being better overall, biut its too early.  Harrison is a big hitter, but has never been much of a cover guy and Gay is a solid player, but he doesn't affect the game the way Deion Sanders did.  No coach has ever game planned away from throwing at Randall Gay which can not be said for Deion Sanders.

Ditto. Although I actually believe Deion will get into the HOF someday, he may be overrated but the guy is a self promoter of the highest order, and being in the media now gives him the platform to tout his "skills". Typically, anyone you have to game plan for and that changes the nature of the game, gets in (except for Bob Hayes..don't EVEN get me started there...should be in the HOF hands down...). Don't forget Deion's return ability, he wasn't Devin Hester (who is) but was close in that if you kicked it right to him, you were going to be staring at his back as he cruised to the endzone.

Defense burying opponents----- Ayuh. Covered.

Dallas defense back in the early 90's was a difference maker. They won games when the offence had a bad game(including the 95 SB).  I think the Pats defense this year is actually the achilles heal of the team. Great coaching aside, the Pats defense is very beatable and I think the Cowboys help expose a bit that this week.  I mean its not like the Pats have played any real offensive juggernauts until Dallas and Dallas despite not playing all that great still scored 20 on them. I also think if Dallas would have run the ball more with Barber they would have been much better off.  Dallas has a nice team, but they match up horribly on defense against the Pats because of the shaky secondary versus the overpowering passing game of the Pats.  

The Pats defense does compare favorably.  I like a lot of the stuff they do and they have a level of competence the Cowboys had, where you didn't really have any superstars (maybe Darren Woodson and Charles Haley) but a lot of above average, extremely competent guys out there just making plays.  Then there were guys like Larry Brown (SB 95 MVP, thank you Neil) and Chad Hennings who seemed to play up to the skill level around them and became better players because of it.

I think a lot of people are handing the Lombardi to the Pats this year need to sit back and relax a bit.  Christ its 6 games into the season, just a bit early don't ya think.  A team that can run the ball effectively and play solid pass defense against the Pats are going to give them fits, trust me.  People have also kind of written off the Chargers already because of the bad loss in Foxboro, but I am not sure San Diego could have played much worse then they did that game.  It actually kind of reminds me of how poorly the Steelers played in Indianaoplis back in 2006. Needless to say we all know how that later playoff game turned out.  I won't be surprised at all if that happens to the Pats this year.  I also think that if Randy Moss gets hurt and is out for any signifigant amount of time, the Pats are going to be very vulnerable. Moss, love him or hate him, is why the Pats have done as well as they have this year so far.

Ditto on Moss.  And Brady IMO is irrecplacable. He's on that sort of mindless zone that Peyton had the year he broke the TD record.  The man is a difference maker.

That's why I said I think there will be a mystery guest in the AFC playoffs this year, and it wont' be the Colts or Pats.  Maybe the Steelers or Chargers will step up....

Mike B.

killjoy32 wrote:

ps. and fyi, i was ONE of the million trying to get a ticket, even though i hate both teams playing.

I tried as well, but I don't hate both teams! (I follow Miami so I shall say very little- oh dear!)

killjoy32 wrote:i still can't believe that dallas didnt run the ball more though. how can you not notice how effective it was being, against how ineffective the passing game was?

so who do you think in the remaining games, has a chance of breaching the NE defence effectively?

Al

Do not question the genius of Wade Philips! [/sarcasm]

I don't know why they didn't run more. It may be the fact that there was little time left and Dallas had to score quickly and running the ball was taking up to much time. New England could have been conceding the run to protect the pass and this was why Barber looked so good. New England knew that they could allow Dallas to run the ball, but they could not score enough points to make a difference.

As far as a good opponent against the Pats, the Colts stack up the best. Both teams rely heavily on the offense winning the game for them and in a shoot out, I'll take Peyton Manning anyday. Also, the Pittsburgh defense is pretty damn good and could cause New England problems and they have a decent enough offense (Willie Parker).

killjoy32 wrote:so ok. branching off a little.

of the teams NE have yet to play, who has a solid passing defence?

Of their remaining games, I'd say Washington, Baltimore and Pittsburgh have solid defenses. Miami has some good players (Thomas, Porter, Taylor), but they are getting old. But if the wiley vets can get it together for one game, it'd be New England, so watch out...

killjoy32 wrote:do you think favre and the GB offence might offer up a high scoring game?

I like (or dislike) Favre as much as the next guy, but I really think Green Bay is winning by smoke and mirrors. Someone will show them up. But they have a favorable schedule, so they should be OK. They don't play New England this year...

killjoy32 wrote:i watched the dallas/NE game to about late in the 2nd quarter then had to go bed....sheesh, but even at that point, where NE only had 21 or so on the board, dallas had started to run the ball, as thats when barber did that amazing little run out of the end zone, so even at that point, it was effective. they could have easily applied it there, where there was still more than enough time in the game to do something about it.

DO NOT QUESTION THE GENIUS THAT IS WADE PHILIPS!

I don't know.. sometimes coaches get something stuck in their head and are pretty stubborn. In a shoot out, you gotta score points so maybe Philips wanted to rack up points quickly. Romo, Owens and Whitten are a pretty potent passing attack (when Romo doesn't throw 6 INTs). But yeah, running seemed like a good idea...

killjoy32 wrote:what do you think will happen when they play again? same kinda game or a totally different outlook?

Al

Dallas and New England? They won't play again... unless its the Super Bowl. And if they DO (I doubt it, tho), New England will beat them again (barring injuries). New England is the better team and they have experience in the Super Bowl...

Honestly, the team that will win against the Pats is not the team with the best pass defense. The passing is just too damn good. It will be the team that plays them when Brady has a meltdown day. He does have them occasinally, and he throws 3+ interceptions when he does. 95% of those games are losses.

Deadlord39 wrote:http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/rumors/post ... =nfl,49465

Hilarious. No, they're not gunning for the Pats!

I have noticed a few quarterbacks not buckling their chinstraps...almost like a style fad for that position.

The thing is, the chin strap is not optional...the helmet becomes actively dangerous without the chinstraps secured.  I was wondering when someone was going to get hurt.