Sea-to-sky-games wrote:I wish! Frankly, I would never pay more than $100 for one of them. If I paid a bit more, then it would be only to turn it over quickly on eBay and make a profit.You guys to an excellent job -- as if you guys don't get enough of praise around here. I don't know what makes you think I would feel the opposite.
Sea-to-sky-games wrote:Someone else remarked that a bidder paid "too much" for a Tsoj, saying they bid far more than what it is "worth". The module is "worth" whatever someone paid for it. Period.
Sea-to-sky-games wrote:If I'm a buyer, then its real value is (at least) the amount of money I pay for it
Sea-to-sky-games wrote:Unless you qualify "worth" by saying something like "assigned worth held by most people who collect TSR goodies", "worth" is precisely what one person is willing to pay for it. Moreover, even if one qualified such a statement, why would firms wish to price in this manner? It seems only effecient that they sell the items to those who value the item the most.
nevcoup wrote:I am not arguing that wild price fluctuations occur, nor that they are frustrating. I am saying the exact opposite. I'll tr to explain, as I have been both both ends of this dynamic in other collectibles:I began collecting silver coins (quarters, dimes, etc...) in the 70's. I used my lawn mowing money to do this. Unfortunately, I was buying these coins during the time that the Hunt brothers had the silver market cornered, and had run silver up to 40-50 an ounce. One year later the price plummeted to around 5 an ounce. One lesson learned (shady people profit on collectibles). I collected baseball cards for over 20 years and saw both ups and downs. I have bought high, bought low, and occasionally sold when high and when low. My point, one last time, is that the very idea of "true price" in a collectible market is mistaken. If 100,000 former players get nostalgic about their youth this year, then prices will soar. If as few as 1,000 collectors lose interest this year, then prices drop. So, which is the "true price?" The obvious answer is (I guess) "They all are, for their time." I would agree with this because it highlights the fact that prices change in collectible markets, and the way they change is through buyers.I already said that I am new to this. Indeed, I'm really only trying to relive my youth (and revolting againt 3.0/3.5!!!) by purchasing these items. However, this IS a collectible market, and collectible markets operate according to the same principles. Some folks here seem to be acting as though the prices of modules were regulated by the FCC...
Didn't ealier in this thread several times say that they are worth at least $1895?
Sea-to-sky-games wrote:To that person, and probably to a few others, yes. As a result, it would only seem profitable for a seller to look first for values in that ballpark when trying to unload it. If no one comes along, then the seller may wish to lower their price.But to me, its a bunch of old pieces of paper that hold comparably very little value to me. Why would I pay $1000 for something I value only $100? I would only do so if I were an investor or looking to turn a profit... but not as a buyer or collector.I've merely argued that value is always subjective. When you agree to pay a price for something, it must be "worth" what you paid for it. Otherwise you wouldn't buy it.Now, how this relates to the manner in which some sites wish to ascribe "market values" to items is another thread entirely (and to which I have been silent).
Perhaps you have misjudged this site. A vast majority of the people who post on this site are not investors. They are collectors of a game that is very near and dear to their hearts.
Sea-to-sky-games wrote:Which is precisely why I find it odd that people who value things much more or much less than the average user get some sort of shock treatment around here. They are collectors. They pay what they feel the item is worth... to them. Why should they or I care what everyone else thinks? This would only be a concern if the item was to be resold or the object of profit... which seems to belie your comment.
bclarkie wrote:The problem is, and you may find this out over time, the D&D market is unique from any of the larger collectible markets. This is due in part to the niche market that actually collects it. D&D even in its heyday back in the late 70's and early 80's could not and would not come anywhere close in potential volume of things that most other people collect. This is why you see less eratic buying prices/selling prices. Occasionally something comes up that raises some eyebrows and 99 times out 100 its either a buyer new to Ebay or one with very little or no D&D buying activity. A large majority of the folks who are going to collect D&D stuff already do so or have done so and are gone. That may sound like a crazy statement until you realize just how small the potential buying base is. Ebay has brought out a vast majority of these people over the last 8 years or so.
nevcoup wrote:You may be right (though I'm not entirely buying it ). However, my point, my only point, is in keeping with the Acaeum valuation thread and the article on the status of this hobby: there is NO "true value" for any of these items. The only reason I ventured onto the boards to say this is my many memories of running a baseball card shop in the 90's and seeing the crushed looks on hundreds of young boys and men's faces when they came in to see what their cherished cards were worth (some of them had been paid well for just a year orso earlier) only to find that the price guide showed a sharp drop in the prices (sometimes 90%!). They were bewildered for many reasons. Some thought that prices always go up on collectibles. Some felt hurt and taken advantage of by the person who sold them the card just a few years before (even when they bought the card at guide prices). Some even seemed to feel as though their dreams and childhood were devalued! I would go blue in the face trying to explain the ups and downs of collectibles, the way that values are set, and the fact that their cherished items should be no less cherished just because a book says it is worth 50% less than what they paid for it 3 years earlier (at book price). Maybe I came off the wrong way in my post. I really just wanted to make sure that people are aware of this ugly aspect of collectibles: modules, Honus Wagner cards, X-Men comics, First print Alice in Wonderlands, and Tsoj's ARE worth what they are worth to you. The only "objective" price associated with these cherished (and wonderful) items is the price you will get from a pulp paper recycler....
those very same dumb people
Sea-to-sky-games wrote:All this means is people value things differently and it would be stupid for a store or seller not to notice the difference. As such, there's nothing shady about pricing accordingly.
nevcoup wrote:Then I'll remain silent about it. I have lurked here for a long time, so I know the names (including you) of the folks who know their stuff. I am just skeptical that this market has somehow transcended the vicissitudes of all other collectible markets. Heck, even markets that are not prone to over printing and flooding (e.g., depression glass, old paper money, antique furniture, etc...) ebb and flow, sometimes to the extreme. Nevertheless, I am happy I finally broke in on a thread and hope I didn't come off on the wrong foot. Really, my motivation has just been to sound a warning on collectibles. If I am wrong about this market, then I'll switch my handle to Village Idiot (might be fun to do anyway ).Well met, all! (as an aside, I HOPE you are right about the general stability of this market because I have a long way to go before I complete my collection and I'd hate to be buying items when they are at a freak all-time high...)
If that was really the case then why don't all stores(and I mean grocery stores, gas stations Wal-Mart, etc.) Just either have huge prices or run auctions all day. I mean they could really be screwing themselves out of good money. There might be some buyer out there that values that pack of toliet paper to the tune of $100.
Store owners(both on and off Ebay) who have ridiculous prices believe that the marketplace is a lottery there for them to get rich in hopes some fool and his money will stroll along. This is what makes them shady.
bclarkie wrote:I do believe though that the market will continualy(albiet slowly for the most part) rise over time to a certain point. That said, I also believe that this market in the distant future will (with the exception of a very few select items such as the woodgrain sets due to their huge part in the history of RPGs) slowly start to fade as the folks who now collect this stuff move on to that big D&D adventure in the sky.