Lost Tamoachan
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 5 of 51, 2, 3, 4, 5
Author

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 7949
Joined: Jun 23, 2003
Last Visit: Apr 15, 2021
Location: DFW TX

Post Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:32 pm 
 

HermitFromPluto wrote:

(PS And I agree with you on Wikipedia, it's left traditional encyclopaedias such as EB in the dust)


It's great on pop culture, current events, tv shows, movie stars, media stuff in general...

It's horrific on anything political, controversial or religious.

I've related this before, a friend of mine who is a history teacher noticed some very suspicious items in some papers he assigned.  The kids were taking attributions and references directly from Wiki with very dubious results sometimes.  He now deducts a letter grade for any Wiki reference in a paper...encouraging the students to go to the library and do their own research from a variety of sources.  It's amazing how many of his students thought they could just surf wikipedia to write all their history papers without any original research at all.

Mike B.


"THE MORE YOU THINK ABOUT WHY i DONE WHAT i DONE THE MORE i LAUGH" Cougar
"The Acaeum hates fun" Sir Allen
"I had a collecting emergency" Nogrod
Co-founder of the North Texas RPG Con
http://www.ntrpgcon.com

 WWW  


Sage Collector
JG Valuation Board
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 2044
Joined: Aug 28, 2006
Last Visit: Mar 11, 2021
Location: Tashkent, Uzbekistan

Post Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:26 pm 
 

I agree with you there. I would never use Wikipedia as a solid reference when writing an academic paper. I can see how it would be a problem with school students. It is useful though when trying to get basic info on something, or a first quick appraisal of a topic.

However, I think it is only a matter of time. I have read that Wikipedia is working on the quality control issue and should eventually conquer it. The question is whether they can do it without going commercial.  I have seen some exceptionally good aticles on Wikipedia, especially in the science field. The same article I read, stated Wikipedia already had five times as much information as EB.

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6720
Joined: Jul 16, 2005
Last Visit: Feb 02, 2021

Post Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:30 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:
It's great on pop culture, current events, tv shows, movie stars, media stuff in general...

It's horrific on anything political, controversial or religious.

I've related this before, a friend of mine who is a history teacher noticed some very suspicious items in some papers he assigned.  The kids were taking attributions and references directly from Wiki with very dubious results sometimes.  He now deducts a letter grade for any Wiki reference in a paper...encouraging the students to go to the library and do their own research from a variety of sources.  It's amazing how many of his students thought they could just surf wikipedia to write all their history papers without any original research at all.

Mike B.


In my direct experience, today's high school and middle school students do not know the difference between "write" and "download."

I have seen 8th graders turn in papers that were cut and pasted directly from Encarta...and then get mad when this wasn't good enough.  They seriously do not know the difference.  "You asked me to find this information!  Well...here it is!"

Given the critical thinking skills of the average person, I suspect that many students would be honestly unable to tell the difference between Wikipedia and any other source of information.

So, the start of any assignment would have to include the admonition that Wikipedia downloads will result in an F.


"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

  


Sage Collector
JG Valuation Board
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 2044
Joined: Aug 28, 2006
Last Visit: Mar 11, 2021
Location: Tashkent, Uzbekistan

Post Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:00 pm 
 

Interesting points. I imagine that primary and secondary school curricula will need to adapt to the information age - what with kids having everything available at the touch of a button. I imagine a lot of the teaching is still similar to when we went to school and you had to borrow books from libraries to learn about a subject.

It may be time to start rethinking how we teach kids. Instead of 'Write an assignment on Henry V' , it may have to be 'Read these three articles on Henry V (EB, Wiki, book article), note any differences? Which do you find to be the best article and why?'

It is an interesting subject, I had a another discussion a few years ago on how the information age is actually de-educating rather than educating. This was more along the lines of if kids have 100 channels, are they going to watch news and documentaries or sport and flashing music clips?

  

User avatar

Long-Winded Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 3593
Joined: Dec 20, 2003
Last Visit: Apr 18, 2021
Location: Canada

Post Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:04 pm 
 

Wow did this ever get off topic 8O

But I digress :wink:


Games can get you through times of no money but money can not get you through times of no games!!

 WWW  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 760
Joined: Dec 31, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 18, 2021
Location: Dallas, TX

Post Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:07 pm 
 

It may be time to start rethinking how we teach kids. Instead of 'Write an assignment on Henry V' , it may have to be 'Read these three articles on Henry V (EB, Wiki, book article), note any differences? Which do you find to be the best article and why?'


If you ask kids to think, it doesn't matter what information they may have at their fingertips. Some teachers are lazy.. it is these who would most need to change. Similarly, calculators are introduced way too early in school nowadays, but there are easy ways around that to get the kids to think.

At the end of the day, though, high school has become just glorified day care in many cases.

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 7949
Joined: Jun 23, 2003
Last Visit: Apr 15, 2021
Location: DFW TX

Post Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:35 pm 
 

MShipley88 wrote:
In my direct experience, today's high school and middle school students do not know the difference between "write" and "download."

I have seen 8th graders turn in papers that were cut and pasted directly from Encarta...and then get mad when this wasn't good enough.  They seriously do not know the difference.  "You asked me to find this information!  Well...here it is!"

Given the critical thinking skills of the average person, I suspect that many students would be honestly unable to tell the difference between Wikipedia and any other source of information.

So, the start of any assignment would have to include the admonition that Wikipedia downloads will result in an F.


I'll have to get some more stories from my friend...he told me a few the last time he was in town (he teaches in Tennessee) but I don't remember a lot of them.  Suffice to say the common element is that students always are "shocked" when their directly-copied-from-internet paper is given a bad grade, plus they are always shocked he finds them out (like, wow, you are over 40, you know how to use the internet, dude?)

Mike B.


"THE MORE YOU THINK ABOUT WHY i DONE WHAT i DONE THE MORE i LAUGH" Cougar
"The Acaeum hates fun" Sir Allen
"I had a collecting emergency" Nogrod
Co-founder of the North Texas RPG Con
http://www.ntrpgcon.com

 WWW  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 7949
Joined: Jun 23, 2003
Last Visit: Apr 15, 2021
Location: DFW TX

Post Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:39 pm 
 

HermitFromPluto wrote:Interesting points. I imagine that primary and secondary school curricula will need to adapt to the information age - what with kids having everything available at the touch of a button. I imagine a lot of the teaching is still similar to when we went to school and you had to borrow books from libraries to learn about a subject.

It may be time to start rethinking how we teach kids. Instead of 'Write an assignment on Henry V' , it may have to be 'Read these three articles on Henry V (EB, Wiki, book article), note any differences? Which do you find to be the best article and why?'

It is an interesting subject, I had a another discussion a few years ago on how the information age is actually de-educating rather than educating. This was more along the lines of if kids have 100 channels, are they going to watch news and documentaries or sport and flashing music clips?


I have to agree with all your points...good ones.  On one hand the internet has let us have information at our fingertips, it's invaluable for finding information fast.  On the other, kids are losing all skills having to do with actually looking up information that does not involve web surfing.'

  To keep it on topic, now that's it's easier to find stuff like Lost Tamoachaon and Ghost Tower on the internet (you can google these now)  and discover exactly what they are, will that raise the awareness of collectors, causing prices to go up?

Mike B.


"THE MORE YOU THINK ABOUT WHY i DONE WHAT i DONE THE MORE i LAUGH" Cougar
"The Acaeum hates fun" Sir Allen
"I had a collecting emergency" Nogrod
Co-founder of the North Texas RPG Con
http://www.ntrpgcon.com

 WWW  


Sage Collector
JG Valuation Board
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 2044
Joined: Aug 28, 2006
Last Visit: Mar 11, 2021
Location: Tashkent, Uzbekistan

Post Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:35 am 
 

To keep it on topic, now that's it's easier to find stuff like Lost Tamoachaon and Ghost Tower on the internet (you can google these now)  and discover exactly what they are, will that raise the awareness of collectors, causing prices to go up?

You may be right, the prices for the rares seem to continue to climb - I guess like rare books in any genre.

I am on sabbatical at the moment, back at University. I want to get a Tamoachan one day, but will have to wait until I am working again. I hope they are not too much more expensive by then!

Me to wife: "What would you like for your birthday dear"
My Wife: "Oh a diamond ring would be lovely - how about you, a Rolex?"
Me: "No how about this old yellowing 16 page booklet called Tamoachan!"

  
Previous
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 5 of 51, 2, 3, 4, 5