Pricing Ethics (split from Shady Dealers)
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Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:14 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:

Well, conversely, I've never met you and I'm already fairly certain you're a schmuck.  

Mike B.


Both me and vallhalla games right.  Or did you already forget some of the things that you have written previously about them?

  

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:19 pm 
 

thehiddenone wrote:
What is the point then since it doesn't seem anyone else gets it?


The point is...Who Gives A Shit!

Like I said above:
Kosh Vorlontay wrote:So get it while you can, make a profit while you can, collect it while you can and in the end just bury it with you when you go. At least then in 200+ years when the new civilizations dig you up (like the Egyptians of old) you will be worth more due to the size of your collection.


The people who have the money set the tone for the market, those who don't just shake there fists at the haves and bitch about being a have not.

In the end just enjoy what you have, not what you don't have.

PS Can you say PDF? (Just don't get caught selling it on eBay and get caught from the forum members here, thats what we call a lose-lose situation)


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Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:29 pm 
 

Sea-to-sky-games wrote:I doubt it. Besides, the market is amoral. It has nothing to do with ethics or morality.

(Ok, I admit I skimmed the next four pages.  I'm pretty sure it was random back-and-forth bickering with some solid points in between. ;))

The market is amoral.  The D&D collecting community is not.  That's the difference.  We try our best to protect our own, as well as others newly interested in the hobby.  Period, end of story.  

Tsojconth has been trending upward this year, but it is simply not worth almost twice last year's valuation.  :wink:

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:34 pm 
 

thehiddenone wrote:
Both me and vallhalla games right.  Or did you already forget some of the things that you have written previously about them?


Valhalla Games, Creepy and Titan are all retailers.  They are welcome to post here and refute or condone their various policies (some have done this to varying degrees of success).  STS is an individual, a collector/gamer who has posted an opinion to this forum.  We may agree or disagree, and as a matter of fact despite what you think (calling him a "forum troll") a few others here have also given similar opinions.  Whether or not I agree with STS or any other poster, they are entitled to their opinon on a subject without being summarly bashed and dismissed as a "troll" when all they have done is offer an alternate opinion.  And despite comparing him to Creepy, (a insult of the highest order), he did not post here boasting of changing the entire paradigm of game selling since he is a genius and the rest of us just aren't with the program (as Creepy did).  
  And my opinion of  the gouging seller is well known.  Personally, I think they are taking advantage of the weak in most cases, not a crime but certainly ethically wrong.  But in the long run they make my job and others like me a lot easier.  And in the end they make themselves and their business a lot more unappealing.  I don't see any dichotomy in disliking them yet letting the clueless newbie run wild and overpay if he has a mind to.  
 By saying I've met STS, I merely wanted to get across the point he's not some anonymous evil shill for overpricing retailers, he's simply one of us with a separate opinion.

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:45 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:Well, conversely, I've never met you and I'm already fairly certain you're a schmuck.  


Mike,  please don't sink the discussion down to name calling.  Especially after your last post tried to stop this behaviour.  I know you are better than this  :wink:

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:48 pm 
 

deimos3428 wrote:
(Ok, I admit I skimmed the next four pages.  I'm pretty sure it was random back-and-forth bickering with some solid points in between. ;))

The market is amoral.  The D&D collecting community is not.  That's the difference.  We try our best to protect our own, as well as others newly interested in the hobby.  Period, end of story.  

Tsojconth has been trending upward this year, but it is simply not worth almost twice last year's valuation.  :wink:




I agree, and I will provide that "protection" if for no other reason than in the long run a vibrant, honest community helps my business also.  But let's face it, Cougar has done more cumulative damage to the gamer community than any number of overchargers lumped together, and he runs free as the wind (although an interesting segment of the community has jumped up to warn potential victims of his sneakiness).  But I still fail to see how bashing STS helps one singel newbie not overpay for a woodgrain when he wants that woodgrain come hell or high water.

  Before I was Badmike the big bad reseller  :wink: , I sold a few things on the old AOL forums.  And like probably a lot of us, I didnt' know my way around at first.  And like more than a few of us, I got basically undressed and molested on my first ebay trade/sale. I can remember it to this day, it was an R1 Aid of Falx for an FR5 Savage Frontier and a bit of cash ($10 maybe).  And yes I was the one trading the R1 for the fairly common module I get around 10 bucks for now on ebay.  And not even an ounce of remorse...the seller immediately threw the R1 into his store for $100 after he received it. So 15 years ago I got screwed by an unethical seller, and I learned a lesson. It's not my job to take every newbie by the hand and patiently explain to them that no, that copy of B1 is NOT that hard to find and will certainly command less than $50 the next time it's up for auction/sale.  Sometimes you just gotta stick your hand in the fire, get burned, and move on.

  And, PS, I NEVER did business with that reseller again, and he was quite a fixture on the AOL forums for many years.  So in the long run all he did was deprive himself of many hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars I spent the next few years while accumulating my collection.  Guys like Creepy and Titan and Valhalla, I believe, suffer the same fate in the end.



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Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:52 pm 
 

improvstone wrote:
Mike,  please don't sink the discussion down to name calling.  Especially after your last post tried to stop this behaviour.  I know you are better than this  :wink:


Actually I was trying to be ironic...but re-reading I see that didn't come out that way.  Sometimes what we post doesn't have the same tone as if we had said it.  I apologize if it sounded overly insulting.   :oops:   But comparing STS to Creep was a low, low blow.......I didn't really feel that was called for, and STS certainly didn't deserve being called a forum troll for simply stating his opinion.  But I do apologize for the over reaction.

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:58 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:Unfortunately there are still those on these boards that refuse to recognize reselling of used items as a legitimate business, for whatever misguided and nostalgic reasons, and perhaps hold on to ideals in regard to RPG collectibles far longer than they should.  They get angrier at a reseller gouging prices on an H1 than the multi-national bad guys raping us everyday at the gas pump.  


Nope. I definitely get angrier at the pricing of oil, the taxes the government makes from petrol and the delay in research into cleaner energy sources. Don't get me started on how we are killing the planet we live on.

The beauty of the site is the ability for any buyer to come here first, read about the various sellers and make their own minds up about their practices.  I am sure cougie, creep, titan etc would love to not have this site here.  Too bad. We are here and I encourage anyone who has had bad or good experiences with a seller to list them here.  

With regard to the H1 it wasn't the price gouging that pissed me off.  It was the (unsuccessful) attempt to try and corner the market.

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:02 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:I still fail to see how bashing STS helps one singel newbie not overpay for a woodgrain when he wants that woodgrain come hell or high water.

Oh, sorry Mike.  I missed that bit and don't condone bashing people unless I thought of it first.  (I didn't read about four pages, remember?) :)

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:06 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:

Actually I was trying to be ironic...but re-reading I see that didn't come out that way.  Sometimes what we post doesn't have the same tone as if we had said it.  I apologize if it sounded overly insulting.   :oops:   But comparing STS to Creep was a low, low blow.......I didn't really feel that was called for, and STS certainly didn't deserve being called a forum troll for simply stating his opinion.  But I do apologize for the over reaction.

Mike B.




.. we should all remember it is the new year.  Have some beers and just chill  8)



I do agree with you on that point.  To me it is quite simple. If someone wants to try and sell an item for an over inflated price go for it.  Good luck to you!  However, don't be surprised if someone points out that you are trying to rip people off.  You want to sell on the internet then you have to come to realise that the internet is a great way to disseminate information  (both good and bad) to a large number of people very quickly.



Plus I am glad we have buyers that look out for other buyers on ebay.  Ebay certainly don't do enough to protect either buyer or seller.  The feedback system is a joke.  The number of fake auctions and second chance offers I have seen because of ebay is a sad joke. :evil:

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:08 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:Actually I was trying to be ironic...but re-reading I see that didn't come out that way.  Sometimes what we post doesn't have the same tone as if we had said it.  I apologize if it sounded overly insulting.   :oops:   But comparing STS to Creep was a low, low blow.......I didn't really feel that was called for, and STS certainly didn't deserve being called a forum troll for simply stating his opinion.  But I do apologize for the over reaction.

Mike B.

Is it that far off?
creepydealer wrote:I do have a store Adam. I rely upon watching other sales, as well as what I would be willing to pay for something as a collector myself. This is important to me, because everyting is worth what a ready, willing, and able buyer wil pay for an item. While you may not pay for aomething, someone else may. I would refer to the Q1 currently on auction, last I saw approaching $90. Another member here is in fact one of the bidders, outbid above $80. The Treasure hunt, preparing to close above $100. I personally sold 3 copies of Dawn of the Emporors in the last month for $90 each. I've sold many Gaz series on Ebay and off $80 and up. Much higher valuation than many thought possible. I didn't drag these people in and hold a gun to their head Brian. None of these sales are doing that. Anyone who cannot see the market trend is simply closing their eyes to it. Unfortunately, I think some people don't want the market to grow, don't want the values to increase. Thats nuts. This trend shows the strength of the gaming market, and of the D&D brand name. Any serious business person in the business would be a foll not to capitalize on it. I will continue to do just that.
Sea-to-sky-games wrote:No one is forcing anyone to buy anything. If I'm a buyer, then its real value is (at least) the amount of money I pay for it. If I'm an investor, then correctly assessing the market is important.. but investors who make bad decisions reflects only on themselves not some third party.
Sea-to-sky-games wrote:Someone else remarked that a bidder paid "too much" for a Tsoj, saying they bid far more than what it is "worth". The module is "worth" whatever someone paid for it. Period.

The only difference that I can see is that creep tried to put this into practice by funding it with his own money where our new friend here has not.  then when you see comments like this one
Sea-to-sky-games wrote:Respectfully, there's no such thing as a "fair price" or "fair shipping". Do you mean "average" price or "average shipping cost"?

Maybe some firms do better than others by not being "average" -- it certainly seems the case for the seller in question. Just my two cents.

it kind of makes you wonder what is going on.

  

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:59 pm 
 

thehiddenone wrote:it kind of makes you wonder what is going on.

We're just going to have to have one of those agree to disagree. STS is dealing in the theoretical, certainly the subject is fair game for discussion without one being bashed?  Creep not only put overpricing into action, he bragged about his reselling genius and basically called everyone morons for not realizing D&D prices were soon going to rise to stratospheric levels so paying much over their "value" was a legitimate business practice. I think one of those two could have been dealt with using comments a little less inflammatory than "forum troll".  Heaven help the next time I disagree with the majority here, I expect a good tar and feathering....

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:06 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:Heaven help the next time I disagree with the majority here, I expect a good tar and feathering....


Mike, I now know what type of dungeons you like running  :lol:

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:09 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:
We're just going to have to have one of those agree to disagree. STS is dealing in the theoretical, certainly the subject is fair game for discussion without one being bashed?  Creep not only put overpricing into action, he bragged about his reselling genius and basically called everyone morons for not realizing D&D prices were soon going to rise to stratospheric levels so paying much over their "value" was a legitimate business practice. I think one of those two could have been dealt with using comments a little less inflammatory than "forum troll".  Heaven help the next time I disagree with the majority here, I expect a good tar and feathering....

Mike B.


Forum troll is a term for someone who starts trouble on a forum for his or her own enjoyment and for no reason at all. In my opinion it is far less inflamatory and much less personal than being called a schmuck.   You did apologize for that remark, but it doesn't change the fact that you resorted to personally insulting me even though I never personally insulted you and in light of the fact you misunderstood the meaning of what I was saying.  By saying this, I am not looking for another apology, I am merely pointing out that you misunderstood what was being said and you still resorted to the same behavior that you were accusing me of and belittling me for. I leave it at that, I have no further need to discuss this topic.

  

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:20 pm 
 

thehiddenone wrote:
Forum troll is a term for someone who starts trouble on a forum for his or her own enjoyment and for no reason at all. In my opinion it is far less inflamatory and much less personal than being called a schmuck.   You did apologize for that remark, but it doesn't change the fact that you resorted to personally insulting me even though I never personally insulted you and in light of the fact you misunderstood the meaning of what I was saying.  By saying this, I am not looking for another apology, I am merely pointing out that you misunderstood what was being said and you still resorted to the same behavior that you were accusing me of and belittling me for. I leave it at that, I have no further need to discuss this topic.


I only hope the last sentence is the truth....but in my experience those who state they are "never going to comment on this again" only continue to pontificate ad nauseum...

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:23 pm 
 

Once upon a time, evil dwarfs were living in hills, forests and mounds. They were stumpy, misshapen, humpbacked, with a long nose, long hair and a long tail.  Trolls were inclined to thieving, and fond of carrying off children. They would substitute one of their own offspring for that of a human mother. They were called "hill-people", and they were especially averse to noise, from a recollection of the time when god Thor used to fling his hammer after them.  Not all trolls were evil!. Some trolls were helping people.  Some trolls were only playing games.  But, evil trolls were the one that kids were most afraid of.  Some trolls were small, other were giants.

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:28 pm 
 

Wouldnt this be weird. What if there was a becketts like company out to make a AD&D trading card magazine.

 

This company could be Hasbro or Wizards or a relativly small time shop aka Mikes or Trolls and ?



Name the price, corner the market on goods they say are rare etc etc. Now this may tick someone off but what if foul were to sell the acaeum and all its rights to this magazine etc etc. They could shut the site down and all its rights could be lost in court.



A small fortune could be made by smart folks with a current bankroll.



This company...ACAEUM... is already well respected and somewhat an authority via aka ebay.



It makes me wonder in some kind of strange way if fouls selling of his collection for 35,000 and non of the IE small timers on here could afford that and a bigger fish would swim in and buy the acaeum and its rights and truly lock us in or out..



This thread was brought on by the shady sellers split thread.



Yo!

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:33 pm 
 

yo! wrote:Wouldnt this be weird. What if there was a becketts like company out to make a AD&D trading card magazine.
 
This company could be Hasbro or Wizards or a relativly small time shop aka Mikes or Trolls and ?

Name the price, corner the market on goods they say are rare etc etc. Now this may tick someone off but what if foul were to sell the acaeum and all its rights to this magazine etc etc. They could shut the site down and all its rights could be lost in court.

A small fortune could be made by smart folks with a current bankroll.

This company...ACAEUM... is already well respected and somewhat an authority via aka ebay.

It makes me wonder in some kind of strange way if fouls selling of his collection for 35,000 and non of the IE small timers on here could afford that and a bigger fish would swim in and buy the acaeum and its rights and truly lock us in or out..

This thread was brought on by the shady sellers split thread.

Yo!
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Heavy drug users should not be allowed to post on public forums.  Retard.

  
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