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Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:54 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:
I agree.  Grain of salt necessary.  The 3E fanboys will beat the hell out of it


Could someone give an example of this?

How is this done?

Is there an example of an inaccurate statement?


"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

  


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Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:13 pm 
 

MShipley88 wrote:
Could someone give an example of this?

How is this done?

Is there an example of an inaccurate statement?


How about reading the thread from DF I posted....


"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

  

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Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:28 pm 
 

I see.  So, you would argue that the Wiki entries are biased for what they do not say.  

I was focussing on what they do say.

The discussion I just read was dominated pretty well by cloak and dagger, who made the strongest and and most pertinent points against Wiki's critics.  The others did not seem to understand his points.

But then again, I am not necessarily a partisan of 1st edition.

I would have to read a lot more to see the bias.  So far as I can tell the main criticism seems to be that the Wiki editors do not say that 3rd edition sucks.

I have to agree that a discussion of Castle Greyhawk must include discussion of Castle Zagyg and similar late additions to the canon.

What I perceive is more of a bias in favor of TSR products and against non-TSR products than in favor of 3rd edition.

I would also agree with cloak and dagger that the 1st edition rules were "clunky" in many areas.  I would only add that the same "clunkiness" was what we actually liked about the rules.

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:38 pm 
 

MShipley88 wrote:I see.  So, you would argue that the Wiki entries are biased for what they do not say.  

I was focussing on what they do say.

The discussion I just read was dominated pretty well by cloak and dagger, who made the strongest and and most pertinent points against Wiki's critics.  The others did not seem to understand his points.

But then again, I am not necessarily a partisan of 1st edition.

I would have to read a lot more to see the bias.  So far as I can tell the main criticism seems to be that the Wiki editors do not say that 3rd edition sucks.

I have to agree that a discussion of Castle Greyhawk must include discussion of Castle Zagyg and similar late additions to the canon.

What I perceive is more of a bias in favor of TSR products and against non-TSR products than in favor of 3rd edition.

I would also agree with cloak and dagger that the 1st edition rules were "clunky" in many areas.  I would only add that the same "clunkiness" was what we actually liked about the rules.

Mark   8)


Mark, the problem is not what is on there now for the most part, it is what will be there once it expands.  D&D on Wiki as is obvious right now is pretty limited, so its tough to get a true feel for what happens.  The real problem lies in the bias that will done after it is completed in more detail, because then you will truly be able to see the bias against 1e and for 3e.

With that in mind, I would have to say that saying that the rules are clunky is a matter of personal opinion and it is not rooted in fact.  That all by itself is supposed to go against Wiki's own standards and yet when someone tried to change it so that it wasn't as slanted as it was, they were admonished by the "editor" and the article was changed back to the way that it was.

*<edited in several places, because my original post made no sense at all in places.>  :?


"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche


Last edited by bclarkie on Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  


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Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:01 pm 
 

I've noticed wiki cops recently as well. I had a wiki web page saved to disk, and when I went back to the web, it had been changed. The editor also clearly indicated what he felt the content should be. In particular, he had removed some links that I thought were very helpful.

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Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:26 pm 
 

MShipley88 wrote:I see.  So, you would argue that the Wiki entries are biased for what they do not say.  

I was focussing on what they do say.

The discussion I just read was dominated pretty well by cloak and dagger, who made the strongest and and most pertinent points against Wiki's critics.  The others did not seem to understand his points.

But then again, I am not necessarily a partisan of 1st edition.

I would have to read a lot more to see the bias.  So far as I can tell the main criticism seems to be that the Wiki editors do not say that 3rd edition sucks.

I have to agree that a discussion of Castle Greyhawk must include discussion of Castle Zagyg and similar late additions to the canon.

What I perceive is more of a bias in favor of TSR products and against non-TSR products than in favor of 3rd edition.

I would also agree with cloak and dagger that the 1st edition rules were "clunky" in many areas.  I would only add that the same "clunkiness" was what we actually liked about the rules.

Mark   8)


My biggest problem with the D&D Wiki is that if you arenot part of a hard core circle that have made it their live's duty to police the entry, your contributions will be immediately removed...over and over and over again...until you finally quit out of sheer frustration.  Effectively a small cadre of 3E enthusiasts pretty much control the entry.  Whether for ill or good, this approach is what turns me off of the Wiki experience totally.  They guys may be well meaning, or they may be asshats, problem being they have decided among themselves they are the final authority on the subject, and I thought that was precisely the mindset Wiki was against.  Other than that, honestly, I don't have any gigantic problems with the definitions, except to know that if I ever decided to share my knowledge and post it would be immediately removed.  

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Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:55 pm 
 

The only thing I've ever added to Wikipedia was on this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Arneson

I added the following:
"In 1986, Arneson wrote a new D&D module set in Blackmoor called "The Garbage Pits of Despair", which was published in two parts in Different Worlds magazine issues #42 and #43."

This was last Spring. It's still there. It's such a straight forward statement of fact that I guess it didn't offend too many Wiki police...

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Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:58 pm 
 

zhowar wrote:The only thing I've ever added to Wikipedia was on this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Arneson

I added the following:
"In 1986, Arneson wrote a new D&D module set in Blackmoor called "The Garbage Pits of Despair", which was published in two parts in Different Worlds magazine issues #42 and #43."

This was last Spring. It's still there. It's such a straight forward statement of fact that I guess it didn't offend too many Wiki police...


I am suprised the Wiki police didn't remove it for being arbitrary and unnecessary. :roll:


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Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:27 pm 
 

How does one become a Wiki editor?  Do you just type over whatever someone else has posted?  That sounds like chaos.


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Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:34 pm 
 

MShipley88 wrote:How does one become a Wiki editor?  Do you just type over whatever someone else has posted?  That sounds like chaos.


Yes and no.  Wiki's entries can be created and/or manipualted by anyone, but there is a group of specific volunteers assigned to all these different Wiki groups as "editors".   It kind of works like our VB here works.  The "editors" in question have the final say as to what the articles can say and what they can't say, so if you find yourself in a disagreement with an official Wik "editor", you are pretty much SOL.  You can appeal it to the next level of "editor" who is in charge over that "editor"  in question, but the chances of that person taking your side is likely nil and its becomes not really worth the time to fight it out.


"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

  


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Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:36 pm 
 

Wikipedia is a disaster. It is, with no doubt at all in my mind, the world's classic example of "good intentions, poor execution."

I heartily recommend following a plan I came up with a few months ago: ignore Wikipedia like it's a one-legged hooker with oozing sores. Seriously, what will you be missing? A site where the entry for Pokemon is easily 50 times better than the entry for the Louisiana Purchase? And they have the stones to call that an encyclopedia? It's a sad joke, is what it is.

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Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:36 pm 
 

Yep, just edit - that easy...as long as someone else doesn't happen to live there. It could be some of the more reclusive trolls just hang out at wiki.

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Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:47 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:Wikipedia is a disaster. It is, with no doubt at all in my mind, the world's classic example of "good intentions, poor execution."

I heartily recommend following a plan I came up with a few months ago: ignore Wikipedia like it's a one-legged hooker with oozing sores. Seriously, what will you be missing? A site where the entry for Pokemon is easily 50 times better than the entry for the Louisiana Purchase? And they have the stones to call that an encyclopedia? It's a sad joke, is what it is.

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The Onion tells it like it is


Wikipedia is a disaster because people vandilize it on purpose just to see if someone notices or it is funny to them :?


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Post Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:06 am 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:Wikipedia is a disaster. It is, with no doubt at all in my mind, the world's classic example of "good intentions, poor execution."

I heartily recommend following a plan I came up with a few months ago: ignore Wikipedia like it's a one-legged hooker with oozing sores. Seriously, what will you be missing? A site where the entry for Pokemon is easily 50 times better than the entry for the Louisiana Purchase? And they have the stones to call that an encyclopedia? It's a sad joke, is what it is.


Well, your comparison of the Louisiana Purchase and Pokemon is so true it made me laugh.  Often, definitions of pop culture, obscure historical figures, TV shows, rock stars, etc are very accurate and informative; however, try to find anything useful from entries such as Democracy, France, United States of America; Bill Clinton or George Bush, everyone with a political axe to grind defaces the definition (sometimes thousands of times daily).  It's a gigantic joke.  Wiki is at it's best when you want a really quick look at something that's not important enough for anyone to really care about (I recently, for example, looked up entries for Jericho (the biblical city), Heywood Broun, and the TV show Daybreak; all were reasonably useful and helpful).  Other entries are the very definition of misinformation and chaos.  Take everything there with a grain of salt.

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:38 am 
 

Wiki............ My take on it is this:
I have no desire to spend even an iota of my free time adding valuable content to a site when it could easily be removed or altered by any idiot. I am also not in the business of charity (except with RPG collectors), so I refuse on this basis as well.
I don't even USE it, since the possibility of information being inaccurate is very high.
I rank it somewhere just below MySpace. Virtually useless and a serious time-waster.


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Post Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:17 am 
 

I agree with Mike - Wikipedia can be useful - especially in non-academic/political areas and with the caveat that you cross-check any info. you get there.  
As for time-wasting... youtube is the king there  8O
For example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQiyltvIcEQ

For what a Vicar should really be like  :twisted:


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Post Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:04 am 
 

Deadlord39 wrote:Wiki............ My take on it is this: ...


Am I glad the whole world doesn't think this way.   :wink:

How did this thread turn into a wiki discussion?   :roll:

So back to the LT it is now sitting at slightly below US$1K with 2 days to go.  What is everyones prediction?

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Post Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:56 am 
 

My guess is $1400.

Good luck everyone!   :D


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Post Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:21 am 
 

bombadil wrote:My guess is $1400.

Good luck everyone!   :D


Given David's went for more and mine was around the same value as your prediction I tend to agree.  

Will be interesting to see how hungry people are just after Christmas.  That credit card must be looking pretty full ...  :lol:

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Post Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:35 am 
 

improvstone wrote:
How did this thread turn into a wiki discussion?   :roll:



I had originally asked if there was a good synopsis of the Tomoachan adventure and I cited wiki as having what (appeared) to be a good article on D&D modules, but no substantive description of Tomoachan.

Sorry if I am at fault here for causing the digression.

Keith


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